The Double "DUH!?!" Post

[Guest Walter]

Obviously, we as a team needed to improve offensively and defensively. The question is what side of the ball we needed to improve upon more.

For the season we were the 19 worst scoring team and the 25th worst scored upon team. Specifically, we scored 94 PPG and allowed 98.3 PPG. Worse than that we were the 28th worst defense in terms of points scored against for the first half of the season! Even if we examine the whole season including the defensive turnaround much attributed to Ira's defense, we clearly see the need to improve our defense more than our offense relative to other NBA teams as it is our defense that was the 5th worst for the season and second worse for the 1st half of the season in the NBA!

However, during the second half (the last 42 games NOT the games following the All-star game), much of it spent with Ira as part of the starting lineup, the Atlanta Hawks were the 15th best defensive team (allowing but 96 PPG!) and the 23rd best offensive team in terms of scoring! Our leap-frogging THIRTEEN teams in terms of points against in the first and second half of the season showed up in our record, including a 19-17 record with Ira in the starting lineup.

How about FG%?

While the Hawks shot essentially the same FG%, or .1% higher during the SECOND HALF of the season, they held their opponenets to a .7% lower FG%! The rankings relative to other teams shows a drop from 25th worst defense in terms of opponent's FG% to 15th best!

We were the second worse team in the NBA in terms of scoring the first half of the season and we were the 25th worst team in terms of opponent's FG% and scoring FOR THE SEASON (including the stats compiled during Ira's 30 or so game tenure, meaning our FG% against ranking for the season was significantly worse the first half of the season when our 2nd half of the season, top 15 ranking was not included)!

How you can be the 2nd worst in something and insist that something is not what your team needs the most work on is infantile. I don't feel like spending anymore time on this it's so stupid. We needed help on both sides of the ball but with Ira, Theo, and even Ham coming off the bench it seems we have thrice the defensive impact coming than BD is on offense. Any significant change in outcome this season should similarly be attributed to the change in our defensive ability.

W

[Gray Mule]

Yep. You're right. Hawks need to improve on both

offense and defense over what we did last season. I think

that we have.

While Newbie did set the tone for our second half

improvement on defense, don't forget that we had some

veteran help from those returning from the I.R. in the

second half.

Theo R. will greatly improve our defense, no question

about that. Nazr has a tough year's experience now that

will help him, no doubt. Added upper body strength and

not having to carry the load at center will be a plus too.

Jason T. at the point and not at the 2 improves his part

on defense. Having Theo behind them will be a plus

for Big Dawg and SAR. Fans that post from Big Dawg's

former team report that he is a much better defensive

player that the media gives him credit for. We shall see.

With the addition of Big Dawg as a proven scorer, we

should get a few more points than before. Dickau is

a green rookie but is believed to be a scorer which can

relieve Jason T. and keep the scoing going.

Then, we add a defensive hustler on our latest signing

which everyone seems to be pleased with. We have a

lot to look foreward to in the upcoming season.

Aside to Walter: Our football team plays this friday

night at W.C.U. See you there?? Ask the debuty with

the Jackets to point out Gray Mule. He knows me.

Gray Mule

[Diesel]

[Diesel]

Dallas were 28th ranked on Defense and Number 1 on offense.

Sacramento was 19th ranked on Defense and NUMBER 2 on offense.

Those are your top 2 records in the WHOLE NBA.

That being the case, what should we have done?

While Walter has to write a whole bunch of BS to try to sway you to ignore the truth... I will let the truth speak for itself.

Dallas: Ranked 28th on defense, 1st on Offense. Record 57-25

Sactown: Ranked 19th on defense, 2nd on Offense. Record 61-21

I'll give you a bonus.

Philadelphia: Ranked 2nd on defense, 26th on offense. Record 43-39.

Toronto: Rank 4th on defense, 25th on offense. Record 42-40.

Again, I ask... IN TODAY'S NBA, which is more important... Offense or defense. The facts have spoken.

[cyman3]

i say ignore the numbers... a W is a W

if we are 29th in D, 16th in O... and have a winning record, so be it...

as long as we are winning!!!

[Nique21]

Yeah, I agree with Cyman, winning is the bottom line. You can produce bad numbers against the bad teams and still win. Also, when you have been beaten for 3 quarters of the game and you find a way to win at the end, that is what counts most. Regardless who is blocking shots, getting rebounds, making steals, or even scoring the hoops, when you break it all down, winning is not everything, its the only thing.

[BlackHawkDown]

I dont really much see your point. Sometimes stats give a very different picture than reality. Taking an average does not account for major deviations, which corrupt the overall sample. The fact is Theo gives a shot blocking presence which will immediately lower opponents shooting percentage. BD gives a desperately needed third option which will affect scoring late in the game. You never accounted for the fact that the #1 option on offense was in a new system and that the #2 was only just becoming consistent on a game to game basis. Looking at averages doesn't always tell the story. Good D beats Good Offense, but Good D and No Offense never wins. JT will be a better point, SAR will be more comfortable. and BD will free everyone up , esp. Reef. IRA wasn't the impact player many posters make him out to be, fact is when Ira was playing we didnt have to worry about sissyballing Kukoc giving up 30 shots to some scrub SF. Fact is getting rid of Kukoc and adding Big Dog in and of itself will make the Hawks better.

Great analysis. Must be that West Carolina U. Education.

[Boondocks]

Interesting stats, however the regular season is different from the playoffs. Hawks better be good at D if they want to go deep into the playoffs, have any interesting stats on that?

Didn't the Kings almost get eliminated in the first ro9und against the Jazz because the Jazz played better D?

[Diesel]

But in order to be able to win, you have to recognize how you are winning. Don't just be happy with the W. Try to figure out what you have to do to get the W. IN our case, it's get better offensively. IN today's NBA, defense is not a neccessity to win (look at Dallas).

[Diesel]

Defense is not as important as offense.

Sac-town did get past utah and went deep into the playoffs.

Dallas was Stopped by Sac-Town.

But most people's favorite the Lakes only ranked 10th in defense.

Ahead of them were Miami, Philly, San antonio, Toronto, NJ, Detroit, Charlotte, Portland, and Boston. They didn't go to deep... Save NJ.

[cyman3]

hey DIESEL, u say LAKERS were 10th in defense.

If u layout all the numbers with the teams... are PPG's numbers off by a DECIMAL? or is it a significant difference?

Note: Players will play harder vs LAKERS than the BULLS. A harder CONFERENCE (western) or schedule can totally screw up calculations...

just my opinion

[Guest Walter]

First, I don't know how you ranked defense, but if you did so by using merely PPG then you are not only WRONG to do so but oblivious to the arguments you are responding to!

Notice that I used FG% as well. Double DUH! That's the heading's title! The double part alludes to the fact that FG% and PPG relative to the NBA's other teams reflect the importance of defense for the Hawks.

Double DUH, Diesel!

Sacramento played the second fastest basketball if not the fastest basketball in the NBA! How many shot attempts do you think the opposition got? Either the most or second most shot attempts. The same for their offense. What was their FG% offensively. I suspect it was good because they were the second best team in the NBA, but was it the 2nd best FG% in the NBA?

To say that Sac didn't play better than the 19th best defense is ludicrious! In fact, it undoubtedly had a top 10 defense! Similarly with regards to offense. They just played at 78 RPMs and not 33, Dumbass!

Truth is the EC is entirely different than the WC and last I looked we were in the East. The western Conference teams allow their opposition more shot ops which leads to more scoring for they and their opposition. Was LA only the 10th best defensive team? Hell no they were better than that. The fact that we were SO GD HORRIBLE in terms of defense, PPG defense especially, despite playing in the EC speaks even greater volumes about our defensive ineptness sans Ira (and Theo).

The two teams you cited, Dallas and Sac, both are far more talented, far more talented offensively, and play an entirely different type of offense than we are capable of playing due to the abilities and limitations of our star personel. The type of offense employed by the speedsters of the already speedier WC is one that piles up points and allows for many more opponent FG opportunities (HELLO?!? Where's the opponent's against FG%, McFly!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?) but one we are not suited for! SAR is not a run & gun Pf, Big Dawg is not a run & gun Sf, and YOURS is a miserable excuse for an argument.

Come back with (against) FG%s and reasons why AND H-O-W the Hawks should model themselves after Dallas or keep your tail between your legs.

W

[Guest Walter]

Boston 3rd, SA 5th, NJ 6th, Hornets 7th,

Considering we were 28th in terms of defensivve FG% for the first half of the season (sans Newble and Theo) and a decent 19th for the season in terms of offensive FG%, I'd say, as anyone who can count would, that even if offense and defense were equally important, defense is MUCH more an issue for US than offense.

Start Big Dawg but start Newble and Theo also. It takes two top tier defenders to turn around a 28th ranked defense and only one offensive player to turn around a 19th ranked offense.

Double DUH!

W

[BlackHawkDown]

Walter You talk about me insulting other posters, because I called people Pete Stan or Lon. But I never stooped so lo as to call someone a dumbass. It just goes to show your lack of knowledge about the sports leads to you using profanity when someone calls you out. Diesel may post stupid trades from time to time but calling him a dumbass is going way too far. I dont think calling other posters by profanities should be tolerated so I'm asking you to grow up. Diesel makes more sense than you, save those stupid JT trades, so please "... dont talk shhh just listen".

PS. " Yall youngsters cant hurt me better just watch and observe me and learn how to earn better I burn cheddar" - Jay Z 2001

GOOOO WCU !!!!!! Walter is a scholar!!!!!!!!

- sorry MRHonline, no disrespect to your wife

[Boondocks]

You're missing my point, D is important to get far into the playoffs, any defensive minded team will be able to hold it down and play slugball if necessary to in the game. You should look at regular season game stats, more how a team plays during the playoffs.

Yes Sac got passed the Jazz, but they had to play tight D and barely squeezed through the first round. It was a perfect warmup for them, afterwhich they annihilated the Mavs.

[Guest Walter]

BHD, go diss another white player or coach. You aren't "good" for much else.

However, your statement that "Diesel makes more sense, save those stupid JT trades" is hilarious given you have laughed at him for his Kobe comments (I agree), reacted the same to many if not most others, and given the fact that all he does is post stupid trades (so what good is "making more sense" .0000000000000001% of the time?).

It isn't enough to like someone because you hate someone else for them calling you on your [censored]. Grow up? Does that mean like you? And become what? A racist? I think not. I'll respect players and coaches regardless of color. If I hate, it will be deserved.

W

P.S.

Diesel and I have called each other names for many posts for many years. We really shouldn't but I hope he doesn't take it too seriously as I don't from him. If he should, I apologize. Actually, I apologize, whether or not he takes it too seriously. I don't apologize for calling you on your [censored], BHD. I could choose a different approach and I encourage others here with the same concerns to do so, but you need to see your predjudice and bias for what it is.

W

[Diesel]

First Walter, explain why PPG is wrong to use? Isn't the ultimate mark of if a team stops another team how they stop them from scoring??

I mean, Sacramento loss game six to the Lakers after playing a really good defensive game. The problem was that the Lakers made it to the charity stripe 27 times!! Defensive FG% doesn't account for that...

BUT

Since that's your weapon of choice....

You mentioned that Lakers and Sactown... However,

Philly = #4. Record 42-40

Miami = #2. Record 36-46

Dallas = #19. Record 57-25

So again, your argument still doesn't hold true at all. Defense is not as important as offense. The median for offensive PPG for the NBA is 95 ppg. That means that if your team cannot muster up 95+ points then more than likely your team will lose. Dallas proved that defense is not that important by increasing the tempo of the game and just OUTSCORING their opponents. Same for Sac-Town. So regaurdless of what stat you like to use, it will always come back to OFFENSE being dominant in this NBA... If it were not the case, Miami would be the best team in basketball (or atleast a playoff team).