The Welfare mentality of some H. Fans

[Diesel]

There's a welfare mentality of some Hawks fans. Billy Knight created it a while back.

Back when he traded Grob for a draft pick... Then traded Nazr for an ending contract.. Then traded Shareef, Theo, and DD for ending contracts. Then Last year he traded JT/Hendu for Walker/Delk then traded Walker for a pick and ending contracts.

The welfare mentality is that the Hawks are:

1. Supposed to be poor.

2. Supposed to trade talent away for Nothing or Capspace or picks.

3. Supposed to trust wholeheartedly in every potential star that BK picks.

The difference between today and those other years is that today, we have spent 70 million on JJ. When we did that, we ended the restart process.

Now we have something to build around.

Al plays very well with JJ. They have good chemistry.

Hawks fans ought to leave those welfare mentality behind and start to think about actually having a team that tries to win.

Therefore you shouldn't trade Al to make room for potential... Because truth be known, you don't know if potential will ever pan out.

Wait til potential does pan out, then find a suitable trade.. But until such time, its only a foolish move to trade just to move Al.

[Buzzard]

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The difference between today and those other years is that today, we have spent 70 million on JJ. When we did that, we ended the restart process.

Now we have something to build around.

Al plays very well with JJ. They have good chemistry.

Hawks fans ought to leave those welfare mentality behind and start to think about actually having a team that tries to win.

Therefore you shouldn't trade Al to make room for potential... Because truth be known, you don't know if potential will ever pan out.

Wait til potential does pan out, then find a suitable trade.. But until such time, its only a foolish move to trade just to move Al.

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Lightning is about to strike twice! This will be the 2nd time I am in total agreement with Diesel in the last couple of weeks...We have two solid young scorers in Al and JJ. Very different from each other, yet they compliment each other almost perfectly.

We have also acquired four very talented players via the draft in Salim, Marvin, Chilz, and Smoove. These six players are all young and hungry. We have nothing to loose by holding onto them and watching them become a solid nucleus to build around.

They make a lot of mistakes (not all of them their fault) but what do you expect .... even the great ones such as Jordan, Bird, Magic etc... made their share of knuckle headed moves over the first couple of years.

They are all good players and appear to be solid citizens as well, with no baggage that will be a detriment to the team. We are only a couple of players and a couple of years away (yep two years) from making some real serious noise.

[Diesel]

One who wants to leave the welfare line behind.

This mentality is only to those who say move Al to make room.

I believe if we signed Al to a resonable contract, we can keep Al until one of these other players stepped up.

My question.

Why didn't Detroit Move Ben Wallace or Move Rasheed to make room for Darko. Surely Darko has the potential to be a much better offensive player than Ben Wallace. I mean, Ben's offense is anemic... Plus Darko has the potential to be just as good offensively... BUT why didn't Joey D. See this and say, let's move Ben so that Darko can get more time.

Or maybe he did do that when he let Okur go. Looking back.. Do you think it was smart to let Okur go to make room for Darko??

Do you think it was a mistake for LAC to not trade Odom to make room for Miles and Maggette?

How is it working out in Boston.. They let Antoine Walker go in order to make room for Al Jefferson...

Bottom line. Hold on to talent until there is a reason to trade it.

[TheRedStripes]

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Now we have something to build around.

Al plays very well with JJ. They have good chemistry.

Hawks fans ought to leave those welfare mentality behind and start to think about actually having a team that tries to win.

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Al Harrington is not a player to build a team around. JJ isn't a franchise player either, but the combination of the 2 is still not potent enough to build a team around, unless you mean build around them by somehow finding a true superstar player to play with them.

Harrington scores 19 ppg...he probably gives up near that much a game with his crappy defensive play. He can't guard 4's or 3's, he is basically just a complete liability on the defensive end. For a player of his size his shot blocking ability is atrocious. He looks like he should be kind of athletic with his build, but he has no hops. It almost looks to me like he is playing with lead soles on his shoes.

Smoove and Marvin are both going to be better than Harrington very soon. They are both far more athletic, and they both play better defense. Honestly...I think if they traded Harrington now the combination of Smoove, Marvin, and Chill at the forward spots would be just as competitive. Last year when Harrington was out, Chill and Smoove stepped their games up. I think Al is actually impeding their progress by taking the majority of the minutes and touches.

I think Billy Knight is still looking to find the Franchise player to build the team around. I'm sure he hoped it would be Marvin, but that might be a stretch from what Marvin has shown thus far, though im sure Marvin is going to be solid, and all around a better player than Harrington. Trading Harrington for a draft pick would only be worth it if it was for a lottery pick so the Hawks could take Rondo.

Chicago wants him, so I would trade him to the bulls for the higher of the 2 picks they have in this years draft.

[joannes3000]

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One who wants to leave the welfare line behind.

Bottom line. Hold on to talent until there is a reason to trade it.

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I couldn't agree more. There's no more reason to hit reset by ditching Al for more potential. Let our forwards continue maturing - seeing as how the Joshes (if you want to count Chillz as a forward) plus Marvin have an underwhelming 3 or so years of NBA experience - and keep Al plugged in there until potential catches up with reality.

[exodus]

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Why didn't Detroit Move Ben Wallace or Move Rasheed to make room for Darko. Surely Darko has the potential to be a much better offensive player than Ben Wallace.

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Detroit has enough sense to realize that the Wallaces are the key to their team because of DEFENSE. They were a 50 win team when they drafted Darko, while the Hawks were a 13 win team when they drafted Marvin.

That is one of the most moronic comparisons I have seen, but I have to say I am not surprised.

Since you have been so far off on your predictions about the Hawks it doesn't surprise me that you are so far off now. You are trying to keep continuity on a 10 win team, alone in last place for the second straight year.

Teams in last place need to make changes so they won't be in last place any more. Priority number one should be to end the layup drill that the Hawks opponents have every game. Getting rid of Harrington is a big step to correcting that problem.

[Diesel]

If I can just take your thoughts to this thought.

The Hawks acquire a C that can play post defense. Let's say they get 2 a vet and a young c. Let's say they get Larmarcus Aldridge and Toni Battie in the offseason.

Would you still think that it was worth it to move Al?

About Smoove and Marvin getting better than Al. That hasn't happened Yet. In fact, in Marvin's case, I have seen no signs that he will other than the HOPE that is passed around daily on this board. Hope. Hope that says.. In three years, Marvin will be better.

Well, let's keep Al until either:

Marvin is ready

or

We find a great trade.

Point is just like Webber, Dirk, Pierce, and others who are not great defensive players, we can still find value in Al's offense if we add some defensive pieces.

[Diesel]

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Teams in last place need to make changes so they won't be in last place any more.

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This is a welfare mind set. We need to make changes just to do something. Nevermind that we have been highly competitive against everyone we have played with the exception of the first Washington game and the Phoenix, Miami games.

I mean really.. from night to night, I can truly say that the Hawks can win. There's no team that we have played that I have said during the game in some point, there is no way we can beat this team. That's a lot of progress from last yr and the year before.

But the Welfare mind says... Start over again.

"Teams in last place need to make changes so they won't be in last place any more."

- Exodus... welfare minded.

[exodus]

"Teams in last place shouldn't make changes to get better"

-Diesel

"The Hawks can win 10 straight games"

-Diesel

"They Hawks can make the playoffs"

-Diesel

"The Hawks can shoot 50% from 3 the rest of the year"

-Diesel

[Lascar78]

"The Hawks will win 40 games in 05-06"

- Diesel

"Belkin will get $300 million for his share of the hawks/thrashers/Phillips"

- Diesel

[exodus]

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"Belkin will get $300 million for his share of the hawks/thrashers/Phillips"

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WTF?!

[Lascar78]

oh yeah man

Diesel thinks Belkin will get $300 million

[exodus]

I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

When the Hawks went on their winning streak they were shooting 50% from 3. I mentioned that they wouldn't be able to sustain that type of shooting and Diesel was like,

"Why not. Just because nobody has done it doesn't mean the Hawks can't do it. That is pure BS."

The fact that no team even shot over 40% from 3 last year couldnt dissuade him from the belief that the Hawks could continue to shoot 50% from 3.

[lifelong]

with Al, don't we basically have another 'reef on our hands. a good player, but someone you can't build a contender around?

[TheRedStripes]

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with Al, don't we basically have another 'reef on our hands. a good player, but someone you can't build a contender around?

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yes...

[exodus]

Actually Reef was/is better than Al.

[Nicholasp27]

it's not about making room for marvin/smoove

it's about paying a guy 10mil/year when he's a complimentary piece...he will NOT lead us to contention and we also have to choose a center that will make up for his faults (kinda like trying to find someone that would compliment jt at guard...we all know how well that goes)

if we could resign him for 8mil/year it's not worth it

[Diesel]

Read it...

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it's not about making room for marvin/smoove

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The majority of Hawksquawk disagrees with you...

[chillzatl]

Darko was playing behind a DPOY in Ben and an All-star caliber player in Rasheed. Al is not on the same level as either of those guys. That's not a knock against him, it is just a fact.

We should resign Al unless we find a deal for a legit C or PG. If we find either of those, it would be utter foolishness to not trade him. Simply because we have nothing else that anyone wants and our prospects for getting one of those players another way are slim.

[chillzatl]

as I said in a reply in that thread, you really need to be able to select two options. Nobody here would suggest trading Al SIMPLY to make room for other players. The entire concept of "making room" was dependent on us getting a PG or C who helps balance our team.

You konw as well as I do that few if any people who picked that option in the poll meant it any other way.