Insider Request: Marvin Williams or Chris Paul

[WraithSentinel]

I don't know if its ok here to request an insider article. It talk about Marvin vs Paul. Here is a brief part of the article. If some one can post it. Feel free to do so.

Marvin vs Paul

Marvin Williams or Chris Paul?

That question, unfortunately, is likely to hang over Williams and the Hawks for much of the rookie forward's career. While Atlanta has struggled to get consistent point guard play, Paul unexpectedly has the Hornets in playoff contention and could snag an All-Star berth. As Chad Ford notes in his column today, Atlanta was one of the teams that passed on Paul in the 2005 draft. Meanwhile, Williams is averaging a modest 6.8 points and 4.5 rebounds per game off the bench for Atlanta.

But hold the comparisons right there.

"You can't compare," said Hawks coach Mike Woodson. "Because Chris is a point guard and Marvin is a 3, sometimes he plays 4. They're totally different games. Chris has played a lot more minutes than Marvin has played, so therefore his numbers are a lot better than what Marvin's are. Eventually Marvin's numbers will go the other way."

[shock]

Hawks are banking on Williams' potentialBy John Hollinger

ESPN Insider

Archive

Marvin Williams or Chris Paul?

That question, unfortunately, is likely to hang over Williams and the Hawks for much of the rookie forward's career. While Atlanta has struggled to get consistent point guard play, Paul unexpectedly has the Hornets in playoff contention and could snag an All-Star berth. As Chad Ford notes in his column today, Atlanta was one of the teams that passed on Paul in the 2005 draft. Meanwhile, Williams is averaging a modest 6.8 points and 4.5 rebounds per game off the bench for Atlanta.

But hold the comparisons right there.

"You can't compare," said Hawks coach Mike Woodson. "Because Chris is a point guard and Marvin is a 3, sometimes he plays 4. They're totally different games. Chris has played a lot more minutes than Marvin has played, so therefore his numbers are a lot better than what Marvin's are. Eventually Marvin's numbers will go the other way."

Indeed, one problem for Williams has been getting playing time in Atlanta's crowded forward position. The Hawks would like to play Williams at small forward, but with Al Harrington, Josh Smith and Josh Childress also on the roster, that's sometimes easier said than done.

"It's tough," said Woodson. "You can't play everybody 40 minutes. ... He's probably frustrated because he probably hasn't played the minutes he expected to play or would want to play. But for the minutes he's played, he's played well for our ballclub."

More than playing time, what separates Williams and Paul is the difference in experience. Just 18 months ago, Williams was dominating inferior competition in the sleepy Puget Sound port of Bremerton, Wash. Williams is 13 months younger than Paul -- he won't turn 20 until June -- and has seen much less high-level game action. Paul had two seasons at Wake Forest to run the show, while Williams came off the bench in his only season at North Carolina.

Additionally, the 6-9 Williams has yet to fill out physically, making his adjustment to the man's world of the NBA that much tougher. That's one reason he didn't turn pro directly out of high school, even though he could have been a lottery pick.

"It's a different game," said Williams. "It's definitely an adjustment. [The year of college] was huge. I mean, huge. ... I had the opportunity to go to the NBA out of high school and I turned it down. A lot of my classmates did [come out], like Josh Smith. I just didn't feel mentally ready for that jump coming out of high school."

"He just hasn't had a lot of opportunities to play basketball," said Woodson. "You figure just high school and then a year of college basketball and now he's playing in the pros. But he has all the qualities of being a nice 3 and a 4 because I think he's going to get bigger [physically]."

While he may be short on experience, the talent is there. The scouts I talk to still are in love with Williams's potential, and in recent games his performance has improved considerably. After shooting 37.3 percent from the field in November, he upped the mark to 49.0 percent in January, while averaging a more respectable 8.5 points and 4.8 boards. And with his gorgeous jumper, it's only a matter of time before he becomes a devastating 3-point threat. Right now he's shooting that shot from a few feet inside the 3-point line, but once he starts getting an extra point on those shots it will be a much more effective weapon.

"We're very pleased with Marvin's progress as a player because he can't help but get better," said Woodson. "I think the upside for him is going to be good because he does a little bit of everything. He defends, he rebounds, he can make a shot, he runs the floor well. There are a lot of good qualities in his basketball game. But he still has a lot of things he's got to learn before he gets to that upper tier."

Sum it up, then, including Williams' steeper learning curve, and it's not that surprising that he's so much farther behind Paul as a rookie. While Atlanta can't help wondering what might have been had they taken Paul, they realize they hardly blew it by taking Williams. Yes, Paul may be making an immediate trip to the All-Star Game, but few basketball people would be surprised if Williams is joining him in a few years. And if it works out that way, the Hawks needn't lament passing on Paul.

[Popeye]

GO MARVIN

[thesheedera]

That's the most positive article about Marvin I've seen since (as Diesel would say) the hype machine was shut down after the draft. seems like everything I've read about him since the preseason has been negative and ignores the fact that we drafted him as a long term project.

The thinking is fair too. Missing Paul may have been a huge mistake. If he improves from his great start he could be a great point guard. But that fact alone can't justify the argument that drafting Marvin was a mistake. his course is still not set in stone. I try to look at it as separate things - 1) missing Paul - Bad thing. 2) drafting Marvin - Good thing.

Especially since every indication was that we wanted Deron more.

Finally someone on the national level gives Marv a little slack.

[KB21]

Hollinger finally got something right.

Marvin's per 40 minute averages for the month of January rose tremendously to around 15 points and 7 rebounds per 40 minutes. It gives you an idea of what he would be putting up as a rookie if he were given more playing time.

Plus, the talent and skill level he has is the basis for his tremendous upside. There is no doubt in my mind that this guy has the potential to be a 25 PPG, 10 RPG, 5 APG type of player.

[KB21]

Well, Nick Saban made a comment last year about the critical factors he looks for in a cornerback. He said that there may be a 5'8", or a 5'9" cornerback out there with excellent cover skills and that he would be a really good player. He just may not not be a good player in Nick's system. He basically said that he's looking for corners that bring size to the table, and that he would pass on a 5'8" cornerback with great coverage skills simply because that corner doesn't fit his system.

There is two reasons Atlanta took Marvin Williams over Chris Paul. First, Marvin's potential upside is as an elite superstar in the NBA. Second, Chris Paul wasn't even the second player they were considering with that pick. He doesn't fit Billy Knight's system for a player. The Hawks were actually looking at Deron Williams, who brought more size to the table than Chris Paul.

[thesheedera]

Quote:

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Plus, the talent and skill level he has is the basis for his tremendous upside. There is no doubt in my mind that this guy has the potential to be a 25 PPG, 10 RPG, 5 APG type of player.

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And what is important to me is that even if his numbers are more in the 20 pt., 8 rb., 3.5 apg kind of range, I expect that he'll be doing all the things that help your team win, not just looking for points. I expect him to do the grunt work even if/when he's a superstar, and to work within the team concept, making his teammates better in the process.

[Popeye]

Finally something positive, but it's because Marvin was working hard i bet, and wanting to improve. Everytime I see Marvin open his mouth on the interviws, one of the first words that come out of his mouth is to Improve and get better and that's what he has been doing so far. I think he wants to prove people wrong

Keep working hard Marvin

[KB21]

He definitely understands the way the game should be played and has a very high basketball IQ.

Did you see the play the other night where he drove to the baseline and drew Josh Smith's man off him? Instead of forcing a shot like some other young players would do, he recognized that he created an open shot for Josh and dished the ball off to him. Josh missed the open jumper though.

[thesheedera]

He did the same thing baseline with Salim and got Salim an open 3, which he converted.

I really loved the pump fake about 10 feet out that got his defender in the air and left him open for a poster moment. Everyone's expecting his J, hopefully as they start defending it tight he'll continue to put the ball on the floor.

[KB21]

There aren't many players with his size that can do the things he can do. You just don't see 6'9" players that can handle the ball like that.

[exodus]

Quote:

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He did the same thing baseline with Salim and got Salim an open 3, which he converted.

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Yeah I saw that too.

A big problem with a lot of top players is that it is hard to find players to fit around them. A lot of the top scorers dominate the ball and leave others standing around watching them.

Assuming Marvin does become a 20+ scorer the big plus for the Hawks is that he will be effective with or without the ball. I don't see him ever being a guy who will stop the ball movement the way a lot of top players do.

I can see Marvin being very effective off the dribble creating for other people as well as being one of the best catch and shoot players around.

He is already showing that he is very active on the boards and on D.

I definitely think he hasn't filled out yet though. Sometimes when he takes what looks like moderate contact it sends him sprawling to the floor. Hopefully he grows out of that.

[gsuteke]

Quote:

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Well, Nick Saban made a comment last year about the critical factors he looks for in a cornerback. He said that there may be a 5'8", or a 5'9" cornerback out there with excellent cover skills and that he would be a really good player. He just may not not be a good player in Nick's system. He basically said that he's looking for corners that bring size to the table, and that he would pass on a 5'8" cornerback with great coverage skills simply because that corner doesn't fit his system.

There is two reasons Atlanta took Marvin Williams over Chris Paul. First, Marvin's potential upside is as an elite superstar in the NBA. Second, Chris Paul wasn't even the second player they were considering with that pick. He doesn't fit Billy Knight's system for a player. The Hawks were actually looking at Deron Williams, who brought more size to the table than Chris Paul.

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i don't buy that 'system' argument you are selling. the Hawks have no system. Billy Knight may have a simple philosophy which is to acquire tall versatile players but that's all it is, a philosophy. there is no system in place in atlanta. they are throwing crap against the wall and hoping it sticks.

[thesheedera]

And did I notice him bringing the ball up a few times? Or was that just oonce out of a press?

I was half watching and half cooking at one point.

[lifelong]

Quote:

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There is no doubt in my mind that this guy has the potential to be a 25 PPG, 10 RPG, 5 APG type of player.

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so you have no doubt that marvin is the next larry bird? those are some "wicked good" numbers.

[sinctybldh]

If Woodson thinks that Williams will eventually be a 4 then where does that leave Josh Smith. Do we think that Josh will eventually be a bench player for the Hawks or maybe not even a fit for this team?

[KB21]

You noticed it. There have been more than just a few times that Marvin would grab a rebound and push the ball up the floor, trying to get a fast break opportunity. This is what Mike Woodson tries to get everyone on his team to do, and this is also why Billy Knight wants multi skilled players at every position on the floor. At any point in time, we want the players to be able to get the rebound and push the ball up the floor.

Marvin does that. Josh Smith does it as well. I know some criticize him for not giving the ball up, but I like the fact that he recognizes the need to put pressure on the defense by trying to get run out opportunities.

[exodus]

That is the reason they turn it over so often on the break. They have guys handling the ball who aren't used to it and make dumb mistakes.

The teams with the best fast breaks get the ball to the pg and let him make the decisions.

[thesheedera]

I was talking about bringing the ball up after a scored basket.

[frosgrim]

Another thing that MW is doing is directing people on defense over the past few games. He points at guys and tells them where to go. Its like he understands the defense while Harrington, Z, and Smoove seem lost. JJ and Chill seem to have it as well but MW is becoming vocal.

The other little things that I have seen:

In the Chicago game, a Bull was breaking free on the base line the pass was going into him MW jumps and kicks the ball- that is a vet move. He couldn't make it to the ball but did something to prevent a layup.

He is developing a "look" ala MJ, Magic, Kobe. Really, look at his face when he gets a good shot or dunk. His eyes light up but in a cold I just got you way, not a look what I did way. This is a very good thing.

In all the light is coming on for MW. He needs to start IMO. The team just seems better with him on the floor.

Great to see and I am glad its starting to come together for him and the Hawks.