Black Thursday

[gsuteke]

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you can't tell me Indiana was happy with getting Peja for Artest, hence the length of time it took to get something done.

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Actually it turned out that Peja is great fit for them. They are playing really good even without JO.

I would say they are happy and i dont think Peja will leave Indy next season like Al would.

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is that all you got out of my post? sheez....

[Popeye]

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you can't tell me Indiana was happy with getting Peja for Artest, hence the length of time it took to get something done.

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Actually it turned out that Peja is great fit for them. They are playing really good even without JO.

I would say they are happy and i dont think Peja will leave Indy next season like Al would.

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is that all you got out of my post? sheez....

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That's a fact buddy

[Guest Walter]

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You don't trade players that have value for the sake of trading him.

Most of you that want Al Harrington traded simply won't him traded.

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I see the King of the Strawmen has returned. :roll:

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True. I don't care either way about trading Harrington but given our existing dire 'tweener forward-heavy roster situation and the fact that in this draft forwards are the ONLY position worthy of near top pick consideration, we've GOT to unload a forward (or two). Al seems the most reasonable to move.

Those who stated you never draft anything but the Best [b}PROJECT Available should realize last year's draft was a mistake for us not only within the context of itself or the TEAM but within the context of this year's draft. Oh well, I'd love to have Morrison and Chris Paul on the same team but we're stuck with who we have.

In short, keeping Harrington for the now means we are drafting for a team we know less about the future make up of. If we don't know whether we can/are keeping Al or what we are going to get for him our draft pick may be somewhat wasted. Drafting for a team you don't know is drafting blind and we are at least one eye closed going into this draft by our not making a personel move with Harrington.

W

[mrhonline]

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In short, keeping Harrington for the now means we are drafting for a team we know less about the future make up of.

W

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Well, we do know they're drafting a big, FWIW.

(Hey, how's Walt?).

[mrhonline]

FYI, a couple of teams have supposedly been given extensions for the trade deadline...Chicago, Minnesota, Houston.

[Lascar78]

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You talk of continuity, of which I'm also a big proponent. Wouldn't it be wise, however, for that very reason, to move Al now, if we can get more long-term pieces?

Of course, it depends who what pieces we could add for Al now. However, if we got guys that fit into the long term plan, I think it'd be much better if they got half of season together, versus having to play together for the first time next season.

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Yeah definitely, IF you can get the right deal for him. I think we would have made a deal if the right one came up. It did not, so we'll try again this summer.

Trust me from meeting with the owner, if the perfect deal had come up, we would have done it. GM's always listen to everyone, and hardly anyone in the league is truly untradeable.

I don't see Al and all the young guns fitting in to the long term plans, so someone has to go at some point in my mind. But I don't think you should trade Al now just because he happens to be the one who is a FA first. If you re-sign Al at the right price, he remains highly tradable to me. Unless the total disaster happens and chicago signs him outright and Al gives up on the extra year / $$$, I think we will get better deals this summer anyhow. We just are having to risk that disaster scenario.

[Dakin]

i dont know that the hawks have the leverage to be looking for the "perfect deal" but ill see how it plays out.

[Wretch]

Let me just find somewhere to jump in here and say, "Roger that..."

I think your comments pretty much sum up how I feel about it. I don't think Al has much of a future here, but not because of what he can/can't do. I like Al, but this summer BK set the stage for for change when he brought in JJ and Marvin.

You don't draft a guy #6 or #2 with the expectation that they will role players and you don't pay a guy as much as Al is going to get with the expectation of him coming off the bench.

So we need to move at least one person. The thing is, I am not a fan of moving guys just for the sake of moving them. Even if they demand a trade or are obvious cancers, I'd bench a star player into obscurity before I trade him for role players and expiring contracts. To hell with that sh!t...

To that end, if there were no deals out there that would truly benefit us, then I think BK does well by playing hardball and waiting. And like you said, if we end up getting shafted...then we take a hard look at Knight. To say that he is screwing up now is to presume that there will be no way to get better or equal value out of Al in the Summer. Worst case scenario is that we break even - because we honestly didn't invest anything in the deal to get him.

Regardles...one way or another, someone's got to go.

[exodus]

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But if we could re-sign him relatively cheap (9 mil per year for example), then we aren't stuck with him. We have him, and he would be highly tradable if we change our mind.

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First of all $9 million/year isn't remotely cheap. There is a surplus of forwards leaguewide and if we sign Al to a big deal he may not look so tradable in the near future.

And if we resign Al where are the center and pg that the Hawks need so desparately going to come from?

[gsuteke]

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But if we could re-sign him relatively cheap (9 mil per year for example), then we aren't stuck with him. We have him, and he would be highly tradable if we change our mind.

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First of all $9 million/year isn't remotely cheap. There is a surplus of forwards leaguewide and if we sign Al to a big deal he may not look so tradable in the near future.

And if we resign Al where are the center and pg that the Hawks need so desparately going to come from?

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that's 1 point.

point 2 is the breath of fresh air the Hawk's rotation would get moving a forward.

point 3 is it gives them flexibility going into the draft.

[Guest Walter]

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point 3 is it gives them flexibility going into the draft.

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That's my concern. Having not eased the team's forward glut or filled team needs at other positions with a trade of Al, our draft cannot seriously select the BPA (IMO Morrison, who I believe may be better than anyone in last year's draft), nor can our team select for need (not knowing what need may be filled with a sign and trade of Harrington). In otherwords, we cannot consider either draft strategy given our current personel situation.

W

[Diesel]

The Hawks are no longer in demolition mode. That's Welfare mentality..

So too bad, but BK didn't trade Al for....

and

[gsuteke]

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The Hawks are no longer in demolition mode. That's Welfare mentality..

So too bad, but BK didn't trade Al for....

and

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Diesel you pass yourself off as having a higher Bball acumen then the rest of us but you are more show than substance.

my 3 points will stand the test of time. you are more concerned with the size of Marvin's tirds and finding posts that are 2 years old to justify your arguments in your own skewed perception of reality than the here and now. Diesel you are officially dismissed. good day!

[Diesel]

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First of all $9 million/year isn't remotely cheap. There is a surplus of forwards leaguewide and if we sign Al to a big deal he may not look so tradable in the near future.

And if we resign Al where are the center and pg that the Hawks need so desparately going to come from?

that's 1 point.

point 2 is the breath of fresh air the Hawk's rotation would get moving a forward.

point 3 is it gives them flexibility going into the draft.

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Are these the three points that you believe are so solid that they would "stand the test of time"...

Well, here comes their time. ..

Starting from the bottom..

1. MORE FLEXIBILITY in the draft?? Joking right?

Please explain this moronic notion. If we trade Al just to trade him (as you seem to be suggesting). then we go into the draft with not 1, not 2, but three needs. Unfortunately it's a draft filled with good swing men, little PFs, little C, and little in the way of point guards. With our without Al, our wants are still the exact same for THE DRAFT for your info.. That's either Aldridge or Williams. That means that there is no more FLEXIBILITY created by trading Al for nothing. Ah, whatza matta... Your little point makes no sense??? Just because you say stupid sh_t and nobody ever challenges it, doesn't mean that it can stand the test of time.

A breath of fresh air

We lose Al for nothing, JJ takes on the heavy load of carrying the team. Defenses have an easier job stopping this team. The young guys get the opportunity to face real pressure... and on top of everything else. We're losing. Not close games... Getting blew out.

When that happens, confidence fails.... Attitudes are changed for the worse. I dare you to go back to look up some articles when we were on our losing streak earlier this year. You won't find players being good teammates. You will find some finger pointing... You will find coach scratching his head. You will find lack of leadership. Losing makes a team change for the worst not better.

How is that a breath of fresh air? And you think that you as a fan would be happier... But I doubt that you would spend your hard earned dollars to go see a loser? Trust me, as the time went on, you would find something else to bitch about... Ah, whatza matta... Your little point makes no sense??? Just because you say stupid sh_t and nobody ever challenges it, doesn't mean that it can stand the test of time.

3. "And if we resign Al where are the center and pg that the Hawks need so desparately going to come from?"

How about this. If we trade Al for nothing, where are the center and pg that the Hawks need so desperately going to come from? Do you think that there's some magic NBA store that will just give us a C and PG? How does trading Al for nothing make it possible to get a C and a PG in the first place? Surely you're not talking about free agency?? Don't you know that since Deke back in 1994, we have had to overpay to get good free agents to come to Atlanta?? Haven't you noticed that Free Agents aren't beating down our doors to come to this franchise (even with BK here). Honestly, our ownership situation is not one of the best in basketball because you still have to get 2 sets of guys to agree on something. From now on, free agents see us as one of the teams that passed up Chris Paul. Even our top guy (JJ) is seen as somebody is who OVERPAID... The draft yields the same thing weather Al is here or gone (see point #1). So that leaves trade... You want to trade away our trading material for nothing?? See this is why you are a teke and not the expert. The expert tells you that it's wise to have trading material when you are a team that cannot attract free agents... The expert tells you that it's wise to keep a sense of continuity while your young team is growing instead of making dumb moves just to make dumb moves. The expert will tell you that in the world of FA PR, it's better to be a Players GM than a Babcock GM. Right now, BK looks like a GM who is in control and has a plan. If you're a FA, what's better a GM that trades his top players every year for draft picks or a GM that looks like he's working towards something specific? Ah, whatza matta... Your little point makes no sense??? Just because you say stupid sh_t and nobody ever challenges it, doesn't mean that it can stand the test of time.

[joannes3000]

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I won't feel overly depressed about it if Al isn't traded today, nor will I feel that's an indication that BK is an idiot or a thickheaded, stubborn fool or that the franchise is going to hell in a handbasket or any of that stuff.

I will take it to probably mean that the deals just weren't out there, and that Hawks management felt that any trade of Al at this time would just not be worth what we get in return, and that they'll be better off waiting till this summer to do something with Al... so I'm fine with that. I'd much rather we stand pat and make no trade at all rather than make a bad trade or a trade that isn't likely to help us much.

But what this does is really put the pressure on BK and company do something positive with this situation this summer. If it ends up where Al ends up walking away for nothing- *then* I will be upset and pissed. But as of now, not so much.

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Well put. I was fully expecting to see backlash on the forums when I logged on but come on. How many threads does it take to realize that we're armchair GMs at best?

[gsuteke]

this thread suddenly becomes extremely relevant once again.

[Guest Walter]

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this thread suddenly becomes extremely relevant once again.

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[mrhonline]

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this thread suddenly becomes extremely relevant once again.

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Why? It's Monday.

[Lascar78]

While I agree, I find it funny that you dug up a 6 month old thread in which you said

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you are more concerned with ... finding posts that are 2 years old to justify your arguments in your own skewed perception of reality than the here and now.

Diesel you are officially dismissed. good day!

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[gsuteke]

read some of the opinions from 6 months ago. some of them are very revealing.