Blunt91 Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 I needed a little advice from you guys for my speech class. Our last project has me and another partner(a female) debating against another group on whether Pro Athletes are overpaid. Our side has to come up with facts on why Professional athletes are justly paid. We have went through our little mock debates and it seems like we are getting slammed with everything mentioned. I used the fact that Athletes on the average only play a short period of time (3 to 5years) and are suject to getting hurt and deserve to be compensated while they are still healthy to play. The other side said that anyone can get hurt at their regular job so that doesn't excuse them for being paid high salary. I could go on and on but it just seems like everything I think of they have a counter for it. The person I am paired up with isn't a sports fan so she isn't of much help. That is why I am asking you guys if you can think of a few things I can use against the opposing team. I am so sick of the subject that I might not want to watch any sports for a while after this debate is over. No I am not trying to put you on the class assignment just thought that since you guys are sports fans that you might have some ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascar78 Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 To me the basic argument should be that what determines "fair" pay in a capitalist society is basically how much money you make for your boss. It is fair for them to make millions and millions, because even after all that money, their bosses (the owners, the leagues...) are still making millions and millions of profit. The bottom line is there can only be so many major league athletes in the country, and most male people in the country spend a large amount of money on sports on one way or another. That's why they earn their cash. If I were you, I would try to get away from "they deserve it because they work hard" because the guy making 20 million isn't really working THAT much harder than the teacher making 25K. I would try to take it in the direction of people being worth whatever their bosses are willing to pay them. They generate tons and tons of cash because everyone watches. That's why they're worth it. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted April 14, 2006 Moderators Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Quote: If I were you, I would try to get away from "they deserve it because they work hard" because the guy making 20 million isn't really working THAT much harder than the teacher making 25K. I would try to take it in the direction of people being worth whatever their bosses are willing to pay them. They generate tons and tons of cash because everyone watches. That's why they're worth it. Just my 2 cents. Agreed. If the debate is aggressive I think you can brand your opponents as basically being socialists and opposed to free market capitalism. Sports stars get the money they do for the same reason that CEOs, actors, and others who generate tons of $$ for their companies do. They do something that few others are capable of doing and generate a ton of revenue for doing so. Ask them if it is not fair for atheletes in a league to get approximately half of the profits generated by their league. That is what NBA players and other athletes generally get as a share of the revenues. By entering into a collective bargaining agreement with the owners, they are essentially becoming partners with the league where the owners and players split the money generated. How can they argue that the league should get more? How can they argue against the free market system that makes sports a successful entertainment enterprise? The simple fact is that there is a heavy demand for skilled basketball players and these are the creme de la creme. Supply and demand. Basic free market economics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunt91 Posted April 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Thanks for the advice by the both of you . I will be sure to incorporate this in my presentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted April 17, 2006 Premium Member Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 In order to debate this point... You have to bring into the picture the $$$ that Major League Owners get. Like it or not, the Sports industry is paid well. And the players are only getting their share of what the industry makes. Now, when people stop watching sports, stop going to sporting events.. and shut down the ability for advertisers to advertise during sporting events, then these atheletes will get less... but as long as we watch, they will get paid and should get paid their share. Now if you really want to talk about overpaid... Talk about Exxon/Mobile's CFO retiring... DAYYYYUUUUMMM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJlaysitup Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 I also heard a quote on one of the sports networks from none other than George Steinbrenner...to paraphrase: "I get criticized for paying Derek Jeter $15million a year to play shortstop...he plays a 162 game season...(he's an athlete and an entertainer) Some movie stars make more than that in a couple months to make 1 movie" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted April 18, 2006 Moderators Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Post how your next debate goes - I'd be interested to hear if it goes any better. Getting away from the premise that people should be paid what they are inherently worth (i.e., teachers, police, etc. underpaid; entertainers overpaid) and going with free market capitalism (supply and demand) should completely change the debate for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weez Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 I love this thread. some of the most intellectual and insightful posting that I've seen on this board in quite some time. While I have nothing to add to the discussion at hand, I applaud all of those that are admirably providing discourse on this topic. * this site needs a spell check option for posts!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted April 26, 2006 Moderators Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Quote: Post how your next debate goes Anything yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunt91 Posted April 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 We just did the debate this morning, and I think we pretty much took the debate because the other side(against high salaries) didn't really have any facts to state their claim. My partnerand I used some of the suggestions here about supply & demand, and the fact the Athletes generate alot of money for the league & alot of others involved. I think the one that really got them though was when we brought out the fact that Athletes donate alot of money to charity. I heard someone in the audience mentioned that most of it was just for tax purposes. The otherside used that same statement. My partner and I stated it may or maynot be for tax purposes but the fact is they still gave. We also pointed out several Athletes who have given back like Warrick Dunn giving his money to help the victims of hurricane Katrine and then challenging every player on each NFl team besides the saints to donate $5,000dollars. THis amounts equals out to 260,000 per team and their are around 30 teams in the league. Dunn didn't do that because of tax purposes he did it because he cared and wanted to help the people of his hometown. The class voted on who won. I will not know the official results till Friday,but I talked to a guy after class on my way to the car and he said he voted for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJlaysitup Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Cool...hope you won. The Warrick Dunn example was good thinking. ++++++++++++ Great line from a Ron White routine: (paraphrased) "I got kicked off the debate team in high school...I was debating this kid and finally I just yelled - well F%#K YOU!!! - the kid was speechless - H#LL I thought I'd won!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBAreject Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 I disagree that the fact that athletes donate money to charity justifies their pay. Sure, it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, making you feel better about the fact that they make such huge salaries, but so what? Also, the fraction of salary that the average millionaire athlete gives is extremely small. Some give nothing. The ones who do give have it well-publicized. $5000 is NOTHING for these guys. They pay more for the average fine. The claim that this is just for tax purposes is silly. Sure, you can write it off, but then you just recoup a fraction of what you gave. You don't make money that way. The trouble is, you're trying to prove they "deserve" their salaries by showing that some of them give 5% of their income to charity and the like. What does anyone "deserve"? We don't live in a system in which people are compensated commensurate with their "goodness". The point here, is you just can't prove they deserve that much money on a moral level. It's a question of capitalism. In that vein, I don't see a problem with their salaries. They generate the revenue in ticket sales, merchandise, advertisements, etc. Economically, this is an interesting question. The supply of athletes is, for all intents and purposes, infinite. However, the ability of those players diminishes rapidly as you decline in percentile. The difference between the 1st and 10th best QB in the NFL would not be perceptible unless they were playing one another. You line them each up against an average Joe and they both look like dynamite. Since a limited number of pro teams compete directly with one another, the importance in having the BEST QB vs. the 10th best is dramatic in terms of expected winning%. Since revenues are tied to winning %, the best QB is worth many times what the 30th best QB is (even though they're both 99.999 percentile). If all players became FA the same off-season and there were no CAP and players only sought the highest salary, you would see a very interesting pay-out structure for players at each position. It would be exponential. The FA market isn't a pure one because only a few top players are available in each off-season. That is why so many NBA players get maxed-out. If only one PF is a FA, and he's the 15th best PF in the NBA, he's probably going to get maxed, because 5 teams may need a PF, and among the options he's the best. All very interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted April 28, 2006 Premium Member Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 The truth is that it's a shame that Entertainers and Sports stars make more than Doctors, Teachers, Policemen, and Firefighthers. Hell, every athlete making over 10 million dollars per year ought to sponsor a fire station or a school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted April 28, 2006 Moderators Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 Nice post and I agree with everything you wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunt91 Posted April 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 No I didn't base the whole debate on money given to charity. That was just another reason to support their pay. I agree most of them are overpaid but for this assignment we had to prove why they aren't. Oh yeah we won the debate 10 to 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin chillzatl Posted April 28, 2006 Admin Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 Quote: The ones who do give have it well-publicized. $5000 is NOTHING for these guys. You would be shocked at just how untrue both of those statements are. There are top of the line, A-list, ESPN favorite players out there with less money in their bank accounts than I have in my wallet right now. You'd be surprised at just how many of them are unable to pay their cell phone bills. Also, many many athletes donate large amounts of money, as well as their time, to various charities without it garnering much attention. Typically when it is thrown about in the media, it is the teams doing, not the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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