The Al Harrington Deal

CBAreject · July 5, 2006

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we are giving Phoenix our 1st next year if it isn't top 3 so WE MUST BE GOOD THIS YEAR.

So, we're going to be good just to spite Phoenix? They're going to get our pick whether we're good or bad (unless we're terrible), so why is this our major motivation for playing well? I think we should be good so that I can enjoy watching Hawks basketball again. T'hell with the pick. It's a sunk cost.

gsuteke · July 5, 2006

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we are giving Phoenix our 1st next year if it isn't top 3 so WE MUST BE GOOD THIS YEAR.

So, we're going to be good just to spite Phoenix? They're going to get our pick whether we're good or bad (unless we're terrible), so why is this our major motivation for playing well? I think we should be good so that I can enjoy watching Hawks basketball again. T'hell with the pick. It's a sunk cost.

i dunno about that Boss.

the only thing worse than wasting 60+ million on Eddie Curry and watching him suck egg on the court is wasting 60+ million on Eddie Curry and watching the Bulls select at #2 as a result of that egg sucking

CBAreject · July 5, 2006

Look up sunk cost and write me a 1 paragraph summary.

gsuteke · July 5, 2006

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Look up sunk cost and write me a 1 paragraph summary.

i'm at work and i'm bored but i'm not that bored.

i appreciate the offer though. keep me in mind next time

gsuteke · July 5, 2006

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Look up sunk cost and write me a 1 paragraph summary.

your analogy does not fit the definition of sunk cost. the 2007 outcome can be changed or altered due to the Hawks' play on the floor.

CBAreject · July 5, 2006

I disagree. The definition of sunk cost says nothing of not being able to change outcomes.

We lose the draft pick either way. It's already lost. We can't let the thought of it change the way we play. At this point, we're only trying to spite Phoenix. It's like the cost of eating at a buffet owned by people we don't like. Let's say we eat more food to ensure the restaurant makes no profit from us. In fact, we've paid 5.99 either way, and we don't really get any extra satiety from stuffing ourselves. We are changing the profit the restaurant makes (just as in the draft pick example), but we're not changing the cost of the buffet to ourselves. We may even diminish the benefit we gain by eating to a point of sickness!

jezmund · July 6, 2006

Yes, we lost the draft pick but the value of the pick can be altered. I think you misunderstood me, though, CBA. I don't mean that we need to trade or spend unwisely for a quick fix. Believe me, the last thing I want is a big contract. Forgive my bad wording.... It's more personal than basketball wise. I will feel awful if I see a Western Conference finals team like Phoenix drafting Thaddeus Young, etc.

gsuteke · July 6, 2006

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Yes, we lost the draft pick but the value of the pick can be altered. I think you misunderstood me, though, CBA. I don't mean that we need to trade or spend unwisely for a quick fix. Believe me, the last thing I want is a big contract. Forgive my bad wording.... It's more personal than basketball wise. I will feel awful if I see a Western Conference finals team like Phoenix drafting Thaddeus Young, etc.

Best case scenario

Hawks make playoffs next season and this board is full of people who were "fans the entire time."

2nd Best case scenario

The Hawks just miss the playoffs, get crazy lucky in the lottery and wind up with a top 3 pick

CBAreject · July 6, 2006

me too

suppose the trade ends up Rondo (or Williams, had we chosen him), Diaw, and Young

CBAreject · July 6, 2006

Oh, that is no doubt the best case. I want to go 40-42 and tie for the 8th seed but lose the tiebreaker then FOR ONCE get outrageously lucky and get the #1 pick, which we use on Greg Oden.

OK, so that's not going to happen. I'm pulling for a playoff seed.

gsuteke · July 6, 2006

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Oh, that is no doubt the best case. I want to go 40-42 and tie for the 8th seed but lose the tiebreaker then FOR ONCE get outrageously lucky and get the #1 pick, which we use on Greg Oden.

OK, so that's not going to happen. I'm pulling for a playoff seed.

there's nothing wrong with a win/win situation

Seano · July 6, 2006

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The draft is only deep from 1-4

Oden

Duran

Young

Noah

Everyone else sucks.

Shirley, you can't be serious.

Dejay · July 6, 2006

I'll just take Magloire in order to have the flexibility next year in a much more loaded 2007 free agent class. In a contract year, you know that Magloire is going to do his best to earn another payday. The draft pick would be a bonus.

Lascar78 · July 6, 2006

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Look up sunk cost and write me a 1 paragraph summary.

exactly. The trade is over. We don't get our pick. Where it ends up is completely irrelevant to our future. It's gone. Trying to make that pick worse makes no sense. It's gone anyhow, and whether Phoenix gets a better pick than other teams doesn't matter to us. It's gone. You don't gameplan to please critics, you gameplan to build a winner

BusBoyIsBack · July 6, 2006

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The draft is only deep from 1-4

Oden

Duran

Young

Noah

Everyone else sucks.

Shirley, you can't be serious.

Name a great player we could get with a 15+ pick in next year's draft. Sure next year's draft looks better on paper than this year's draft. It's the draft with the players with legit superstar potential. But those players will all be taken in the top 10. Which one of our trading partners looks like they will be that sorry?

I agree with the poster who says we need to stop worrying about having a draft pick just to spite Phoenix. I mean sure it's painful for the Knicks watching the Bulls have their pick. But #1)We aren't going to be that sorry next year and #2) Joe Johnson plays much better than Eddy Curry

twentythree · July 6, 2006

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The draft is only deep from 1-4

Oden

Duran

Young

Noah

Everyone else sucks.

Shirley, you can't be serious.

Name a great player we could get with a 15+ pick in next year's draft. Sure next year's draft looks better on paper than this year's draft. It's the draft with the players with legit superstar potential. But those players will all be taken in the top 10. Which one of our trading partners looks like they will be that sorry?

Name a legit superstar who was drafted 15+? That's something rare. But i also don't believe next year's draft sucks after four guys. You have McRoberts, Splitter etc.

Haven't you seen Hordford playing? He's a center who can have a starting role in our roster. Huge wingspan, almost perfect defense, good passer for a big.

You can watch the Chinese guy's videos. Yi Jianlian has similar skills with Bargnani (I mean the first pick!). He's just played a less competitive league.

And also you have to watch another Italian called Marco Belinelli. I watched him for a year in Euroleague, and I can tell you that he'll be better than Jaric.

So, let's count again.

Oden, Durant, Young, Noah, Splitter, Hordford, McRoberts, Yi, Belinelli. Nine players that just i know.

We also have solid role players like Afflalo, Brewer, Hansbrough, Marcus Williams, Jeff Green, Rudy Fernandez.

I mean, next year's draft is loaded.

AHF · July 6, 2006

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Name a great player we could get with a 15+ pick in next year's draft. Sure next year's draft looks better on paper than this year's draft. It's the draft with the players with legit superstar potential. But those players will all be taken in the top 10. Which one of our trading partners looks like they will be that sorry?

Name a legit superstar who was drafted 15+? That's something rare. But i also don't believe next year's draft sucks after four guys. You have McRoberts, Splitter etc.

Well, All-Stars since 2000 who were not picked in the first fourteen picks in the draft in recent years include two-time MVP Steve Nash, J. O'Neal, A. Kirilenko, J. Magloire, G.Arenas, R.Lewis, B.Wallace, T. Parker, Ilgauskus, Ginobili, B. Miller, S. Cassell, M. Redd, R. Artest, A.Davis, A. Mason, M. Finley, V. Divac, and J. Stockton.

Anyone who thinks those picks lack some very real value are fooling themselves. Of course, this list doesn't even include player like Josh Smith, Tayshaun Prince, etc. who haven't made All-Star teams yet but are key cornerstones of their teams.

Johnnybravo4 · July 6, 2006

Yeah but those picks are like from 10 different drafts. I don't think anyone would disagree that you can find a superstar after 15 but it is finding the proverbial needle in the haystack.

AHF · July 6, 2006

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Yeah but those picks are like from 10 different drafts. I don't think anyone would disagree that you can find a superstar after 15 but it is finding the proverbial needle in the haystack.

Finding useful players 15+ in the draft isn't that rare - although superstars are not common anywhere after the first couple picks in the draft.

Here are useful players from a couple drafts with All-Stars every year and marked with *:

1998 - Harpring, Nesterovich, R. Lewis*, A. Harrington, R. Davis, N. Mohammed, R. Patterson, R. Alston, C. Mobley, T. Lue

1999 - R. Artest*, J. Posey, J. Foster, K. Thomas, A. Kirilenko*, J. Jones, M. Ginobili*

2000 - H. Turkoglu, D. Mason, Q. Richardson, J. Magloire*, S. Claxton, M. Peterson, P. Brezec, M. Jaric, M. Redd*

2001 - S. Hunter, Z. Randolph, B. Haywood, G. Wallace, S. Dalembert, J. Tinsley, T. Parker*, G. Arenas*, M. Okur, E. Watson

These picks have real value if you do a good job with them like San Antonio. How much value is more up for debate but you can't toss these picks aside. By way of illustration, in the terrible 2000 draft the only All-Stars came after the lottery in Magloire and Redd.

Packfill · July 6, 2006