Anyone else concerned that Big Dog is our leading

[Admin]

rebounder? When was the last time a team was successful (meaning playoffs at least) and had their small forward lead them in rebounding in single digits?

[chillzatl]

The perception that a team needs one huge rebounder shows how stats have become more important than results. We've got four players that get 7+ rebounds per game. That's very good. We are 2nd in the league in rebounding. That's GREAT! Results are what count. It doesn't matter who our leading rebounder is. RESULTS!

[cyman3]

results man... all about the outcomes...

if all our players averaged 4-6 rebounds a game and were winning their games, im cool with that!

on the other hand, wat if u had a player that averages 16 rebounds per game... but after that player, the next best is at 5 rpg?

its all about the W

[Guest]

I'm concerned more about Big Hogs turnovers and

terrible defense.Did you see him turning the ball

over late in the game then allowing Williamson

to get the easy dunk.

[BlackHawkDown]

Needs to learn to rebound. When theo has a big night rebounding and Blocking shots the Hawks win. Theo is almost useless as a scorer. Wew dont need a 4th option we need a center.

[chillzatl]

We are high in rebounds, scoring, shooting %, FT%, etc. offensively we are one of the better teams in the league. But we give up so many points off turnovers we lose games. offensively we are one of the better teams in the league. It's really frustrating because if they could only improve on each just a little, they could be an exciting, winning team.

But don't kid yourself, this team wasn't designed to be a defensive stopper. It was designed to outscore the other guys. Which it is more than capable of doing. IF they can cut down on the turnovers.

I mean think about it, if we cut out 10 turovers per game and scored on 50% of those (assuming a near 50% fg%), that's another 10 ppg. We would outscore most teams and probably have 3-4 more wins right now.

[Guest]

You can throw stats out the window because

we are losing games.There is alot of stat players

on the team....However they aren't getting it done

where it counts.

They need to run a offense before they can be

exciting.

[Guest]

Chillz is right. Everyone can't average 10 boards, and with GR and SAR grabbing 7+ each a night, it's going to be hard for Theo to get many more than 10 on any given night (though the, what 3?, tonight is inexcusable). As a team, we're boarding fine - very very well, esp. given our shooting percentage (don't have as many opportunities at offensive boards, but grab most defensive).

It's the turnovers. The "offensive aggressiveness" thing was crap - cause we're shooting well...but the other team gets more shots than us, by a sizeable amount, on any given night, simply due to our turnovers.

GR had an awful night. Awful. This 6 to [censored] has got to stop.

[chillzatl]

you can't throw the stats out the window. YES, we are losing games. But did I not say, we need to improve on turnovers? This theory and assumption that we don't run an offense is dumb. we are one of the better offensive teams in the league. Top 10 in the league in scoring, rebounds, fg% and ft% are not empty stats. Those are very very impressive key stats.

Our problems have nothing to do with offense or defense. It's all about turnovers. We would have a solid OP PPG if it weren't for the points we give up off turnovers. If this team can cut down on their turnovers, we are a top 5 eastern team.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

Our problems have nothing to do with offense or defense. It's all about turnovers.

---

If we were better coached offensively, then our turnovers would decrease. When I watch the Hawks, What I see is a team that has Glenn Robinson trying to play PF ....Turnover. Reef playing High Post and sometimes on the Arc.... Turnover. JT deferring to Big Dog or Ham and setting up for a shot......Turnover. When SAR does get the ball in the post and is immediately surrounded by 3 defensive player, NOBODY Cuts and makes themselves available for a pass....Turnover.

Our problem is so evident. Our offense is either too simple or nonexistent. It's obvious we have very little organization because our guys barely know who to pass to on any given play. On offense we are like Nomads... becuase we lack organization.

So now the blame comes.

Blame Big Dog.... He turns the ball over too much trying to dribble.

Blame Reef..... He turns the ball over too much when doubled..

Blame JT... He's just not a pure PG...

The truth is that Lon should take the blame. He hasn't put together an offensive scheme that takes advantage of the strengths of our players. He's not ready for coaching on this level.

[chillzatl]

some of what you said is true. Reef and BigDog get no help when they are doubled/tripled. It's not so much a matter of nobody cutting. It's that nobody moves period. They don't even come over to get a pass to free him up from the pressure.

Beyond that, I haven't seen much or any of bigdog being used like a PF. Maybe you saw something in one of the very early games you watched. I haven't seen anything like that in recent weeks though.

Reef has been doing fine on the perimeter. Especially considering he only goes out there when he has to. He's shooting the ball fine from out there though and hasn't been a turnover liability at all lately. Mainly because he's either getting the ball and going quickly or he's getting the ball and looking for someone else to pass out too from the start.

I know it hurts you. But the stats bear it out. Offensively we are fine. You can deny credit for it to the coach. But we are a very good, efficient offensive team and the coach deserves some of the credit for it.

I'm not going to say he's perfect. He does a lot of head scratching things. But he's obviously teaching them a system that they are slowly but surely grasping. The stats don't lie.

I still say the turnovers will shrink as they learn to play together. Your Dec. 19th date will come and go with no changes. Merry Christmas.

[Guest]

Guys just get the ball and shoot it.There are no

plays being ran unless they are simple and even

they look sloppy.

"I know it hurts you. But the stats bear it out. Offensively we are fine. You can deny credit for it to the coach. But we are a very good, efficient offensive team and the coach deserves some of the credit for it."

We are averaging like 87PPG over our last 6 games.That

is hardly efficient.

"I'm not going to say he's perfect. He does a lot of head scratching things. But he's obviously teaching them a system that they are slowly but surely grasping. The stats don't lie."

Then why don't we win?Then why is the offense dropping

off when two player teams like Boston is averaging 98PPG?

"I still say the turnovers will shrink as they learn to play together. Your Dec. 19th date will come and go with no changes. Merry Christmas."

Like Van Gundy said....All these guys have turned the

ball over their whole careers and that is not going to

start changing after 5-8 years in the league.Sorry the

team was built off bad defensive and turnover prone

players.

Of course changes aren't going to be made.Pete"Good

ole Boy"Babcock might do one thing correct in his tenure

as the Hawks GM.

[Traceman]

In one breath, you imply than Lon is the reason we turn the ball over so much but then you use Van Gundy's quote to blame the players. The truth is that there is enough blame to go around. Lon needs to recognize the players' limitations and the players need to value the ball. Maybe its time for a little negative reinforcement. You make a stupid turnover, you sit. I know Lon is (or was) making them run for turnovers in practice but after we took care of the ball well against Milwaukee and Detroit at home, we reverted back to our old turnover prone selves in the last game against Detroit. I'm looking for a much better effort tonight.

[Guest]

I'm blaming everybody.There is not one player on

the roster that I am happy with at the current time.

But yet,this team is the worst team I have ever seen

at making mistakes.I just feel a better coach would

have the team better cleaned up and less sloppy by

now and not to mention the sub patterns and Lons

lack of feel for the NBA game.

A coach with legit and winning NBA experience would

have the team in better shape.Sure some of it is not

Lons fault that he has no NBA winning expeirence...However

that is just the way it is.

[chillzatl]

I mean c'mon, don't let overzealous negativity cloud your vision.

YOu can say we don't run plays or whatever. But when you are top 10 in fg% AND PPG, you are doing something right.

Boston is a veteran team. Wtf are you talking about? You think they got to where they are overnight? Don't be thick headed dude. It doesn't matter how many scorers they have. They have plenty of experience with those guys and that system. We have great stats. As i've already told you. We lose because of turnovers. We give up 20ppg on turnovers, that hurts. We have excellent offensive stats, we just can't quit coughing up the ball.

Now c'mon guy, Thats BS. Vangundy needed something to say . None of our players have significantly higher career TO averages than other players on their level and at their position. JT's TO's are still considerably lower than other players at his position. He's lower than Kidd, marbury and miller.

So saying they are career high TO players is nonsense. They aren't all creators. But they aren't career high TO players. The team lacks chemistry and that's what you get with players who either aren't used to playing together or don't care to step up their play enough to fix it.

If we gave up the league average in TO's per night (16) we would be 2-4 games over .500 right now.

[Guest]

All talk.96PPG isn't all that great.ESP when we

are behind alot the road and get down by alot

of points and try and make a comeback.People

here overrate the stat sheet.

"Now c'mon guy, Thats BS. Vangundy needed something to say . None of our players have significantly higher career TO averages than other players on their level and at their position. JT's TO's are still considerably lower than other players at his position. He's lower than Kidd, marbury and miller."

Van Gundy was right.JT has been ineffective this year for

the most part.He so happens to get a few assist because

Big Hog makes some of his jumpers.Rarely does JT help

anybody other than Big Hog get a shot.JT gets about 6APG

off of Big Hog jumpers.

"So saying they are career high TO players is nonsense. They aren't all creators."

Shareef and Big Dog average over 3 turnovers a night and

are even worse this year.

They often get blownout on the road and it makes the

stats look overrated.No to mention they have had a

pretty decent ammont of overtime games to bloat stats.

Fans here overrate the stat sheet.Watch the games.

[Diesel]