Serious question for Lon bashers

[Admin]

Everyone keeps saying that since the players arent playing motivated, that its Lons fault for not motivating them right?

Well I would like to know, as those 12 year olds playing in mens bodies? Cause I thought they were grown men getting paid a fortune to do a job, am I wrong?

Lets say that you are working for a fortune 500 company, and you dont seem very motivated about doing your job. Maybe you give about 75% effort most of the time. Should upper management fire your boss because he isnt you to give 100% or should they fire you because you are a grown man earning a paycheck and not giving it your all? Seriously, I think that people should think about this.

I can understand people (including myself at times) being pissed at Lon because we look lost on the floor. The blame for that must be spread around equally, but it ultimately falls on the head of Babcock and Kruger. Babcock for not bringing in another ball handler to help JT and Lon for not emphasizing his players strengths and hiding his players weaknesses by way of his offensive and defensive plays.

My point is that its getting old hearing people blame Lon for the players not playing motivated, inspired basketball, when it should be up to the individual WAGE EARNING ADULT to give it a full effort each and every night.

[Traceman]

I DO think it is the coach's job to motivate but at the same time, if the players KNOW they are not getting the job done, they have a responsibility to step up and do better. I too am more concerned with Lon's sub patterns and in game adjustments than I am with his inability to get these guys to hustle. They KNOW, they are not hustling as a team, they just need to do it!

[cyman3]

hustling is something the players can control 100%... sub patterns is something the coach can control 100%

right now, our biggest problem is HUSTLING (not the sub patterns).

[Gray Mule]

Are these 12 year olds in men's bodies? Yes, sometimes

I think that they are. What motivates them? If you

can find an answer to that - Half of the battle is won.

True, these players are professional men, going to work

just like the rest of us. They get paid a lot more than

most, but it is still a job. All the people in the stands

and watching on T.V. are watching them as they go

about their work.

That little extra that is necessary for them to do the best

job possible has to come from pride and motivation.

Teamwork - When one fails, he should realize that he

not only didn't preform up to what he was capable of but

that he has let his teammates down.

Some of the Hawks should hang their head in shame

after their recent preformances. There is enough blame

to go around from top to bottom, from the front office

to the 12 th man on the bench.

When these professional men quit playing as individuals

and start playing like a team, being concerned with

representing the Atlanta Hawks and not themselves,

then and only then will we see the Hawks that we want

to see on the floor. There is too much concern with "I"

and not enough concern with "we."

[Diesel]

When Players are being MISCOACHED, they tend to lose focus. Look at Denver with McDyess, Van Exel, Lafrentz, etc... The problem was not with the players because when Van Exel and Lafrentz were traded they came up big for Dallas. So big that Dallas gave Lafrentz big money and held on to NVE. However, while they were in Denver, the fact that they were being miscoached led them to not be motivated. Sometimes people call it a change of scenary.... But really, it's better coaching. There's a great difference between players who play for Good coaches and players who play for Lousy coaches.... Remember the Hawks under Bob Weiss??? There was nothing wrong with Dominique. There was nothing wrong with Willis or any of those guys. Their problem was that Weiss couldn't coach. Couldn't come close to leading the team. His three yrs here was a waste of everyone's time. Lon is in the same shoes. Same problems. Some of you don't know the history of the Hawks. Well, this is the same thing that happened then. Bad Coaching led to underachievement.

However, your example...

In reply to:

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Lets say that you are working for a fortune 500 company, and you dont seem very motivated about doing your job. Maybe you give about 75% effort most of the time. Should upper management fire your boss because he isnt you to give 100% or should they fire you because you are a grown man earning a paycheck and not giving it your all? Seriously, I think that people should think about this.

---

If I were working for a fortune 500 company... Then 9 times out of 10 what makes them a fortune 500 company is that they have a DIRECTION. However, how many fortune 500 companies have you ever seen that had CEO's that couldn't lead or make deals. How many of those companies didn't have a prospectus or a 10 yr plan. How many of those companies have you come across that had goals but NO Plans. How many of those companies got their top executives from the mailroom or better yet their top executive was a guy fresh out of college with a BA? That's what we have. We have a top person who is fresh out of college with NO experience. Is that the kind of Fortune 500 company that you are talking about. Better yet, if it were me and my boss didn't know what he was doing and everything he told me was wrong. How can I be motivated to go out and fail??? Goto the Fortune 500 company. Find a worker with a boss who is not qualified to do the job he has and is failing at everything he does... Then find out if that worker is motivated every morning?

Yes, the Hawks have set a goal of getting to the playoffs. We have capable personnell on the court... But we have NO good direction from the sidelines... Leads to being unmotivated.

[BlackHawkDown]

When organizations, such as fortune 500 companies, per you example fail. The pressure falls on management. If sectors of you company are underperforming you can either cut it or change the system to make your employees more productive. When my profits go down I evaluate my employees discuss changes with my management team and make change. That is the nature of business. Sports is a business. We often forget that. Lon makes 2.5 - 5 mill a year. Heck, I dont make that, he doesn't cry over his paycheck so I wont cry for him. I disagree with a mid season coaching change and I think that most of the talk on this board is premature but I still believe that Lon weas the wrong chose.

Zeke should be our coach. We failed to get him but there are several chose out their. Also I think a potential head coach(3 -4 years from now) in Sydney Green, former NBA player, now coaching FAU.My personal choice is Alex English if there is an immediate change.

PS: To Dolfan why are you so pro mangement and anti player

[Admin]

I am neither pro management nor anti player. However I feel that the battle is won or lost on the front lines, by the soldiers. Yes the commander must lead them with a solid plan of action, but ultimately its the soldiers who must make the conscious decision to want to defeat the enemy. If the players were out there busting their butts, diving for loose balls, etc........and we were still losing like we have been, then I would be all over Lon blaming him. However the players arent busting their butts and thats the biggest reason we are getting smoked. There is no feeling of pride in being a Hawk, or at least thats the image that is portrayed by the effort shown on the court by the players. This team has a lot of potential and I dont know whether or not Lon/Babs can lead this franchise to greatness, but until the players start giving it their all we will never know because it will completely be a moot point.

[Traceman]

they are playing with 3 All Stars in Dirk, Finley and Nash instead of 3 journeymen in Posey, McCloud and Ryan Bowen. Van Exel and LaFrentz were THE MEN in Denver but they are role players in Dallas. I'm sure Nellie is a better coach than Issel but if Issel had the same talent that Nellie has, I'm sure Issel would still be coaching.

All that being said, don't get me wrong, coaching DOES matter and if Lon continues to not get it done, he needs to be blown out of here right along with Babcock. I think Babcock has done a good job of bringing in talent as of late but HE was the one who chose to bring Lon in when a number of other choices were available and if Lon goes down, he should go down with him.

[Diesel]

IF the Commander leads his soldiers into an ambush and the soldiers lose the battle is it the soldiers fault. The leadership is a lot more important than the execution. When the leadership is failing, Morale becomes LOW. That's what we are experiencing.

[Admin]

Not once have our players been led into an "ambush". However since you want to use that analogy, I will refer back to my time training numerous times for many varying ambushes while I was a Ranger. You ask "IF the Commander leads his soldiers into an ambush and the soldiers lose the battle is it the soldiers fault?" Well D, sorry but yes it is. Soldiers are trained to not give up just because they are in an ambush. An ambush can be defeated with enough effort and will to live. The soldiers must be properly equipped for an ambush and seeing as how we have one of the most talented starting lineups in all of basketball I would say that we are well equipped to handle any situation. Granted we are missing one piece, that being a complimentary ball handler at SG to help JT out. For that you would have to blame Uncle Sam for not equipping his commanders with the proper tools, not the commanders themselves. If we went into Iraq right now without any tanks or fighter jets, merely with Special Forces and Rangers and Seals, we would lose a war against Iraq. However I can guarantee that the soldiers would fight to the death for a victory. You could not blame the generals for their units not being properly equipped, you would have to blame Uncle Sam. However, if knowing that we are under equipped we go into battle and just lay down and die with only spurts of effort shown, not only should the blame lie with Uncle Sam (AKA Babcock in our case), but it should lie with each and every individual soldier (AKA JT, Reef, Dog, Theo, etc. in our case). There is no excuse to not give 100% effort in the face of adversity. This team is prepared (should be anyways) for every game that they have, so it would hardly be an ambush when Jordan and the Wiz or some other playoff bubble team whips our butts on the court. Surely there is plenty of blame to go around and nobody has amnesty in that area, but first and foremost the blame for the lack of hustle throughout each and every game must first fall on the individual players.

[hds428]

Well stated Dolfan, perfect analogy. The field commander can talk and motivate until he's blue in the face, but it's up to each individual soldier to decide on the battlefield whether he stands and fights or cowers and rolls over. These guys are trained professionals, the Hawks aren't the Republican Guard of the NBA, there are allstars in three of five starting slots. IMO the coaching is good (not great) as evidenced by the quick starts and early leads we seem to always build and subsequently blow. These guys step onto the battlefield with a decent gameplan, but sometime around the end of the first or beginning of the second quarter they make their own decision to roll over and die on the court.

[Diesel]

Actually... Not true.

The soldier is going to follow everything that his superior tells him. Anything else would be misconduct.

So you mean to tell me if that Superior makes tactical errors... and that platoon doesn't succeed in their goals... It's the soldiers fault??

My goodness. This might seem harsh... But I guess it was the Soldiers who gave their lives Fault that Vietnam happened the way it did. They were supposed to overcome the impossible circumstance that their supperiors gave them.

I guess it was the Russian Soldiers fault that they lost the war against the afghans even though they were sent into a tactical loss?

Leadership starts at the top and filters it's way down. Babcock has done his job by getting good players. 3 of these players have been allstars and Terry has the ability to be an allstar. However, when these allstars play like Crap... It's their own fault right? I guess the Hawks should be like the Buddy Ryan Eagles. Make up their own offense and defense and run it like Sandlot basketball.

Why even have a coach???

[Traceman]

where the players have the best opportunity to be successful but it is the PLAYERS responsibility to do the very best they can with what they have to work with and our guys simply are not doing that. Not hustling for lose balls, not blocking out, not moving without the ball, making stupid passes, etc. are things that the players have control over and they bear just as much responsibility for those things as the coach does.

I certainly agree that Lon has done a poor job up to this point in the season but the players have done a poor job as well. The way these guys are playing, there is more than enough blame to go around.

[Diesel]

The Players know that they are too good to be this bad.

They have lost morale. Mainly because they are sent out on the court with either bad direction or no direction and it's embarrassing. So the results... Confusion. I mean, now we got players telling other players what their role should be... .That's the coaches Job. The Coach have not set a blueprint together.

It's like Lon is willing to let the players go out there and Play and when he sees somebody doing something he likes, he's willing to keep them on the floor.

That's why you see attachment to players like:

LRob

Maloney

Hanno

Email

Ira

It's not like these players were good at executing Lon's plays... These players were good junk players. They knew how to hustle when there was nothing else to do.

BUT...

The problem is that we have always had more talented players than just these hustle players. And these talented players have had to take a backseat to these hustle players because these talents are gone unused.

Coming out of College... There were no more dominant postup SG than Dion. However, Lon has a specific role for his SG... ON the perimeter. Plays away from Dion's strength.

IN his first yr, DJ was one of the better finishers. On the break, he would go up and over anybody. I specifically remember him posterizing JJ and Brian Grant. Anyway, Lon's SG... On the perimeter. Plays away from Dj's Strength.

Big Dog is probably the best standstill midrange shooter in the game. Yet we turn the TV on and Lon has big dog immitating Toni... What the [censored]??

SAR came here as one of the best Post PFs playing. Manhandled Ben Wallace last yr with inside post play... BUT now. SAR is on the perimeter and trying to dribble into the lane.

I won't mention the changes in JT.

However, the point is that LOn doesn't know how to use his talent. INstead he wants his talented players to play away from their strength.. Then there's the hustle players. They will always be Lon's favorites because even though they lack talent, they will do something when there is no direction.

That's where we stand. We have given a Ford Mechanic a Mercedes. And he doesn't know what the [censored] is going on.