Has JJ moved to the realm of UNTOUCHABLE?

[AHF]

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What was actually given up for him?

I remember prior to his being traded I wanted Darko/filler for Harrington. Shame. I really think that front court is going to be awesome.

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Orlando gave up next years 1st round pick and Cato. Great deal for them.

We would have probably had to give up this years draft pick and I don't even know if we technically could have traded it since the Suns have our pick next year.

They didn't want Harrington because they were planning on resigning Wallace.

The majority here were against trading for him, thinking he was a bust.Woody argued against getting him which pretty much took us out of the running.

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Yep. I think the point about not wanting to add salary is a big one. In fact, the biggest reason Detroit did the trade was to drop salary so they would re-sign Big Ben. I think right now they are saying "oops."

On Dwight, you can see his impact in his PER. His rookie year PER was essentially the same as Joe Johnson's. JJ's last year (the highest of his career). No one on the Hawks team has ever had a season with as high a PER as Howard had last year. The guy is very good now with a lot of room to go.

I do think he has a limited skill set right now but is very good at what he does. I think it is a bit disingenuous to ask how he is a standout other than rebounding and dunking, as if what he is doing now by leading the league in rebounding isn't already significant. When you have a guy who is already an impact player and shows every sign of being signficantly better in the future you have someone with an extremely high trade value. I think that is where Howard is. That is certainly my view of him.

[exodus]

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shows every sign of being signficantly better in the future

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Here is where we disagree. I am not going to assume someone will improve just because they are young. I assume they will improve when I see them improving.

Howard has played a lot of minutes the last 2 years and yet his shooting has not improved at all. This past season he scored only 5 ppg that weren't dunks or free throws, shooting 39% on those points. And for a guy with his size and athleticism blocking only 1.4 shots in 37 minutes is lame.

Kwame and Chandler had a lot of people thinking they had very high ceilings when they were drafted. So far their offensive skills are non-existent.

Obviously Howard is already far beyond those two busts but right now Howards skills are not very good and haven't shown signs of improvement. In fact his free throw % dropped from 67% to 59% this past season.

Dennis Rodman was a great rebounder but I don't think anyone would compare him to Karl Malone or Tim Duncan as a player. Rodman was great at what he did but he was a specialist and it is certainly possible that Howard will become a specialist also.

[Final_quest]

Here's the thing. He could maintain 15 and 12.5 for 10 more years and still be one of the best bigs in the league. I would be willing to take a chance that a 19-20 year old could improve some facet of his game, and be more than what he is now. Even if he doesn't improve he's easily one of the best, though.

[exodus]

Great rebounder, average scorer, average defender.

Considering the lack of quality centers that would make him one of the best but some people are acting like he is already a complete player when he is far from it.

I think I'll wait until he averages 20 for a season before i put him in the Hall of Fame.

[AHF]

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some people are acting like he is already a complete player

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Who is acting like that?

[exodus]

The initial post of this thread proposed this trade;

Howard and Hill for JJ and Marvin.

That should be self explanatory.

[BBallPrincess]

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Great rebounder, average scorer, average defender.

Considering the lack of quality centers that would make him one of the best but some people are acting like he is already a complete player when he is far from it.

I think I'll wait until he averages 20 for a season before i put him in the Hall of Fame.

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well he's four points away from that average....

[BBallPrincess]

I don't think anyone here is saying that we would trade our superstars for a star on the verge, but we are saying is that the kid is good, bottom line. There are some here who agree and some who don't. Either way it goes I'm sold on the Kid

[exodus]

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but we are saying is that the kid is

good,

bottom line. There are some here who agree and

some who don't.

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I haven't seen anyone say he isn't good. Just because i think he is overrated on this board doesn't mean i don't think he is good.

I like Smith and Marvin but I would trade either for Howard without blinking.

[AHF]

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The initial post of this thread proposed this trade;

Howard and Hill for JJ and Marvin.

That should be self explanatory.

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I don't think that translates into someone who thinks his game is complete at all. To the contrary, I think that obviously represents someone who thinks he will make dramatic improvements in his game over the next few years. I am not sure anyone has argued his game is complete.

[BBallPrincess]

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I like Smith and Marvin but I would trade either for Howard without blinking.

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I like the Marvin deal, but not give up one hommer for another. Josh stays put....Would much rather see them together...

[exodus]

Like i said earlier I just think he is being overrated. Complete might have been a poor word choice but i think people are just assuming he will improve a great deal simply because he is young. History has shown it doesn't work that way.

When you break down his game he is a guy with great size and athleticism but average skills.

[Final_quest]

OK ex, let's ask a question to put Howard into perspective. If you were starting a franchise and could take one big, PF or C, who would you choose ahead of Howard?

List all of them.

[AHF]

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When you break down his game he is a guy with great size and athleticism but average skills.

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I agree with that. I just think the odds of him improving his skills significantly are very high and that if he makes any kind of real improvement he will be a very special player. Based on that promise, I would trade anyone on our team for him. I would not trade both JJ and Marvin, though.

[er9dverk]

right now i would take timmy

[AHF]

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right now i would take timmy

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And only Timmy?

[Final_quest]

Tim Duncan is 30 years old! You would take someone who has a few dominant years left over a 20 year old who led the league in rebounding?

[Yubs]

PF or C's I'd take over Dwight:

Duncan

Garnett

I may take these players over Dwight:

A. Stoudemire

Yao

Dirk

That's about it.

[exodus]

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Tim Duncan is 30 years old! You would take someone who has a few dominant years left over a 20 year old who led the league in rebounding?

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Bigs age better than guards. Duncan's game isn't based on his athleticism it is based on size and skill. Don't be surprised if he is still very effective nearing 40.

I would take him over Howard without a thought.

[er9dverk]

yeah. right now. id like to see a banner in philips.

maybe kg, but maybe not. maybe yao.

i think howard is going to be quite a player. i would dearly love to have him. i think he will learn to shoot.