Peter Vescey's article on the hawks.

[Guest]

I think it was Big Hog that said it...It's easy to

score points when you are losing every night

and by nearly double figures everynight.

Reef see's double team...Boo hoo hoo so does

alot of players.His bad handles and lack of a

consisant jumper and his overall lack of athletic

ability make him easy to double team with little

harm...What is he going to do...dish out for assist?

Yeah right.

Too bad biased fans will never see the truth.He's a

third option on a quality team but on a bottom feeder

he puts up bloated stats.Get over it...Hes not as good

of a player as you think he is...He's never won or

improved a team and his 7 rebounds as a PF is nothing

to brag about.

[jezmund]

If the Pistons can win with the kind of talent they have, then we can for sure with the right attitude.

[Guest]

However, he has size. Therefore he should be a better rebounder and Shot blocker. "

yeah and that helps make him better like it or

not...

"However, put Gasol and Reef one on one or let them

play the same people one on one. While Gasol needs

others to help his game get started and rarely sees

double team play. Reef sees lots of double teams.

Reef would destroy the defenses that Gasol plays

against."

Poor ole Reef never has any help.He's just stuck on

no talented teams eh?Where was that 25PPG he was

supposed to get?Where is the wins or the improvement

in the team?He hasn't brought any.He's a fantasy league

and nintendo game stat player and nothing more.

He's not a true allstar either.He only made the team

because of the east lack of good big men.If he played

in the west he wouldn't have made it last year and he

shouldn't have anyway because he didn't deserve it.The

Hawks sucked the first half of last year and they suck

this year aswell.

Get over it...your boy is overrated and has never really

improved a team.This is like his 7th year and still he

hasn't improved a team.He's a fantasy league player

just like I told you before the season started.

[Guest]

IF IF IF IF...If I had millions of bucks I wouldn't have

to work.He's too busy getting riped up by 40 points

by Harrington and was [censored] enough to stand there

and watch Al dunk on him for his 40th point.

[Guest]

Like I said before...The franchise can forget it

until they get real stars and stop screwing around

with mediocre first options like Smitty/Reef/Big Hog.

Bring a real star to the franchise and you have hope.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

Reef see's double team...Boo hoo hoo so does

alot of players.

---

Out of the players whoose name you have called, How many of them see doubles?

Walker?? NOpe. Not with Pierce playing with him and him hanging onto the 3 pt line.

Oneal?? Nope. Not when he has been surrounded by talent like Rose and Miller during his stay in Indy.

Gasol?? Nope. If Gasol faced the defenses that Reef does, he'd pull an 0 for.

Brand?? Not likely. Maybe in Chicago? But since he's been in LAC he's had nothing but Single coverage.

KG?? Yes, I would say that defenses plan for KG.

Duncan?? Yes, I would say that defenses look to stop Duncan.

Mailman?? I don't know why not but I don't recall even the mailman in his heyday being doubled much. [censored] pick and roll.

Wallace?? Come on.

Dirk?? When?

Webber?? NO.

So, SAR is in the company of Duncan and KG as far as doubles are concerned. NOT Bad company if you ask me.

In reply to:

---

His bad handles and lack of a

consisant jumper

---

First off, I love the fact that Reef is a Low post PF. I don't think I would want him being a Jumper happy PF. That's what killed Karl Malone in the NBA Finals 2 yrs in a row.

However, I agree, I would like to see SAR pass out of the post a lot better... However, have we even seen a coach try to use him in that fashion?? Seriously.. All the time in Vancouver, SAR played mostly at the SF position. ON the wing. When he came him, we moved him mainly to the PF. However, Lon never took the time to teach him or to play the offense off of him. Mainly because Lon's offenses sucked and had no definition. However, any coach that decides to define SAR as the first option and teaches SAR how to play the post and pass out of the post will definitely be the beneficiary of Allstar quality PF play. However, if we were to maintain the Lon Kruger mentality of Do whatcha wanta do just score.... Nothing good will ever come of it.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

yeah and that helps make him better like it or

not...

---

Just like Theo. Shot blocking doesn't mean much if you are not a positional defensive player. It's like Ben Wallace vs. Theo. Ben can block shots and shut a player down.

Offensively, Gasol is NO Match for SAR. He doesn't face the doubles. He can't take the pressure. It's easy to look good when Nobody's trying to stop you. However, SAR looks good with 2-3 guys draped on him every night. Now what we need is a coach that will make Grob a scoring threat in the offense and a PG who can get the ball to the open man in the scheme of the offense. That's all. Because if Reef isn't doubled all the time, he will score a ton of points.

In reply to:

---

Poor ole Reef never has any help.He's just stuck on

no talented teams eh?Where was that 25PPG he was

supposed to get?

---

Had you noticed that even with Poor Coaching, we have won more this yr than we had last yr at this time? I suspect that the crow sandwhiches you will be eating by seasons end will be very salty.

In reply to:

---

He's not a true allstar either.He only made the team

because of the east lack of good big men.

---

Was he an allstar? How can he not be true? That's about the stupidest thing anyone can say. That's like Saying Finley and Francis are NOT TRUE allstars.

Last yr had you placed either guy in the east vs. Davis, Kidd, Tmac, Vince, Allen, Houston, Reggie, and Stackhouse.. they would not have made it. There will always guys who don't make it because they are not better than what's out there. However, when a guy makes it... He's an allstar. In the East last yr... There was Wallace, Van Horn, Walker, Oneal, Kmart, and Brown... NOt to mention a slew of SFs... However, SAR ascended to make allstar over and above all of these guys. Do you believe that these guys aren't good?

[Guest]

He's not as bad of a defender is Reef...I mean

c'mon...a 6th mand droped 40 points on him

with ease.

SAR and pressure????What pressure?The Hawks

often lose by double figures?What kind of pressure

does he face??It's a joke...kinda hard to face pressure

when you are on a cupcake team.

"Had you noticed that even with Poor Coaching, we have won more this yr than we had last yr at this time? I suspect that the crow sandwhiches you will be eating by seasons end will be very salty. "

Not much better and honestly that isn't saying much

anyways.it isn't like they are over .500

The team is play a 6 foot backcourt...and has a piece

of [censored] of a bench.For all that I think hendu tries to

do...when he is your most productive player off the

bench at 5PPG 5RPG(nothing special)then you know

you are in trouble.A underachieving center,no first

option,no real defensive players,no top rebounder,

no top 10 scorer.....No playoffs.And honestly going

39-43 to get 8th seed really isn;t winning.Hard to

be winning when you have more losses than wins.

"Was he an allstar? How can he not be true? That's about the stupidest thing anyone can say. That's like Saying Finley and Francis are NOT TRUE allstars."

Chris Gatling was a allstar....Mookie was a allstar..Reef

is not a allstar player year in and year out...Last year

could be his only allstar appearence and he didn't de

serve it.

"That's all. Because if Reef isn't doubled all the time, he will score a ton of points."

And he will also give up a ton...26 to Howard and 40

to Al Harrington??Doesn't do alot of good to score

a ton of points(and 20 is hardly a ton..Not even a

top 15 I don't believe)if you give up alot and get

smacked around by a 6th man.How do you give up

40 points to Al Harrington?

Kmart didn't make it because his 13PPG 6RPG is

mediocre....I mean Antonio Davis made the allstar

team once.....Chris Gatling made it...Leattner made

it once...Smitty made it once...Big deal.When he is

on there 6-10 times then we will talk.

[swolehawk2]

Would you just quit...look at the tape... was Reef the only person we put on Harrington...look at the tape before you spout your nonsense.

[CHORO44]

I think it's so funny that people still want to trade Reef. I mean come on you have one of the freaking best post players in the game with him. Sure, he is undersized by today's standards and he has a slow developing jump shot but if he isn't doubled in the post it's two points. If you really watch him play closely you'll realize that the players around him are more a problem than he is. For one we don't consistently run plays for him through the post which I believe our new coach is now doing. Second when we do run plays we don't have the kind of players who truly move without the ball. I don't want Reef to ever leave the Hawks but I'd love to see him play for a team like the Kings so the naysayers can just shut up as he averages 24/10.

Also this guy doesn't get nearly the kind of foul calls he should. I've never seen another player get less respect in the post than SAR for all the hardwork he puts into getting position.

Just ask Jamison if Shareef sucks since Shareef pissed on him last year at Golden Staate. Now Jamison is a Power Forward who ain't worth his contract.

If we want to talk players not worth their contract on the Hawks I can list three:

Ratliff

Big Dog

Hendu

Move those guys for Scottie Pippen and let's get this team infused with some real talent.

Guru

[Guest]

Reef was raped...He also got whiped by howard and

others.But you are right..this has been beat to death..

this subject.

[Guest]

Who doesn't take jamsion to the hole?He's

known as one of the worst defenders in the

league.

IF Reef is also matched up with somebody one

on one it is two points because he can't defend.

He couldn't defend a bum like Howard...You know

the bum that only averages 14PPG for Denver.

It's pure laughter how people act like offense is

the only thing that matters.Why don't he play

defense?

Everybody just picks on poor Reef...They just don't

respect him.lol homers

[Diesel]

Gasol.

http://www.nba.com/games/20021111/GSWMEM/boxscore.html

http://www.nba.com/games/20021216/GSWMEM/boxscore.html

[TheDude]

have one bad game against harrington and you'll never live it down...

shareef is good DESPITE being on two sorry teams with sorry coaches...now we have talent we'll be ok...

[Swopa]

First of all, Jamison has been playing SF all year this season. So he hasn't been guarding Gasol or any other PFs.

Second, his defense was awful, but has improved quite a bit this year. He's far from being a stopper, but recently his defense on Morris Peterson and Shawn Marion helped the Warriors beat Toronto and Phoenix, respectively, and he's made key plays on help defense down the stretch of other games.

[Guest]

be ok?They just got their clot cleaned by the

Heat and you think they will be ok?lol

Some Top 5 PF...7 points againest the Heat...

Good job Shareef you go boy all the homers

are pulling for you.

Did you watch tonights game?Nothing further

needs to be said.The Hawks are losers and

they are a embarassment of basketball.If

a fan see the Hawks play in their first game

watching they will never watch another NBA

game again.Sorry excuse for a pro team.

If you call that doing ok....well whatever.

[Guest]

Terry Stotts is just another no namer that Pete

put in charge before he losses his job in the

offseason.I'm sure the hawks will miss out on

a real coach again and choose some lame ass

dude.

Reef sucked even in single coverage.And he

always waits for the double team to come over

before he makes his move.What a retard.

Diesel felt the need to bring Reefs fluke 50

point game up several times so [censored] yeah I

will rub it in Reefs face everytime he gives

up alot which is usally the case.

Hey Diesel take a look at the Hawks schedule

coming up...Looks like you will be the one

eating your words.Dallas/New Jersey/Houston/

New Orleans.The team is fried.

Bye bye Pete.Your run is over and take your

dorky coach with you=)

[Guest]

the team needs to work on figuring out ways to get the ball to Reef in the post. in the Washington game, Reef was lighting it up till they simply stopped the team from making the entry pass.. the same thing happened to a large degree tonight...they just couldn't get the ball to him.

both robinson and reef are best when they can make their move/shoot with a maximum of two dribbles - any more, and count it as a to

[Playmaker0017]

HotLantaDude & Everone Else,

Reef is the man. He doesn't bring it to the table every night, and that is unfortunate. But, it doesn't... for one second make him any less talented.

He can, and has, brought it to the house on the best players in the league CONSISTENTLY! Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Ben Wallace, Antoine Walker... just to name a few players who have been abused and regularly beaten by Shareef. More oft than not, Reef beats these players in every statistical catagory (including Turnover's unfortunately).

I can't even imagine comparing Reef to the undisciplined Walker. He isn't even a TRUE basketball player. Throw his stats up all you want... he stinks. Walker is shooting 38% on the season! That isn't even excusable. Pierce isn't even half the player people give him credit for, either. He could be, but playing the way he is... horrible.

They are ball hogs.

Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan and Chris Webber are all players better than Reef at his position.

But all three are arguably the best players in the ENTIRE game.

Hotlantadude, you are just one of those people that love to spark controversy and haven't had a single constructive thing to say in ANY of your posts.

Shareef is doing better than any Hawk. An argument can be made that he is having his best offensive year. Shareef is averaging 21 points on 14 shot attempts. 14! That is incredible. Imagine if he demanded the ball and shot as much as Walker?

You ask why he isn't averaging 25 points a game... I'll one up you... he ought to be averaging near 30. But, the zone and the Hawks inability to break it, limit Shareef's opportunities. Also, the fact that he is doubled BEFORE the entry pass is made.

Last team to try to beat Shareef one-on-one... the Pistons, with defensive stand-out Ben Wallace. If I remember correctly, he got torched for 50.

In one of your posts you point out Shareef's night against the Heat. A stellar denfensive team, that overplayed Shareef ALL NIGHT. Shareef was getting the double from 15 feet in. Find one PF who can score when that happens.

Your arguments lack any merit and there isn't a team with salary cap room that wouldn't want a player with Shareef's skill set.

Play.

[Guest]

Walker is a better passer...Sadly all the gullible

people here understand is scoring.Reef's a limited

player and everybody but Hawk fans(The 30 of them)

realize this.

" can't even imagine comparing Reef to the undisciplined Walker. He isn't even a TRUE basketball player. Throw his stats up all you want... he stinks. Walker is shooting 38% on the season! That isn't even excusable. Pierce isn't even half the player people give him credit for, either. He could be, but playing the way he is... horrible. "

Then why are the Celtics winning and the Hawks not?Are

you that freakin stupid naturally or did you have your

head slammed againest the wall to many.

I've never seen a place were so many people try and

discredit teams that win to loan biased support to a

12-18 team.What a joke.Btw,The Hawks got schooled

in both games againest the Celtics this year.

"Shareef is doing better than any Hawk. An argument can be made that he is having his best offensive year. Shareef is averaging 21 points on 14 shot attempts. 14! That is incredible. Imagine if he demanded the ball and shot as much as Walker? "

IF he did this....if he did that...guess what he doesn't

so you dont know he can.If he can do it why isn't he?

Reef's doing better than any Hawk?So what,they are

12-18 so what the [censored] is that supposed to mean?

"You ask why he isn't averaging 25 points a game... I'll one up you... he ought to be averaging near 30. But, the zone and the Hawks inability to break it, limit Shareef's opportunities. Also, the fact that he is doubled BEFORE the entry pass is made.'

Excuses,excuses...Poor coaching/doesn't get respect

from the Refs/doesnt get the ball in the right places/

doesn't have enough talent around him.When does

the excuses stop?How man excuses and free passes

does one player get?

"Last team to try to beat Shareef one-on-one... the Pistons, with defensive stand-out Ben Wallace. If I remember correctly, he got torched for 50. "

That was one game.I don't think he has even hit 30

points this years.It was a lucky game and alot of

lucky shots that he normally doesn't make went in.

Antawn Jamison had 2 50 point games.Larry Hughes

scored 45 againest the Lakers.Tony Delk had 50

points.big Deal.

"Your arguments lack any merit and there isn't a team with salary cap room that wouldn't want a player with Shareef's skill set."

As a first option?Do you think any team would want Reef

for a first option?He is the Hawks best player and look

at their record.He's just like Vin Baker...had a bunch of

good years on bad teams.

Reef is just like Vin Baker was with the Bucks.Losing

seasons.The team often gets down big in games and

then scores meaningless points that dont effect the

outcome of the game.Just like the Heat game.He had

only 7 points til the Heat ran the lead up.