Peter Vescey's article on the hawks.

[jerrywest]

http://www.nypost.com/sports/52164.htm

SO, the great Lon Kruger era is over in Atlanta. I guess, if management is going to be like that and hold a 69-122 record in 2-plus seasons against him, who am I to disrespect its corporate decision?

"We don't make decisions," I think I overheard team president Stan Kasten say, "We make excuses."

If you take what Shareef Abdur-Rahim and at least one disciple advocates as dogma, Kruger was a poor excuse for a coach. Shortly before being asked to turn in what passed for the Hawks' playbook, Kruger's professional reputation was ravaged by Atlanta's most influential player, who accused him of improperly preparing the team.

Considering that preparing a team kinda what coaches are expected (and paid) to do above everything else, except for winning, Shareef's charge is rather detrimental to Kruger's career.

If true (Kasten and GM Pete Babcock evidently placed some credence in it), you've got to wonder why it took so long for those two brain busters to pick up on such a significant shortcoming?

If true, why wasn't it uncovered before management completed yet another backward hiring (how many missed swings do Kasten and Babcock get?) and wasted another two-to-three seasons? In other words, when Kruger was being romanced (as management's third or fourth choice) to leave college, didn't his recruiters have a clue he'd be out of his element in the pros?

If true, I don't recall a single soul who covered the team on a regular or irregular basis during Kruger's pithy period in power writing one word suggesting such a fatal flaw. At the same time, at least one Atlanta beat guy pretended to know what was going on behind the screens in Indiana, falsely indicting Isiah Thomas of not working hard or communicating with the Pacers.

If true, nobody around the Hawks seemed to notice. That is, unless perhaps an assistant coach alerted Kasten and Babcock and they attempted a cover up, hoping to buy time while they improved Kruger's talent ore (Glenn Robinson) and support system: Terry Stotts, Alex English and Dominique Wilkins. Is that why Ricky Mahorn wasn't invited back? Long before Shareef, he recognized and spoke the truth regarding Kruger's NBA deficiencies.

True or untrue, at what point will Shareef ever become vaguely accountable for the rapidly growing vacant lot of losses his teams have compiled in Vancouver and Atlanta? Will it ever become at least partially his fault that every coach he's had can't come close to achieving so much as mediocrity, yet his maxed-out salary continues to mount?

The Kings lose the seventh game of the western finals to the Lakers and Chris Webber is ripped as a fake franchise player. The Timberwolves can't advance past the first round of the playoffs during Kevin Garnett's reign and he's berated as a counterfeit superstar. Karl Malone comes up lame at crunch time of championship games and he's branded as bogus.

Meanwhile, this is Shareef's seventh season ($12.4 million/$13.5M in '03-04/$14.6M the next) and all he has to show for his puffed-up proficiency is an Olympic gold medal. As the Hawks' leading man, it's only fair that we stop laying off losses on his coaches and the supporting cast; he's overdue to take ultimate responsibility.

That's not the only irrefutable reality from where I'm grousing. Unless Shareef suddenly sprouts a slayer's signature, Stotts owns supernatural motivational gifts and Jason Terry can play both guard positions at the same time, the Hackneyed Hawks conspicuously continue to lack a conqueror and charisma; a winning parlay fans (white and black) can't possibly ignore, even if the standings don't swear to it.

By the way, don't believe what you may have heard about Stotts and George Karl parting as enemies after years of bonding in the CBA and NBA. Should Karl, whose Bucks are performing like his World Games team, get fired, I'm told Stotts wouldn't hesitate to hire him as the Hawks' workout coach.

*

After his Rockets (misfiring at a franchise low 29.5-percent FG clip) were embarrassed and embalmed by the Knicks, 99-83, Rudy Tomjanovich apologized to Calvin Murphy, one billion Chinese and Kermit Washington.

Yao Ming (17 points, five boards) claimed he was still confused following the team Christmas party at the Compaq Center where kids came and hung candy canes on him.

Nice to see the Celtics didn't have a Holiday hangover from their 36-point Christmas catastrophe in Jersey. The Vitamin C's went to Miami Friday and lost by 20, shooting less than 28 percent (Antoine Walker and Paul Pierce combined for 9-27), putting up a manly nine points in the fourth.

FYI: Shaq did not leave his feet during his wedding ceremony.

Did you see where Wilt Chamberlain's Philly (Overbrook) schoolboy career scoring mark was overshadowed by Maureece Davis of Strawberry Mansion H.S.? Upon surpassing Wilt's 2,206 points, Davis was mobbed by teammates, students and 20,001 women.

This just in: Stotts has guaranteed Hawks season ticket holders a $125 refund if they don't beat the Bucks in their season series.

[KB21]

1. I think Peter has a point on Shareef. Many, many comments have been made about Shareef and his need to start taking the leadership role of this team and demanding the ball more. It may not be a coincidence that in the Hawks 12 wins, SAR averages 24 ppg. In their 17 losses, he averages 18 ppg.

2. Despite what happens the rest of the year, Pete Babcock and Stan Kasten should be relieved of their duties. Hopefully, the team will be sold so this will happen. But, even if this team makes the playoffs, Babcock has had too many blunders to keep his job despite his putting together a talented team. The entire Lon Kruger fiasco should be the nail in the coffin. The fact that he hired him in the first place as well as the fact that he refused to listen to an assistant coach (Rick Mahorn) when he alerted the brass on Lon's shortcomings as a coach.

[chillzatl]

I just don't think he has the work ethic to stay at that level. I'm not saying he's a slob or he doesn't work hard. I do think he works hard. But he's not putting in the work to be a superstar, which is what it takes. Lots of players give 100% out there. It's a superstar that gives 110%. I just don't think he's commited to working consistantly to get over that level.

He'll come out some nights and you just see the fire in his eyes. He's fighting his way into into the pain, fighting for position, fighting on D, everything. And some nights you can see that he just doesn't want it that bad. He's not calling for the ball, he's not fighting guys to get in the paint etc. The former usually results in 28/11 games. The latter in 21/7 games. That's a big difference in stats and a big difference in the attention he draws from opposing teams.

I love shareefs game and I'm very glad we have him. So again this isn't a big knock on shareef. But I agree with Vescey that he should be able to step it up. He's got teh talent. I just don't think he has the desire.

[Guest]

I agree,but phycially Reef doesn't have what it

takes to be a superstar and it doesn't seem he

wants it bad enough.That is one reason the Hawks

are screwed.It will be 2 more years til Reef and

Big Dog are off the books then they are gone.

[Jamil]

In reply to:

---

how many missed swings do Kasten and Babcock get?

---

I was asking this question back when Lenny was exiled.

How many coaches must be fired before we fire the people hiring these coaches?

It is no different than giving a coach new/different players or changing his assistant coaches. At some point you are going to change the coach.

Well, at some point you must change the GM/President. When he's been given X amount of coaches who have accomplished nothing, then you must move on to a new GM.

In reply to:

---

Is that why Ricky Mahorn wasn't invited back? Long before Shareef, he recognized and spoke the truth regarding Kruger's NBA deficiencies.

---

The circumstances surrounding Mahorn's departure were very hush hush. In fact even after he was fired, people were still talking about him here as if he were a member of the staff. It wasn't exactly publicized. Perhaps Babcock should've listened to Rick more closely at the time because he obviously eventually saw what Rick saw.

In reply to:

---

Meanwhile, this is Shareef's seventh season ($12.4 million/$13.5M in '03-04/$14.6M the next) and all he has to show for his puffed-up proficiency is an Olympic gold medal. As the Hawks' leading man, it's only fair that we stop laying off losses on his coaches and the supporting cast; he's overdue to take ultimate responsibility.

---

SAR might be the highest paid complimentary player in history. Sure people will say that that's just the way he is...I say that a max dollar player should be one of two things at minumum.

1. An impact player who can by himself make a team better and those around him better. Be a leader on the court.

2. A player who brings crowds out and can alone sell tickets.

He is neither. He's not a player who has much of an impact on the team. In there or not, the Hawks are still a lottery team...as was the case in Vancouver. And he doesn't sell tickets. Attendance has actually dropped since his arrival and it was so bad when he was in Vancouver that the team had to move.

[chillzatl]

you may not like his game, obviously you don't. But wishing him gone is dumb. He isn't Tim Duncan, but who is. There are only 2-3 PF's in the league that are doing better than Reef.

Physically he's more than capable of being a superstar. It's all about desire. he could be unstoppable every night if he had the desire.

[Guest]

Reef doesn't play at a high enough level every night

and he simply isn;t as good as you think.Other fans

see it and it really isn't that hard.He has been unable

to improve the team like Vancouver need improved

his whole time there.He doesn't make a impact on

defense either.He's got too big of a salary also.

There is alot better PF than Reef and he pays the

price for not improving the team this year....Diesel

acted like Reef would be a 25PPG player this year...

for his lack of improvement he falls behind even

Antonie Walker.

Face it,Reef has never really improved a team...The

Hawks won the bulk of their games last year when

the season was basically over and there was less

pressure....

Tim Duncan

Kevin Garnett

Antoine Walker

Jermaine O'neal

Chris Webber

Pau Gasol

Rasheed Wallace

Dirk Nowtiski

Karl Malone(He's still winning while all Reef does is

lose)

Elton Brand-He actuallt grabs over 10RPG while Reef

is stuck at 7RPG

Shawn Marion

Get over it,The news guys know Reef isn't that good,

fans of other teams know it......He hasn't had a winning

season in his career and likely never will have...He does

n't grab over 10RPG,he's not a top 10 scorer in the

league and he disappears too much.

[cyman3]

SAR gets doubled team and sometimes triple teamed... there is a reason why! hes that good! in the east, i think him/Oneal/Walker/McDysse (if healthy) are the 4 best PFs in the game.

before u dog on SAR for making us LOSERS... think about the other players u mentioned

- Duncan is clearly better than SAR so im not going to say more.

- Garnett is clearly better than SAR, but his contract says hes 2 times better. I disagree, while i think hes better... i think we are better off with SAR and his contract.

- Walker- does this guy even see DOUBLE TEAMS? not to mention, he has a guy JUST AS GOOD AS HIM IF NOT BETTER on his team named PAUL "THE TRUTH (nicknamed after SHAQ)" PEIRCE! give us PEIRCE and we would be winners too!

- Oneal- looking at stats, u can debate whos better or not. To me, i couldnt tell u whos better cuz they are in the same TIER. I would love to have Brad Miller/Reggie Miller/Ron Artest/Jamaal Tinsley than JT/Ratliff/and the other starting scrubs.

- Chris Webber is better, but he has more help than us. He has a very talented team.

- Gasol is not better and im not going to say more on that

- Wallace (IMO) is better, but trade him for SAR... and it would be no different. We would be the same team, while Portland has the better record

- Malone was better, i dont think hes better anymore but he still got game

- Brand hasnt been on a winning team either! clips are out of the playoff race in the west right now and as a BULL he had the same impact as SAR

- Marion is just as good as Shareef... imo (at his respectable position of course)

all im saying is....

1) Unless u can formulate a trade that get us a better PF... we should stick with SAR. I mean, on single coverage, this guy is capable of scoring 50 points every night.

After SAR, whos our best player? Big Hog or JT (who was never an allstar)...

[Blunt91]

I agree with you 100% Cyman.

[Guest]

SAR gets doubled team and sometimes triple teamed... there is a reason why! hes that good! in the east, i think him/Oneal/Walker/McDysse (if healthy) are the 4 best PFs in the game."

Of course...He has terrible handles and often gets

striped of the ball...Why not pound on him?He also

never looks to pass so that makes him easier to

shutdown.Most of those guys do things better than

Reef....

O'Neal is a better shot blocker/Rebounder and he can

play PF or C without being a libility.

Walker

21PPG

9RPG

5APG

2.1 steals

Is there any other PF that averages 2 steals/5 assist

a game PLUS rebounding and scoring?When he plays

the post Walker is just as good as Reef when he goes

to the post.

Gasol is a better shot blocker and brings more size and

he is developing and Memphis has actually been improving

over the last few weeks while the Hawks continue to

spin wheels in the mud.

Marion is a better rebounder/blocker/more steals and his

scoring ability is increasing every season.And you can't

teach athletic ability.He averages 3RPG more than Reef

as a small forward.

Brand is simply a better defender/shot blocker and one

of the best rebounders in the league.

These guys just make a bigger impact.All you do is

look at stats....but Reef is just scoring on a bad team

that often gets beat by 10 points or more.

[cyman3]

all i know is that SAR has played up to our expectations this year...

but Stotts in charge and hes gonna change all that.

Ok, suppose we do trade SAR. Who is our next best inside presence? ALAN HENDERSON or THEO RATLIFF! do u really want to rely on HENDERSON and RATLIFF?

just sit back and relax... ever since Stotts took over, we had very close games. That means, COMPETITION is back in the philips arena!

- i hope he stops playing like a regular good starting PF and go back to becomin that UNSTOPABLE PF that scored 50 on BEN WALLACE!....

[Guest]

For his salary he doesnt produce enough.He's like

one of the top 5 highest paid players.He isn't having

such a great year.Just the same old stuff on a losing

team.The team has got no better since he has been

here.

Stotts isn't going to have this team winning.They are

too flawed.A undersized SG...a CBA talent at PG...A

SF with a limited game...A center Theo that has been

rather unproductive.

The team is dead and its full of overrated players which

even I overrated them myself for a while.NOT ANY MORE.

[Guest]

It's not just Reef..The WHOLE TEAM has also

been a disappointment.

[Diesel]

Walker does have Pierce. And Walker is more of a Sf playing PF. He can shoot from outside and nobody will ever double him outside.

Gasol doesn't have the physical ability or the offense that Reef possesses. There are complaints about Gasol now. He's like fools gold. They say he's good but he's holding back the progress of Gooden. Imagine that, an American player better than a foriegn rookie of the yr. They say that he doesn't have the Pfs game and he's not fast enough to be a Sf.

Marion is a gifted Sf. But he's not all that you talked about.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shawn_marion...x.html?nav=page

First, yes his scoring did go up for the last three yrs.... But so also did his MINUTES. In fact, it's proportional as you would expect any players to be. Also, his rebounding is great (it's dropping) but there's a reason for that too. NAME On rebounder on Phoenix's team?

http://www.nba.com/suns/stats/

After Stoudamire, there's NO one around until you get to 6 rpg.

Their starting C big Joke Averages 3.5 rpg.

Brand is probably the most inconsistent player playing. Statwise, his rebounding and blocks look great. But why aren't the Clipps winning? If you hold that measure up to SAR, why not Brand? They have more talent in LAC than us and they are worst than us. Why doesn't Brand Step up?

[Guest]

Gasol doesn't have the physical ability or the offense that Reef possesses. There are complaints about Gasol now. He's like fools gold. They say he's good but he's holding back the progress of Gooden. Imagine that, an American player better than a foriegn rookie of the yr. They say that he doesn't have the Pfs game and he's not fast enough to be a Sf."

Gasol is the better player...He's younger and brings more

size to the table and can play 3 positions....And he can

block shots and he will only get better..While Reef gets

rejected by Jerry Stackhouse str8 up.What a puss...Reef

gets stuffed by SG's.

"

Walker does have Pierce. And Walker is more of a Sf playing PF. He can shoot from outside and nobody will ever double him outside. "

But then they have [censored] for the rest of the team.Even

without Pierce Boston would still beat the Hawks and

they did at the end of last year....

"Marion is a gifted Sf. But he's not all that you talked about.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shawn_marion...x.html?nav=page

First, yes his scoring did go up for the last three yrs.... But so also did his MINUTES. In fact, it's proportional as you would expect any players to be. Also, his rebounding is great (it's dropping) but there's a reason for that too. NAME On rebounder on Phoenix's team?"

the Suns are winning...And like I said...you can't teach

athletic ability...plus Marion is such a better defender.

I mean after Reefs 20 points what else is so great?There

is nothing impressive about a PF getting 7 rebounds

a game.Nothing impressive about it.

Just like your theory about Big Dog opening things up

and Reef killing people...Well he hasn't done it yet.

Brand is better than Reef because he rebounds better

and he is just a better overall player.

Reef is overrated...But so is Theo/JT/Big Dog so that

is the way it is.

[Guest]

And like I told you before...Watch Marion play...then

watch Reef play....Reef isn't really that close.

[Blunt91]

to block shots heck he is 7'0feet at that size he should be able to grab more rebounds than Reef also. The kid has talent but he is still a soft player.

[Guest]

Correct....He has size...You can't teach size!=)

[Diesel]

He's soft.

You say he plays 3 positions. Which ones? If you think PF/SF/C... Then [censored], Hendu also plays 3 positions. However, how many does Gasol play well? He's a good PF. Not an allstar and never will be an allstar PF. But a good one. His ability to play 3 positions doesn't really speak to his versatility because he would be a horrid C... It speaks to him being a Tweener. I doubt he would be a very good SF either. However, he has size. Therefore he should be a better rebounder and Shot blocker.

However, put Gasol and Reef one on one or let them play the same people one on one. While Gasol needs others to help his game get started and rarely sees double team play. Reef sees lots of double teams. Reef would destroy the defenses that Gasol plays against.

[TheDude]

i can't beleive i'm hearing people say shareef doesn't have good enough stats... you would those same people who say elton brand doesn't do enough...

yes if he sweated out every night, he'd be a superstar..he has the talent...

hello? he just scored was it 10,000 points...he's among like 6 or 7 people that has done that before age 27(or something like that)..please..