I know a lot of poster won't like this but

[Packfill]

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LOL you have got to be kidding me. Other than last night, Smoove has scored more and shot a higher percentage in every pre-season game than Marvin this year. You Marvin lovers are killing me. I don't understand why you guys want one guy to fail so the other can do well. It's crazy talk. Marvin has played well in the pre season also. They both have played well.

Josh Vs Marvin this pre-season

PPG

12.5 vs 12.8 Marvin is clearly the best player look he average .3 more points a game. LMFAO

FG%

474% vs 442% Yep I see your point Smith is a terrible shooter.

3p%

438%(7/16) vs 1000%(1/1) Everyone knows Marvin will keep this percentage up. And Smith obviously needs to stop shooting threes.

FT%

875% vs 833%

Rebs per

4.30 vs 5.00

APG

2.3 vs 2.2

SPG

.75 vs 1.00

BPG

1.00 vs 1.00

Again there is no basis for these constant rants. These guys are a statistical push as of now. Both look good to me and I want both on the court when possible. Obviously Smooth is going to block more shots in the long run, and Marvin will get to the line more. Why because thats their respective games.

On top of that Smoove has proven he can knock down clutch shots, in real NBA games(not preaseason).

On a side note. I think Claxton will help Smoove more than any other player on this team.

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Do we all have memory problems? Smoove posted MUCH better numbers across the board last year in real games. Does anyone really think his statistics in these pre-season games are more important in terms of determining who should and who should not play then real live game production?

At the end of last season Smoove was clearly the second best player on the floor for the Hawks. To me, that means something. He starts until Sheldon or Marvin outplay him in real games. If they do, great, we have a great asset to trade.

[SmooveTheFuture]

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to go around for Smoove, Marvin and Shelden.

The fact that we are discussing the idea that all 3 of these guys might warrant starter's minutes is a good thing in my opinion because in theory, there should not be a significant dropoff when one of them goes to the bench.

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Its not a matter of just dividing up minutes. Its a matter of who goes up against who. The other team's 1st string power forward may be strong for Smoove to rebound against but the back up may not be. This is why it may be better for him to come off the bench.

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One bad game and the move Smith from our starter talks begin. What exactly has the great Marvin Williams done so far for you to have a constent hard on for him 24-7 give it a rest already. Your going based on preseason talk to me when Shelden does it the regular season every night. Smith based on what he did last year should be the starter if your telling me a guy whose 23 years and had 1 double and some 10/8 whose a rookie deserves to start over a player who many think is the face of the franchise along with Joe Johnson and Marvin. Also that came on strong at the 2nd half of the year that will not sit well with the fans one bit they come to the arena to get excited and see entermainment that is what Smith is to this team. Lets throw a guy under the bus to because he's had a bad game its preseason hello. Its obvious your fantasy for Marvin Williams is very strong that you think hes gonna be the next Lebron James and your dislike for Josh Smith is evident in almost every post you write. But we dont need to hear about it every 15 mins.

[Weez]

actually, with everyone talking about how Marvin and JoJo are the only ones that can 'really create their own shot' and how much Marvin's abilities have matured...it actually makes more sense to bring Marvin off the bench (i.e. letting Smoove play with someone who will more consistently draw a double team and can create for others) than come off the bench (as he's not considered 'instant firepower/offensive spark) ~ the latter would more (in this mindset) be applied to Marvin...

[Packfill]

Just checked: Josh Smith average 17.5 points per game during the month of April last season!

[bootsybug]

We will start with a line up of Speedy, Joe, MW, JS, and Zaza.

The bottom line is that if JS keeps jacking up threes and cannot stop power forwards, Shelden will have to get the majority of the minutes at the 4. Now whether that means that cuts into MW's or JS's minutes, that's to be seen.

Woody showed last year that he isn't afraid to shuffle the lineup early in the season. Heck, even Estaban started 3 games! Remember Chill was starting for us and JS was on the bench? It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out, but if benching JS or anybody else makes us a better team, I'm all for it! But like I said, it's JS's job to lose.

[Peoriabird]

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Just checked: Josh Smith average 17.5 points per game during the month of April last season!

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I need to get this straight. Are we arguing that Smoove should start at Small forward or Power forward? Is it Marvin you want on the bench or shelden?

[bootsybug]

I don't know what's right or wrong, but whoever provides best interior defense will probably start by the 1/4 season mark.

[Peoriabird]

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I don't know what's right or wrong, but whoever provides best interior defense will probably start by the 1/4 season mark.

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Why would you experiment and wait until things go bad before you implement a sound defensive strategy? Every game is crucial for the Hawks this year.

[Packfill]

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Just checked: Josh Smith average 17.5 points per game during the month of April last season!

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I need to get this straight. Are we arguing that Smoove should start at Small forward or Power forward? Is it Marvin you want on the bench or shelden?

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I don't care where Smoove starts (though I think he is more of a small forward then power forward), nor do I care who starts with him. Rather, I think the battle for the other starting position is between Sheldon and Marvin.

I just think those games played in April are more indicative of Smoove's ability then these pre-season games, so in that sense his starting spot should be secure for now. If Marvin and Sheldon surpase him during the season fine.

[bootsybug]

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I don't know what's right or wrong, but whoever provides best interior defense will probably start by the 1/4 season mark.

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Why would you experiment and wait until things go bad before you implement a sound defensive strategy? Every game is crucial for the Hawks this year.

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I'm not telling you what I would or wouldn't do, but what I anticipate will happen It took Chill a 1/4 of season of ineffective play as a starter to be benched, and the he found his role.

No one knows what starting line-up will give us the best chance to win yet, we'll have to wait and see how the actual games play out. If it doesn't work, then adjust.

Like I said, whoever plays the best interior defense at the 4 position I think gives us the best chance to win.

[Peoriabird]

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I don't care where Smoove starts (though I think he is more of a small forward then power forward), nor do I care who starts with him. Rather, I think the battle for the other starting position is between Sheldon and Marvin.

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Are you interested in wins or just seeing Josh Smith play? Not everyone can win like Phoenix who just throw atheletes in the game regardless of their natural position to play with Nash. Most teams need a power forward that can rebound and play rugged interior defense. Shelden has demonstrated that he can do that at the NBA level. Josh Smith and Marvin Williams have not.

So it come down to in my opinion who plays Small forward. Marvin has much better skill sets to compete with starters at the Small forward position. Many players can get garbage points and hit shots to pad their stats. Hedo Turkoglu is a prime example. But does Turkoglu have the kind of skills to make him an elite small forward? No! But Marvin does.

[Peoriabird]

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Like I said, whoever plays the best interior defense at the 4 position I think gives us the best chance to win.

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Don't we already know the answer to this question?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Just checked: Josh Smith average 17.5 points per game during the month of April last season!

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I need to get this straight. Are we arguing that Smoove should start at Small forward or Power forward? Is it Marvin you want on the bench or shelden?

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I don't care where Smoove starts (though I think he is more of a small forward then power forward), nor do I care who starts with him. Rather, I think the battle for the other starting position is between Sheldon and Marvin.

I just think those games played in April are more indicative of Smoove's ability then these pre-season games, so in that sense his starting spot should be secure for now. If Marvin and Sheldon surpase him during the season fine.

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Check Smoove's numbers in April 2005. You may be surprised at what you see.

Compare those numbers, with what he did in November and December of 2005.

[bootsybug]

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Like I said, whoever plays the best interior defense at the 4 position I think gives us the best chance to win.

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Don't we already know the answer to this question?

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Yes Peoria, we do. The good news for JS fans (and I am a big Josh fan) is whether he starts or not, he will get loads of minutes anyway. Same goes for Marvin.

[Peoriabird]

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Don't we already know the answer to this question?

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Yes Peoria, we do. The good news for JS fans (and I am a big Josh fan) is whether he starts or not, he will get loads of minutes anyway. Same goes for Marvin.

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This is true!

[unknownjdb]

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On a side note. I think Claxton will help Smoove more than any other player on this team.

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Agreed. COMPLETELY!

[unknownjdb]

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...it is obvious that neither Smoove nor Marvin could effectively rebound with Josh Howard in the game.

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Dwight Howard, don't you mean?

[unknownjdb]

Peoriabird is placing Smoove into the scapegoat role. He will be the Harrington, Walker, JT, etc. of this year. Battle lines are being drawn between Marvin fans and Smoove fans. We are Hawks divided instead of Hawks united.

I call b*llsh*t on Peoriabird.

Why start this battle? Why not just enjoy the talent that we have? Someone will start, someone will come off the bench, but EVERYONE who PRODUCES will PLAY. It's as simple as that.

As a follow-up, I did believe that both Walker and Harrington would be an addition by subtraction.

[bootsybug]

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Peoriabird is placing Smoove into the scapegoat role. He will be the Harrington, Walker, JT, etc. of this year. Battle lines are being drawn between Marvin fans and Smoove fans. We are Hawks divided instead of Hawks united.

I call b*llsh*t on Peoriabird.

Why start this battle? Why not just enjoy the talent that we have? Someone will start, someone will come off the bench, but EVERYONE who PRODUCES will PLAY. It's as simple as that.

As a follow-up, I did believe that both Walker and Harrington would be an addition by subtraction.

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I know Peoria can defend himself, but he's certainly entitled to his opinion without it being called BS. On top of that, Peoria makes all valid points, you don't have to agree with him.

Josh starting at the 4 may or may not be the best thing for this team. Maybe it's better for him to come off the bench like Chill. Or maybe it's better if Chill starts and MW comes off the bench. The chemistry will sort itself out over time.

The one big thing that we lacked last year was interior play, and that's what Shelden brings.

I am a positive Hawks fan, and I believe Peoria is too. What I interpret Peoria as saying is that we have enough talented guys on this team (for the first time in a long time) that we can FINALLY have some real talent coming off the bench! Who cares if Josh starts or not - I don't - as long as the team plays hard every night and as a cohesive unit, it doesn't matter.

Like I said, Shelden, MW and the Joshes will all get major minutes anyway.

[Guest Walter]

...into the arms of another team and maybe all of them. Jerk them around enough and they may all look elsewhere. These are our top picks we are running off. You can't run such interdependent rotations as if they are so easily managable. At every position a player's minutes are dependent upon another positions's rotation. That's a problem with the "versatility" notion. If Za Za and Lo man the C position, SW plays alot of Pf, then JS plays alot of Sf then, Childress plays alot less, then Salim plays none (it works poorly in a variety of ways). Throw in the "we'll play them according to match-ups" variable and we're letting other teams dictate our game, playing defensive, not as familiar with our lineup from one game to the next, and consistently confusing and rubbing our young players the wrong way. You can't balance "winning" by presumably playing primarily to match-ups and "player developing" by presumably maintaining consistent, including important, minutes with well-defined roles. The two won't jive.

SW is a pure Pf and is developed as a former college senior for a major team but he isn't remotely as talented as either MW or JS. We either must find a way to make MW and SW work (dominate center prospect) or trade one of them for equal talent at a position of need. Otherwise we won't put enough talent on the court with SW or we won't have enough size with JS and MW to contend.

Making MPG work is not a good problem for teams to have when they are in essence being interviewed by the young players they are often snubbing with individual after individual drafted to replace them and MPG and opportunities denied as a result.

I digress a bit here. It's not even about this year except for Woody's and IMO BK's job. But all the moves this year were designed for this year and not title contention. We'll wonder why we never made it past mediocrity should BK continue like this.

W