Diesel's take on the Toronto game...

[Diesel]

1. We have to get better with our transition defense. Most of Toronto's runs came when Bosh beat his man down the floor.

2. I don't know if Smoove's threes are a good thing. When he hits them I'm glad... But most of the time, his feet are glued to that three point line. I think he's more effective moving towards the goal. Like it or not, we need Speedy.

3. We need Speedy

I was watching how TJ Ford caused our defense to collapse leaving wide open shots for Jones and Calderon. Ford was just superquick. He blew past Bozeman... We need that same type of PG play. I like Lue, But Lue stops the ball, pounds the ball and puts up too many threes... I think when we get Speedy and Marvin Back... we're going to be a force.

4. I like Bozeman

He doesn't do anything exceptional except play defense. If Marvin and Speedy came back tommorow.. I'd send Freije to NBADL.

5. The JJ crossover

Can JJ get recognition for being a very good ball handler? He shook Graham out of his shoes!

Gameballs go to Woody, JJ, and Smoove.

Strange... But our defense got better when Zaza hit the floor!!!

[KB21]

I didn't get to watch this game, but transition defense was not a problem for the Hawks in the first four games. Toronto probably has more ability to get out and run than the teams the Hawks faced up until that point.

I don't have a problem with Josh shooting the three pointers. I do have a problem with his tendency to NOT move without the ball and linger around the three point line. He's a very versatile player, and his game will take off when he decides to start slashing more often and develop his post game.

Speedy is definitely the point man for the Hawks defense. That guy is a great defender on the perimeter and on the break. It very well may be the case that the Hawks transition defense wasn't quite as good against Toronto because Speedy wasn't out there guarding TJ Ford.

Cedric Bozeman is quickly becoming one of my favorite players on the team.

[Lascar78]

For once I agree on all 5 points. Particularly Smith shooting 3s. This is going to be a big issue for us. He REALLY needs to practice driving the lane and taking the contact. If he's going to be a long term success with Marvin here, it has to be a big part of his game. His body is built for it. He can float around the perimeter and then slash, but he shouldn't be parked on the perimeter, waiting for a ball to jack a three up. I think if he just stays on the perimeter, things are going to get very interesting once Marvin gets back.

Why is it that big men always want to act like little men and jack 3s, and little men always want to act like big men and take it to the post??

[HawksFan87]

Smoove is playing SF with Marvin out , he has been mixing it up taking it to the hole. The Three's he shot where all huge shots for us. So complain all you want because if he would'nt have hit them our lead would'nt have been so big. He has been driving the basket more which open's up teh perimter game for players.

[Diesel]

I love Josh Smith. Out of his draft, I wanted him or Howard above everybody else... I believe that we didn't need to go out and get Marvin because of the presence of Josh.

BUT......

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The Three's he shot where all huge shots for us. So complain all you want because if he would'nt have hit them our lead would'nt have been so big.

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I don't disagree. Hell, I credit SMoove for ending the Toronto's runs and it was with those threes.. But he also missed a few. I love him having the three point shot in his arsenal... but I hate to see him parking his butt on the three point line every play.

His best play last night was when he actually became a Sf and came off the wing when JJ drove and finish with that huge slam!!!

Now, Childress.. He gets it. Even though Childress is limited shooting and size, Childress knows how to find the ball!! If you ever watched Childress, he's the best Mover without the ball this ballclub has had since.... ever... A guy who can move without the ball is a guy who can always find himself in the position to score. Why can't Smoove see that?

Moreover, somebody needs to work with Smoove's ball handling.. God.. when he was stripped and fell down.... I was embarrassed for him!

[gsuteke]

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I love Josh Smith. Out of his draft, I wanted him or Howard above everybody else... I believe that we didn't need to go out and get Marvin because of the presence of Josh.

BUT......

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The Three's he shot where all huge shots for us. So complain all you want because if he would'nt have hit them our lead would'nt have been so big.

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I don't disagree. Hell, I credit SMoove for ending the Toronto's runs and it was with those threes.. But he also missed a few. I love him having the three point shot in his arsenal... but I hate to see him parking his butt on the three point line every play.

His best play last night was when he actually became a Sf and came off the wing when JJ drove and finish with that huge slam!!!

Now, Childress.. He gets it. Even though Childress is limited shooting and size, Childress knows how to find the ball!! If you ever watched Childress, he's the best Mover without the ball this ballclub has had since.... ever... A guy who can move without the ball is a guy who can always find himself in the position to score. Why can't Smoove see that?

Moreover, somebody needs to work with Smoove's ball handling.. God.. when he was stripped and fell down.... I was embarrassed for him!

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after watching the 4th quarter last night I suddenly realized that I just wasn't getting what Billy must have been seeing.

The Hawks are a perimeter team.

I'm no longer going to badmouth J Smoove for chucking those 3s, they're a vital part of his game. Smoove has no post game, in fact nobody on the team really does as of right now.

The Hawks are a perimter based shooting team that likes to slash to the basket with Joe and Zaza. our inside game is created off of dump off passes created by slashing to the basket.

On the defensive end it seems our defense has improved once again on the perimeter. also we have a couple of guys who aren't afraid to challenge an offensive player in the box.

It's freakish to imagine how good Marvin will be in this particular system with his handles. That play Diesel points out where Smoove looked silly trying to drive Marvin would have blew past his guy and either wound up with a bucket, free throws, or both.

I say we just accept these guys for who they are.....

Your 1st place Atlanta Hawks!

[Diesel]

Accept?

Perimeter teams get killed in the playoffs. Do you know why?

The game is slowed down... and if you don't have a player capable of either having a post presence or creating openings with his drive.. then you're going to lose.

You're right. Right now, we are a perimeter team. Talentwise however, we have the ability to be much much more.

It's not that I'm saying that Smoove should become Dr. J. (although that would be nice).. I'm saying that Smoove should not get caught up into being a three point shooter only...

[TheDude]

i agree with all your points but I would like to keep Freije. His shot isnt falling right now but he's a scorer so I feel they will begin to fall soon. He's getting good looks and once they start falling, that will bring a whole new aspect to our offense, especially when Joe is out.

[KB21]

Very good points.

It seems that when the Hawks post up, they do it with Joe Johnson in the post. And when that happens, he's typically running the offense from the post, because we always have slashers going to the basket. I also think this is why it is very important for Speedy Claxton to get back up to speed with this team, because a penetrate and kick point guard like Speedy is just what this offense needs.

You are exactly right. The Hawks are a jump shooting team, and the amazing thing is, you don't see them taking very many bad shots. It's a small sample size, but the Hawks have improved their offensive output by more than 6 points so far. Last season, they averaged right at 91 points per game. So far this year, the Hawks are averaging right at 97 points per game.

The biggest change has been defensively though. The Hawks have improved from allowing around 102 PPG last season to allowing right at 91 PPG......and that was pumped up because Toronto scored 102 last night. I think our perimeter defense has improved because those guys no longer fear putting some pressure on the basketball. Our improved interior defense has allowed them to do that, IMO. It really helps when you have a great defender at the point position like Speedy as well.

[gsuteke]

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Accept?

Perimeter teams get killed in the playoffs. Do you know why?

The game is slowed down... and if you don't have a player capable of either having a post presence or creating openings with his drive.. then you're going to lose.

You're right. Right now, we are a perimeter team. Talentwise however, we have the ability to be much much more.

It's not that I'm saying that Smoove should become Dr. J. (although that would be nice).. I'm saying that Smoove should not get caught up into being a three point shooter only...

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ahhh a championship team?

would you not agree this team is still quite flawed? i think they are. in fact i think they are atleast 2 new players away from being in the contender discussion along with the obvious need to develop who we have.

We need a big man. a dominant big man. I've got no problems with Zaza, but we are talking championship right? I'm also not convinced our PG situation has been fixed long term. there are the two missing pieces.

now we have to develop Smoove, Shelden, Marvin, and Chillz. Shelden along with this mysterious big man are our post options we currently lack. If Marvin is to be that consenus "best player in the draft" he'll have to take his game to another level, and the addition of some post up moves may be the answer. I don't think Smoove is our post answer Diesel. his skillset is that of a wing with great highlight reel backside help defense instincts. that's what he is. we'd probably be better off getting him someone to work with his handles before hiring someone to make him into a post player. I am very happy with Chillz' progression. That kid is what championship teams are made of. he contributes just about everywhere on the floor.

until we get those 2 pieces though I believe we are and will continue to be a perimeter team. it's a work in progress. why fight it?

[gsuteke]

I am not suggesting we trade any of our current pieces. I am suggest Billy needs to find a couple of key players to add into the mix who compliment our current core.

you need 10 good players to win a championship with a couple of great players sprinkled in that mix. we've got

Joe

Lue

Speedy

Shellhead

Marvin

Smoove

Chillz

Zaza

as these guys get better let's add the key players i've mentioned to give them a little help.

[BossTweed]

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Why is it that big men always want to act like little men and jack 3s, and little men always want to act like big men and take it to the post??

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Because they feel they have an advantage over the defender in a situation the defender doesn't expect or isn't as familiar with.

When I'm playing ball, I'm usually one of the taller guys on the team. If I have a size advantage at all, I will be posting up a lot. If the defender is particularly big or particularly scrappy and won't let me get position, I end up moving around and taking some outside shots till they have to respect those. Generally, they will let you take quite a few before they guard you close outside. Also, it draws them away from the basket for their defense and rebounding, although it also means you are away from the basket for your O rebounding.

Of course, that only works if you make your outside shots.

[HawksFan87]

It's only 5 games, we have 77 more games left. There is plenty of time to work on the little things.

[thesheedera]

I know that the ultimate goal is to win a championship, but I think the process requires stages. We need to become a GOOD team first, then we will most likely need to make some changes to become a great team. I hate worrying about the second phase of that development when the first phase is a difficult challenge in and of itself.

I'm no Billy Knight apologist, but I am glad that he's done a good job of avoiding the franchise killing contracts so when we need to make that seond surge to be a contender, we should have the flexibility to do so.

Baby steps...

[Diesel]

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you need 10 good players to win a championship with a couple of great players sprinkled in that mix. we've got

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Just making up stuff huh?

A few years ago, Detroit won the championship with 6 good players, no great players.

NJ went to the championship with Kidd, RJ, and Kmart... TWICE..

Behind Olojuwaun what was there the first time?

Cedric Maxwell? Sam Cassell?

Even the Bulls.. once you get past Jordan, Pippen, and name your PF... there were guys who couldn't make it no where else.

I think JJ could be a guy who we can consider upper echelon and maybe good enough to be Marquee.. and maybe good enough to be Kidd like...

So you don't need 10 good players. You need 1 good team!

That's what we're building.

We may have everything we need... but we have to direct what we can. That means that we have to tell Smoove that he can do more than shoot 3s.

[Diesel]

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hen I'm playing ball, I'm usually one of the taller guys on the team. If I have a size advantage at all, I will be posting up a lot. If the defender is particularly big or particularly scrappy and won't let me get position, I end up moving around and taking some outside shots till they have to respect those. Generally, they will let you take quite a few before they guard you close outside. Also, it draws them away from the basket for their defense and rebounding, although it also means you are away from the basket for your O rebounding.

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I would say that it's good defense to make a player take a lower percentage shot. When I look at Josh Smith, I see drives for 2 and I see the ability to draw a massive amount of fouls. Why is he wasting that being primarily a three point shooter?

If it's because he's afraid to get physical... Then we have a problem!

[gsuteke]

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you need 10 good players to win a championship with a couple of great players sprinkled in that mix. we've got

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Just making up stuff huh?

A few years ago, Detroit won the championship with 6 good players, no great players.

NJ went to the championship with Kidd, RJ, and Kmart... TWICE..

Behind Olojuwaun what was there the first time?

Cedric Maxwell? Sam Cassell?

Even the Bulls.. once you get past Jordan, Pippen, and name your PF... there were guys who couldn't make it no where else.

I think JJ could be a guy who we can consider upper echelon and maybe good enough to be Marquee.. and maybe good enough to be Kidd like...

So you don't need 10 good players. You need 1 good team!

That's what we're building.

We may have everything we need... but we have to direct what we can. That means that we have to tell Smoove that he can do more than shoot 3s.

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you see Diesel our relationship is evolving. in the past I would have started an argument with you, as you sure look to be instigating one with me. telling someone they are full of BS is fightin' words.

if I would have said we've got a couple of good, soon to be great players here and we're ready to make a championship run I would have been roasted for that. i stress team building and what happens?

10 good players create what? a team. you ask for a team and in the same breath you say we only need 2 or 3 players. those are your words, not mine. argue with yourself if you'd like

lastly Diesel if you wait for Josh Smith to become our post threat this team will spin it's wheels for years. i will give you the kid is only 20 years old. i will give you he has plenty of time to develop his game. at the same time you will have to give me the fact J Smoove lacks the nasty streak to mix it up inside. he is a good player that will in time probably become a great player, just not necessarily a post player.

[ecc423]

i love Freije....heck, send salim if anyone..

[DrReality]

I Josh Smith can hit the outside shot AND learn to take it to the basket, he will be unstoppable. It's gonna take some time for him to mature into his body and he'll get better at driving to the hoop.