Josh Smith and his threes

[Lascar78]

This has gone from a minor infection and become a full blown disease. It must be stopped.

When you're 6'9", 240, with arguably the best hops in the league, you shouldn't spend most plays just watching from the perimeter, hoping to catch the ball so you can jack up a three. Yes I know, he made 2 huge ones in OT. He was also 1-8 in regulation. If he attacked the rim instead every time, I feel quite confident that he would have gotten much more than 3 points out of those 8 posessions. I like it when he hits big 3s too, that doesn't make it right.

It seems that people like to remember the makes and forget the misses. For what it's worth, Josh Smith is a career .298 3pt shooter. That's right, under 30%. Last season, when he "discovered" his three point shot, he was .309. This season he's shooting .357 real early in the season.

For comparison's sake, Joe Johnson is shooting .415 from back there this season and is .376 on his career. Ty Lue is shooting .500 this season, .392 career. Salim Stoudamire with all his forced shots and contested shots was .376 last year. There is a reason that these guys are at nearly 40% on their careers and Josh Smith is below 30%: THEY ARE THREE POINT SHOOTERS AND HE IS NOT.

With that being said, he has the body of a monster, and every time he does drive to the basket, he is almost guaranteed to get at least free throws or a very high percentage shot. It's also clear that he is not yet very comfortable finishing in traffic unless he gets a chance to dunk it. These are not skills that you can really get in practice, he needs to find his moves ASAP at game speed and get comfortable finishing contested shots around the rim. He should tailor his game to what his body is made for, not what he wants to do.

Additionally, we know that Johnson-Marvin is overwhelmingly likely to be the starting 2-3 of our future. If Smith wants a starting job, it will be as a 4. You can be a 4 who likes to hit 3s, but those guys don't just stand on the perimeter waiting to jack threes, they are still mostly on the inside or high post and occasionally pop out to hit threes. And those guys shoot it at a much better clip. Take radmanovic (.500 this season / .382 career) or Dirk (.417 this season / .379 career) for instance. You have to develop other skills to open up your perimter game. Either dribbling and slashing, or a post up game. Smoove really has neither at this point and right now is the time to develop it. His handle will likely never be that great, he needs to learn how to get to the rim efficiently.

Now mind you, I don't really blame Smith on all of this. Little guys always want to be tough and go in the paint, big guys always want to be point guards. I blame the coaching staff for not banning him from shooting the 3s. Take the best coaching staff in the league - the spurs. Tony parker liked to shoot 3s. In his first 4 seasons, he averaged 197 3-pointers per season. The problem was that Tony wasn't particularly good at it, .315 overall in his first 4 years (well above smith's .298 mind you). Popovich decided that while he hit them sometimes, it wasn't helping the team or Parker to be taking these shots and completely banned him from shooting any threes last season. Of course there are exceptions if the situation absolutely requires it or the shot clock is running out, but overall, no more threes allowed for TP.

Last season he only took 36 total 3s, and was forced to drive to the hoop or take better shots instead, and worked on perfecting that floater of his. As a result, his overall FG% shot up to .548, and he had his best season ever with 19ppg/5.3apg/2.7rpg/1spg. It clearly benefitted him because he was just not made to be a three point shooter, and allowed him to refine his game where he is needed the most, to penetrate, get the D to collapse, hit floaters and closer shots. And he's a 180 lb PG, not a 6'9" 240 lb manchild.

Why can't our staff do the same with Smith? He's still in his developmental stages and has no handle, no post game, and very little experience taking his man off the dribble and trying to hit the layup with defenders / contact. If he's going to be a true success offensively, he needs to learn how to do at least one of those things, and the time is now. What he does in games now is what he will get better at. Once he gets really comfortable driving and/or posting up, you can give him the green light again and he can mix it up.

But for now, repeat after me, no more threes for Smith Woody! Please!

Rant over.

[dalamchops]

haven't posted in a while, but i was at the game last night, and whenever he drove to the basket, he was pretty much unstoppable

[HawksFan87]

Why did'nt you make a thread about Joe taking too many three's ,since you to called out Smoove. Call out every single player who just jacked up a three last night.

[Popeye]

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Why did'nt you make a thread about Joe taking too many three's ,since you to called out Smoove. Call out every single player who just jacked up a three last night.

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Because Joe is 10x better shooter than Smoove, so i don't have a problem if he is taking threes, but last night he took too many.

Smoove on the other hand just needs to stop and take the damn ball to the rim.

Great post Lascar

[VarsitySlacker]

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Why did'nt you make a thread about Joe taking too many three's ,since you to called out Smoove. Call out every single player who just jacked up a three last night.

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Because if you take away Joe's three point game, he's infinitely less of a threat. Last night, Joe shot .100 less than he normally does from long distance. Josh, on the other hand, shot 3 for 10 - That's standard for him in his career. That's the difference between a bad game for Joe and a bad decision for Smith.

Your impulsive decision to blindly defend Smith from any accusation is approaching the irritation levels of Waltar turning all posts into anti-Shelden. Smith is probably my favorite player, but he has his faults. Shooting too many threes is the most glaring among them. If he learns to drive to the basket, he'll be able to match the young-Shawn Kemp comparisons that we heard early in his career. If he continues to jack threes, he'll be a poor man's Antoine Walker.

Also, Lascar, excellent post. Probably one of the best I've read on HS.

[Lascar78]

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Why did'nt you make a thread about Joe taking too many three's ,since you to called out Smoove. Call out every single player who just jacked up a three last night.

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Because Smith is a career .298 3pt shooter and Joe is a career .376 3pt shooter. Did you read the thread or just see Smith's name and rush to the defense?

Thanks for the good feedback.

[SmooveTheFuture]

I have seen over the past few games Smith take it to the basket with ez and get either a high % shot or free throws. He even had a play last night where he took it coast to coast for a slam dunk. To say he has no handles isnt fair to me his handles are improving a ton from his rookie year. If Smith would have shot better last night this topic wouldnt have been made. I agree he needs to stop with the 3's and play inside more. But on friday night he made 5 3's there was no complaining there cause he shot well and we won. I see improvment in Smiths all around game but 3s are apart of his game right now. He needs to cut down to maybe 2-3 a game and start to get in the post. Im sure coaches will get him on about it. We lost that game last night cause of our BAD D and free throws not because cause Smith shot 30% from the 3 point line.

Also wanna add this taken from another board which is def. true imo.

You have to remember that when Josh was drafted he was seen as a very raw prospect not likely to help the team right away. I don't think anyone really thought he would develop as fast as he has.

If the GM's had known how quickly Smiths game would develop he certainly would have been picked in the top 8.

[Lascar78]

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I have seen over the past few games Smith take it to the basket with ez and get either a high % shot or free throws.

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I agree, he actually does it a couple of times a game now. But not nearly enough. That's what he should be doing every time.

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To say he has no handles isnt fair to me his handles are improving a ton from his rookie year.

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He has improved, but his handle has gone from pathetic to just bad. Yeah he can dribble down the open court, but in the half court he hasn't shown me any crossover or dribble moves of any kind to get by his man. Can you honestly name a single starting SF (or even any non-center starter) in the entire league that has a worse handle than him? I honestly can't, and this is year 3. That's a problem. He is settling for 3s because it's fun and it's easy and he doesn't have to do things that are uncomfortable for him like trying to take his man off the dribble in the half court, or posting his man up. But those are the areas he needs to adress NOW.

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If Smith would have shot better last night this topic wouldnt have been made. I agree he needs to stop with the 3's and play inside more. But on friday night he made 5 3's there was no complaining there cause he shot well and we won.

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Wrong. I have been saying this since last season. Here is what I said after Friday's game: "Awesome game. But I still hate having him shoot threes. Learn how to drive consistently..."

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We lost that game last night cause of our BAD D and free throws not because cause Smith shot 30% from the 3 point line.

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We lost because of a lot of things. If we played better D, we would have won. If we made more free throws, we would have won. If Smith had attacked the rim instead of shooting 3s, we would have won.

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You have to remember that when Josh was drafted he was seen as a very raw prospect not likely to help the team right away. I don't think anyone really thought he would develop as fast as he has. If the GM's had known how quickly Smiths game would develop he certainly would have been picked in the top 8.

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That's probably true, but that has nothing to do with this. We're not talking about whether or not Smith is good, whether he has improved, or whether we like him. We are talking about whether letting Smith shoot many 3s is ok or if he should be forced to take it inside instead.

[AtLaS]

I agree some of them he shouldn't take, and he should definately look to drive more. But most of the time he is WIDE open, I really can't blame him for taking those. Plus it's probably not even him, Woodson probably coaches him to shoot whenever he is wide open, most coaches get pissed off of you pass up an open shot.

[Lascar78]

He is wide open because the other team wants him to shoot 3s.

[DJlaysitup]

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He is wide open because the other team wants him to shoot 3s.

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exactly what I was thinking.

[beenthere]

it's one thing to take a three when your has to have it. Smoov has fallen in love with it. 10 attempts in a game is way too many for him. When he matures mentally, he will become a monster living at the free throw lane. It wouldn't surprise me to see him lead the lead in free throw attempts in a couple of years.

[HawksFan87]

He still took to many threes.

[VarsitySlacker]

In an well-played game (at least in my opinion) JJ takes 7-8 threes, and Smoove takes 2-3. Factoring in the 5 minutes of overtime, I'll give JJ 10 and Smoove 5. Last night, Smoove took 10 (100% more than he should have), and JJ took 14 (about 50% more than he should have). However, you also have to factor that two of JJs were catch and shoot at the end of regulation/OT, where he didn't have the opportunity to drive and create a better shot. By that allowance, that gives JJ 12 3s with a choice, with is about 20% more than he should have.

He probably did take a few too many threes, but Smith was by far a worse offender.

[skankin_richard]

^ plus, JJ is one of the best shooters around. If there's anyone on our team shooting too many threes, it's JJ

[Popeye]

Hell, if Zaza atempted 10 threes he would have hit at least 2-3.

That's bad efficency.

[Iman]

Great post Lascar, and I'm completely with you. Smoove has been shooting way too many 3's since late last year. Woody needs to step-in and make him stop.

However, I cant blame him, they are leaving him open and he knows his tendency to turn it over with his handles. I also like that he's confident enough in his shot that he takes them. It's also interesting that he seems to make them more reliably under pressure. I actually bet he'll improve and it will become a strong part of his game as he takes more. I still want him to back off and work on driving and playing like a 4 but I have very little doubt that he'll eventually shoot 3's much more like Robert Horry than like Antoine Walker.

On handles, there I do wish Smoove more resembled Walker. I dont see Smoove ever really developing good handles. However, here I'll also give him credit, he would be able to handle the ball better if he wasnt always looking so hard for a pass. His passing, sometimes even as he's losing control on the dribble is amazing. At least that's what I'll think because otherwise, he just may have the worst handles of any non-center in the league..lol. For that matter, he and Salim both might have the worst handles in the league for their positions and they might be the worst on our team (Shelden and Zaza have shown me some pretty good handles a few times this year).

[Hoosier]

JS has a good enough jump shot that he should definitely work it into his offensive arsenal, it will make him a much more potent threat in the long run, especially considering his ballhandling ability.

But, that being said I agree that he should be forced to can that 3-point ****. Like Smitty said last year before the season ended, JS should have spent all summer working on his mid-range game, it is apparent that did not happen.

Until this happens he will not develop into the offensive threat that he could be. Sad.

[gsuteke]

I'm sticking to that until he proves otherwise.

click

[a1aa0]

It seems he's better under pressure with his threes as well... Seems like countless times last year he hit big threes near the end of regulation or in OT like the Sonics game... But his 3PT% is a lot less during other times... That is one good thing about Josh, he loves taking the pressure shot and doesn't seem affected by it...

I assumed the coaching staff encouraged him to shoot more 3s towards the end of last year in hopes of opening up drives to the rim for him... But it appears teams are sagging off of him knowing it's the higher percentage play and the strategy may have backfired...