What has the Joe Johnson trade netted us?

[gsuteke]

Billy would still be without his Center with or without Belkin calling the shots. Billy Knight's endless pursuit for a Center and the Belkin situation are mutually exclusive in my mind.

thanks for bringing up Belkin though. As of right now the Hawks won't be able to sign any free agents to a contract longer than 4 (?) years this offseason. great

[Sothron]

Exodus, how old are you? Seriously? Did you watch those 90's Hawks teams as anything more than a six year old? Not trying to sound insulting just curious. Every year Deke was with us Lenny made a huge effort every game to establish Deke in the low post. Every.single.game. we would keep tossing it into him and he'd bounce it a few times before he made a move. I never said he was a great scorer, in fact he was too deficeint in that area of his game. But we still made that effort. We did the same when Laettner was here but he at least could score some.There is no way JJ would have the same role he has on his team in 2006 as he would have had in 1996 or during that era of the team.

[exodus]

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Every year Deke was with us Lenny made a huge effort every game to establish Deke in the low post. Every.single.game. we would keep tossing it into him and he'd bounce it a few times before he made a move. I never said he was a great scorer,

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What you said is that JJ would have been the 4th option BEHIND DEKE, which is nuts. The most he ever averaged in his career was 13 ppg.Just because they passed it to him a few times doesn't mean he was a go to scorer. All he had was a passable jump hook and mid-range shot. If they had another legit scorer on that team Deke's touches would have gone down because he wasn't a scorer. Neither was Augmon. I was in my 20s watching that team struggling to score because Augmon had no shot, Deke had a limited post game and Mookie was a chucker. Their lack of scoring killed them in the playoffs every year and yet your dumb ass is trying to compare them with the Suns. Get a clue.

[Sothron]

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Every year Deke was with us Lenny made a huge effort every game to establish Deke in the low post. Every.single.game. we would keep tossing it into him and he'd bounce it a few times before he made a move. I never said he was a great scorer,

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What you said is that JJ would have been the 4th option BEHIND DEKE, which is nuts. The most he ever averaged in his career was 13 ppg.Just because they passed it to him a few times doesn't mean he was a go to scorer. All he had was a passable jump hook and mid-range shot. If they had another legit scorer on that team Deke's touches would have gone down because he wasn't a scorer. Neither was Augmon. I was in my 20s watching that team struggling to score because Augmon had no shot, Deke had a limited post game and Mookie was a chucker. Their lack of scoring killed them in the playoffs every year and yet your dumb ass is trying to compare them with the Suns. Get a clue.

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We still would have went to Deke as much as we did because every year Lenny would talk about "this is the year Dikemebe becomes a scorer" and we gave him the ball every single possession to try and do it. You are looking at the ppg and that means nothing. The entire focus of those teams was in getting Deke the ball and having some guys shoot off of it and JJ would have been in the same boat. Unless Lenny had had a complete change of thought in offensive scheme JJ would have been wasted while we waited (and waited) for Deke to finally "get it" enough to be a reliable scorer. But we all know that part never came true. It wasn't until Laettner came here that some of the low post focus changed off of Deke.

[exodus]

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We still would have went to Deke as much as we did because every year Lenny would talk about "this is the year Dikemebe becomes a scorer" and we gave him the ball every single possession to try and do it. You are looking at the ppg and that means nothing.

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Come on i know you have more sense than this.Why did he go to Deke? What else could he do? Smith was the only good scorer on the roster. He couldn't go to Augmon because he couldn't shoot. Mookie was taking too many shots already. Long was a decent scorer but that's all.

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It wasn't until Laettner came here that some of the low post focus changed off of Deke.

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And why is that? Because Laettner could score. they brought in a scorer so they didn't have to force scoring out of Deke. That was exactly what would have happened if they had JJ.

[frosgrim]

If JJ was on those 90s teams with Deke, Smith, and Mookie we would have won at least one championship. The lack of a decent small forward killed us in the playoffs. Ty Corben (sp?) was simply a terrible scorer. We needed one more guy, especially someone who could create. Smith wasn't that good at creating his own shot, Mookie was in love with the 3 pointer, and Deke was Deke. Laettner was our best chance, but he started sulking every freakin' trip down the court. He could have been THE guy on the team but he just argued with the refs (that drove me NUTS). Then once Laet left we were left with nothing in the post. As far as who was/is better, I go with JJ over Smitty. Smith was a very good player, but he just didn't have the ability to drive like JJ does. Smith was a good if not excellent TEAM defensive player, but having Deke in the paint made that whole team better defensively. Smitty could definitely shoot and his ball handling skills were better than JJs. But JJ is a better passer. Smith had a better post game, JJ has a better mid-range shot. Its close in many ways, but I will take JJ at 25 over Smith while he was with the Hawks.

[exodus]

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If JJ was on those 90s teams with Deke, Smith, and Mookie we would have won at least one championship.

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I agree. They were very good defensively but they really needed another scorer to take the pressure off Smith.Just imagine the current team with Mookie and Deke (in their primes of course). Sigh.

[Sothron]

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If JJ was on those 90s teams with Deke, Smith, and Mookie we would have won at least one championship. The lack of a decent small forward killed us in the playoffs. Ty Corben (sp?) was simply a terrible scorer. We needed one more guy, especially someone who could create. Smith wasn't that good at creating his own shot, Mookie was in love with the 3 pointer, and Deke was Deke. Laettner was our best chance, but he started sulking every freakin' trip down the court. He could have been THE guy on the team but he just argued with the refs (that drove me NUTS). Then once Laet left we were left with nothing in the post. As far as who was/is better, I go with JJ over Smitty. Smith was a very good player, but he just didn't have the ability to drive like JJ does. Smith was a good if not excellent TEAM defensive player, but having Deke in the paint made that whole team better defensively. Smitty could definitely shoot and his ball handling skills were better than JJs. But JJ is a better passer. Smith had a better post game, JJ has a better mid-range shot. Its close in many ways, but I will take JJ at 25 over Smith while he was with the Hawks.

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You also have to factor in the fact Smitty was the leader on that team. He didn't do a Ray Lewis dance to do it but he was the leader of that team. Joe Johnson doesn't have any kind of leadership skills. Just like SAR. Good guys, good players, just not any kind of leader and way too quiet to ever be one. Its a failing in their playing ability.

[frosgrim]

That brings up an interesting question. Who would you rather have on the current team, Mookie or Deke? I think I would go with Deke as he would solidify the whole team. Mookie certainly could help with the perimeter, but Lue can do much of the same (I have more or less given up on the idea of Speedy being a consistent contributer on the team).

[exodus]

So what made Smitty a leader?If JJ was more of a "leader" would that make Zaza/Lo anything other than garbage cans? Would that make Marvin start playing like the number 2 pick? Would that make the point guards less susceptible to injuries. I guess KG isn't a leader because the only year he got past the first round was when Cassell was there. I guess Duncan isn't a leader either since he is too quiet.

[exodus]

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Who would you rather have on the current team, Mookie or Deke?

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Definitely Deke. He is my favorite Hawks since i started following the team in '93.

[AHF]

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Who would you rather have on the current team, Mookie or Deke?

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Definitely Deke. He is my favorite Hawks since i started following the team in '93.

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Obviously, Deke. He was better then and would fill a crying need on this team.

[drzachary]

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Who would you rather have on the current team, Mookie or Deke?

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Definitely Deke. He is my favorite Hawks since i started following the team in '93.

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Obviously, Deke. He was better then and would fill a crying need on this team.

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Deke fans: are you all familiar with 'Who wants to sex Mutombo?"It's the best thing ever.

[AHF]

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Who would you rather have on the current team, Mookie or Deke?

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Definitely Deke. He is my favorite Hawks since i started following the team in '93.

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Obviously, Deke. He was better then and would fill a crying need on this team.

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Deke fans: are you all familiar with 'Who wants to sex Mutombo?"It's the best thing ever.

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A link is a must after referencing "Who wants to sex Mutombo?"

[exodus]

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Who would you rather have on the current team, Mookie or Deke?

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Definitely Deke. He is my favorite Hawks since i started following the team in '93.

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Obviously, Deke. He was better then and would fill a crying need on this team.

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Deke fans: are you all familiar with 'Who wants to sex Mutombo?"It's the best thing ever.

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A link is a must after referencing "Who wants to sex Mutombo?"

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Now this is what i call hijacking a thread.

[Sothron]

You know what is really sad? Deke is still better than anything we have in the middle on our team now and Deke is 40 years old.

[jerrywest]

Sothron,You have confused Deke with Patrick Ewing. You have also confused Augman with Scotti Pippen. You have confused Smitty with Ricki Pierce. You have confused JJ with Bobby Sura. You have confused Mookie with Gary Payton. You have confused 90s Hawks offense with 06 Suns offense.

[AHF]

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Who would you rather have on the current team, Mookie or Deke?

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Definitely Deke. He is my favorite Hawks since i started following the team in '93.

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Obviously, Deke. He was better then and would fill a crying need on this team.

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Deke fans: are you all familiar with 'Who wants to sex Mutombo?"It's the best thing ever.

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A link is a must after referencing "Who wants to sex Mutombo?"

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Now this is what i call hijacking a thread.

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Wasn't it hijacked a long time ago with the Smitty v. JJ debate? The thread topic is whether the Hawks benefit in the aggregate from trading Diaw and two firsts for JJ. That has little to do with whether Smitty or JJ is the better player.

[thesheedera]

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Honestly, did Marvin put up better #'s than Jawad. When you watched the games, did Marvin ever look better than Jawad? The answer is no. Jawad played against everybody's first team and Marvin came in and made good tip ins and hit wide open shots against tired teams.

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Your spin cycle's running out of control. Did he ever look better than Jawad???? Hell yes he did - all season long!This is revisionist history bullshit if I've ever seen it. I would go back through the entire season as I did very long ago and explain again what Marvin did and what he meant to the 2005 Championship Team, but it would be a waste of time on you. You would simply ignore it and move onto your next go-to bullshit point about how bad Marvin is.For the rest of you who actually listen to reason and don't have agendas:Marvin didn't set the world on fire like Carmelo or Durant or Tyler Hansbrough as a Freshman, but his freshman season at UNC was anything BUT overshadowed by upper classmen. He is credited as being THE spark that took the team from being an assemblage of self-interested talents to being a CHampionship TEAM. The example he set, the fire he practiced and played with and the moments he stepped up throughout his freshman year at UNC are widely considered among Tarheel faithful as extremely important and fondly revered parts of UNC hoops history. Don't believe the hype - DeisNutz' hype, that is. Marvin was an animal.

[AtLaS]

I disagree, he definitely didn't look better than Jawad.He made open jumpers, had a nice looking shot and was athletic (although not THAT athletic). He was a freshman, which gave him tons of undeserved hype.. he was nor is near as good as he was thought to be.Him becoming a legit star is a longshot at best at this point.