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What has the Joe Johnson trade netted us?

gsuteke

By gsuteke
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AHF Grand Master

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i agree....13-26...your right, basically not a whole lot....

...yet. Posted Image

so far this is the closest anyone has come to answering the question.

I've seen plenty of name calling and a little excuse making.

Here is what we have netted:

(1) A player to build around. JJ is young, wants to be a Hawk and excels. He is someone the team can absolutely have pride in and look forward to watching for years to come. He brings it every night. Before JJ we had veterans whose futures were elsewhere. Now we have not just a building block, but a cornerstone for this team.

(2) As for on the court record, he has not gotten this team to turn the corner but has improved the record and significantly improved the level of competitiveness of this team.
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hawkman Grand Master

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Why is everyone getting so defensive about this question? Is there some history here with gsuteke that I may not be aware of? Anyway, here's my answer. I think that we overpaid for JJ. I honestly think that we should have AT LEAST gotten more protection on the lottery picks. If you asked this question last season, I would have to say that I was a little disappointed with JJ's production. I just thought $70 million AND draft picks was a little too much for 20 points and 6 assists per game AS THE NUMBER ONE OPTION ON A VERY BAD TEAM. It could be the fact that a guy like Ricky Davis could've done that for us for a lot less money. Then again, I'm frugal(cheap). But this season, I have to admit that he is a pleasant surprise. He still hasn't been much of a leader, but he has become a big-time player in this league. He does his job and he's a solid citizen as well. He's been in kind of a slump lately due to injuries and extended minutes, but he has been playing at a very high level. I believe that with the addition of one other legit scoring threat, he will become an even better player and the Hawks will become a better team for it. The bottom line is that we gained a player that we can actually build around, and that's something that I thought BK would never be able to accomplish.

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DJlaysitup Newbie

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...I don't think you can look at our record and say "the Joe Johnson trade wrought this."
Agreed, what it says to me is just how deep a hole BK was allowed to dig the Hawks into with his "dismantling"...to the point that adding a "team USA" calibre player still doesn't put us over the hump to compete might-in/night-out or for a playoff spot.I think the real mistakes that have been made have more to to with bad judgement on a pick or two and trying to get by with cheap bigs.JS is really our only impact inside guy and he is better suited to playing help D from the 3 spot. Marvin needs more muscle and also more suited to the 3.C/PF-wise: We have two of the softest centers in the league, a 6'9" rookie PF with his shoulder banged up, a Uraguayan in a suit (nothing racial meant there), a very raw rookie without the muscle to really get in there and bang, and the occasional NBDLer. There is no way this team can compete for a playoff stop with those players in the paint.Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see it get worse. I don't think Lo can last the whole season. That's not to hex him or anything - but the guy ain't getting any younger and doesn't look like he came into the season in top shape anyway.
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drzachary Newbie

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...I don't think you can look at our record and say "the Joe Johnson trade wrought this."
Agreed, what it says to me is just how deep a hole BK was allowed to dig the Hawks into with his "dismantling"...to the point that adding a "team USA" calibre player still doesn't put us over the hump to compete might-in/night-out or for a playoff spot.I think the real mistakes that have been made have more to to with bad judgement on a pick or two and trying to get by with cheap bigs.JS is really our only impact inside guy and he is better suited to playing help D from the 3 spot. Marvin needs more muscle and also more suited to the 3.C/PF-wise: We have two of the softest centers in the league, a 6'9" rookie PF with his shoulder banged up, a Uraguayan in a suit (nothing racial meant there), a very raw rookie without the muscle to really get in there and bang, and the occasional NBDLer. There is no way this team can compete for a playoff stop with those players in the paint.Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see it get worse. I don't think Lo can last the whole season. That's not to hex him or anything - but the guy ain't getting any younger and doesn't look like he came into the season in top shape anyway.
I agree with all of this.. but I still think the JJ trade was a good one.
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DJlaysitup Newbie

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[C/PF-wise: We have two of the softest centers in the league,...
I should amend this to be fair to Zaza. He isn't soft. He picked up 12 rebounds last night. He simply isn't athletic enough to get his shot inside very much and doesn't have enough of a vertical to block shots inside and flops a lot. But physically he's not soft like Lo looks. He should just be playing backup center minutes at most (IMO).
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CBAreject Newbie

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It's up to the management to build around that player. I'm not one of the "if only Paul" folks, but honestly if we'd taken Paul or Deron, we wouldn't be having this conversation.We'd have 1-4 of let's sayDeronJJChildressSmooveWe would be a demonstrably better team and nobody would be asking whether JJ was a good acquisition.We need two things to happen: 1) Somehow acquire a star 4 or 52) Get an avg. PGWe are set at the 2 and 3, and if we get a strong 5, Smoove is fine at the 4. Again, it's up to management to make these acquisitions. Hasn't happened yet.

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Sothron Grand Master

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our best player since Dominique
Dikembe, Steve Smith and Mookie would disagree with you. And be right.
Why is that? I think he is our best player since Nique.
Dikembe is, or should be, a HOF player. Smitty was better than Johnson and Mookie was a great point guard for years on this team. The only person I can say an argument could be made he's better than is possibly Mookie. He's not as good as Deke or Smitty though. I like Joe Cool, don't get me wrong, but let's don't put the guy on a pedestal.
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Lascar78 Newbie

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Steve Smith? Are you nuts?Steve Smith averaged 14 and 3 on his career, he was a shooter, and only averaged 20 pts 3 times, with a career highs of 20.5ppg and 4.2apg respectively. He was known as a 3 pt shooter and averaged .358 on his career. Joe averaged 20/6.5 last year, and on his way to averaging 25/4 this year. He has a career 3pt percentage .376. So how was he better again? I don't see how he's better in any way except for longevity. I was a smitty fan but I take Joe any day. Mookie's not close either. I guess you could argue Deke, I hated his game, but he was a solid defensive presence. I think Joe is better also. I maintain that Joe is our best player since Nique.Edit: Damn you ex for beating me to the punch

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Sothron Grand Master

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Steve Smith? Are you nuts?Steve Smith averaged 14 and 3 on his career, he was a shooter, and only averaged 20 pts 3 times, with a career highs of 20.5ppg and 4.2apg respectively. He was known as a 3 pt shooter and averaged .358 on his career. Joe averaged 20/6.5 last year, and on his way to averaging 25/4 this year. He has a career 3pt percentage .376. So how was he better again? I don't see how he's better in any way except for longevity. I was a smitty fan but I take Joe any day. Mookie's not close either. I guess you could argue Deke, I hated his game, but he was a solid defensive presence. I think Joe is better also. I maintain that Joe is our best player since Nique.Edit: Damn you ex for beating me to the punch
Smitty was about eighteen times better on defense than Johnson and had better handles. Our entire offense is trying to get Johnson to shoot the ball this year versus Lenny's scheme of team offense (what a wacky concept eh Woody?) that didn't need or want Smitty to take as many shots.I would take a healthy Smitty in his prime over similiar Johnson any day of the week. Twice on Sunday.
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exodus Newbie

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that didn't need or want Smitty to take as many shots.
I guess that would explain why Smitty shot a worse percentage than JJ. LOLIn fact Smith's best shooting percentage as a Hawk was worse than JJ shot last year. JJ is the focus of the opposing defense much more than Smitty ever was yet still shoots much better. And Smith's defense was always his big weakness because he was so slow.
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TheNorthCydeRises Grand Master

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i agree....13-26...your right, basically not a whole lot....

...yet. Posted Image

so far this is the closest anyone has come to answering the question.

I've seen plenty of name calling and a little excuse making.

To be honest teke, without JJ, we may very well be a 4 - 33 team, instead of a 13 - 26 team. And if our team were somewhat healthy and not missing weeks and months at a time, this would still be a .500 ballclub at the very least.

It's easy to criticize JJ. Memphis fans and media are doing the same with Pau Gasol. And you see how horrible the Griz were without him in the lineup. They weren't even competitive on most nights.

Most star players that don't have any help . . or if their help is hurt . . won't be able to get the job done by themselves.

But to answer your question.

- we got rid of a nice young player and maybe a few draft picks that would've taken a few years to develop, for a top 20 all-star caliber player in the league who I think hasn't even reached his prime yet.

- a guy that this franchise can depend on for at least the next 3 years. I say that because if we don't turn this thing around, I don't see JJ staying here when his contract is up.

- the best player this franchise has had since Dominique Wilkins

- one of the most versatile big guards/small forwards in the league.

- a high percentage perimeter shooter. That's almost an endangered species in today's NBA. When you look at the guards who score 15 points or more, JJ ranks #5 in FG%.

LOL @ what has he given us. The question you should be asking is . . what is everybody else giving us?
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gsuteke Rookie

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i agree....13-26...your right, basically not a whole lot....

...yet. Posted Image

so far this is the closest anyone has come to answering the question.

I've seen plenty of name calling and a little excuse making.

To be honest teke, without JJ, we may very well be a 4 - 33 team, instead of a 13 - 26 team. And if our team were somewhat healthy and not missing weeks and months at a time, this would still be a .500 ballclub at the very least.

It's easy to criticize JJ. Memphis fans and media are doing the same with Pau Gasol. And you see how horrible the Griz were without him in the lineup. They weren't even competitive on most nights.

Most star players that don't have any help . . or if their help is hurt . . won't be able to get the job done by themselves.

But to answer your question.

- we got rid of a nice young player and maybe a few draft picks that would've taken a few years to develop, for a top 20 all-star caliber player in the league who I think hasn't even reached his prime yet.

- a guy that this franchise can depend on for at least the next 3 years. I say that because if we don't turn this thing around, I don't see JJ staying here when his contract is up.

- the best player this franchise has had since Dominique Wilkins

- one of the most versatile big guards/small forwards in the league.

- a high percentage perimeter shooter. That's almost an endangered species in today's NBA. When you look at the guards who score 15 points or more, JJ ranks #5 in FG%.

LOL @ what has he given us. The question you should be asking is . . what is everybody else giving us?

hang on grasshopper. give the thread some time to play itself out.
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