The PG Debate

[MikeJ]

So it seems that we've all but accepted that we should take either Conley or Law. I haven't seen musch of these two but from what I've read and what you guys have told me they sound like two different but prototypical PG's. I guess it comes down to what type of PG you like.

You could have a flashy, lightnigh quick penetrate and dish PG in Conley. Or the more steady, fundamental, get the job done team oriented PG in Law.

We've had this debate on this board in the past with choosing between the flashy Paul and the fundamental Deron (obviously BK wasn't reading) of which you'd have to be happy with either (I always wanted Deron). A few drafts prior we were debating over the fundamental Andre Miller, flashy Baron and JT (I wanted Miller).

So what type of PG do we want? For the record I'd prefer Law even though I know we have a run and gun team of athletes. Do you really think a Miller or Deron wouldn't succeed with our squad (any squad)? I prefer a thinking PG over an athlete. When the games on the line and tough decisions need to be made, I want a smart PG rather than an athlete who might fall in love with their own athletic ability and try to do too much.

So I want Law but I want to hear more from you guys about Conley because Draftnet has nothing on him.

I've gathered that the knocks on him are that shooting is not a strength and he obviously had a talented College squad (not his fault). I want to know about his mental toughness, under pressure, his team game.

Look forward to hearing from you guys.

[bootsybug]

maybe i'm the only one who doesn't think we should necessarily take a point guard instead of a center. i think we need a center who can actually play defense way more than we need a point guard - that is assuming that thabeet or maybe noah or somebody fell. we've already spent a ton on guards and haven't spent anything on big men.

with that said, of the point guards, i'd rather take conley. it won't matter though with woodsen coaching.

[ncthompson11]

Anyone have any interest in chris duhon? I dont think he will ever play much in chicago and could easily be a starter in this league.

[AtLaS]

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i think we need a center who can actually play defense way more than we need a point guard

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With the Indy pick? No way, no valuble big will be available that late in the draft. It's already looking as if Thabeet will be a late 1st, he's a complete stiff that MIGHT be ready in 3-4 years. Noah has no offense, is a toothpick, and will get manhandled in the NBA on defense.. you saw what Oden did to him.

Oden is the only big in the draft that will upgrade our center position.

What are all these PG's you speak of? Lue? Speedy? AJ? Please, we have passed on every good PG opportunity we've had.

[Guest Walter]

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Oden is the only big in the draft that will upgrade our center position.

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I disagree.

Thabeet could be as good or better than deke. Remember that Deke, who was MUCH older then (being that he's a 15 year vet and is 40 years old...do the math), only averaged 9.9 PPG and 8.6 RPG for his CAREER at Georgetown. His 15/12/4.7 as a senior were great but that is with more collegiate basketball than Thabeet has played organied basketball his entire career.

Thabeet is most certainly 3 years from any real impact on a good team, but for us he'd still be a defensive post presence upgrade. Regardless, he's the usual high risk, high reward post player. We can't get a "sure thing, great" post player at 11. I believe we are a franchise that cannot afford to NOT take the risk. I wouldn't "take the risk" if Conley's available, but Law? I would. We can't be safe because that ensures we will be sorry.

W

[bootsybug]

all i'm saying is that there is more room and the same need for a big man than a guard. it's not like if we get a great point guard then that'll stop the zaza ole' defense. we need both interior defense and a point guard, and i would take the better player at 1 or 5 who was available.

[AtLaS]

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Remember that Deke, who was MUCH older then (being that he's a 15 year vet and is 40 years old...do the math), only averaged 9.9 PPG and 8.6 RPG for his CAREER at Georgetown. His 15/12/4.7 as a senior were great but that is with more collegiate basketball than Thabeet has played organied basketball his entire career.

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That's a good point about Mutombo's numbers, and being similar type prospects it helps Thabeet's case. But I just don't know about all these prospects that haven't played much basketball in their lives, it usually results in a low basketball IQ. Another thing, Thabeet is only a 50% FT shooter which doesn't bode well.

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Thabeet is most certainly 3 years from any real impact on a good team, but for us he'd still be a defensive post presence upgrade. Regardless, he's the usual high risk, high reward post player. We can't get a "sure thing, great" post player at 11. I believe we are a franchise that cannot afford to NOT take the risk. I wouldn't "take the risk" if Conley's available, but Law? I would. We can't be safe because that ensures we will be sorry.

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I'd actually rather have Law than Conley, although I'd take both over Thabeet. Law can actually shoot, is experienced, and didn't have near the all around talent on his team that Conley did, even WITHOUT Oden.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to take a chance on Thabeet, but not at the expense of Law or Conley. We don't have 3 years to wait on something that MIGHT be. We need to put some kind of product on the floor while we still have Smith/JJ, because adding Thabeet won't give us a better chance at winning next year. After next year, Smith becomes an RFA and JJ only has 2 years left.

[AtLaS]

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it's not like if we get a great point guard then that'll stop the zaza ole' defense.

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The Hawks were the WORST offensive team in the league last year. That should explain how vital a good PG would be. Plus Conley is a very good defender, and would stop a lot of penetration, Law is also an above average defender, and certainly an upgrade over anything we have. Speedy is a good defender but you can't count on him.

[Iman]

I'm with Bootys and Walter on this one. A good point would help this team alot. It also would be good to have a young point to groom for the future. But we need a good center much more than a point. Also, unless we trade a couple of our points, neither Condley or Law will start for us next year.

To me the factor everyone seems to be forgetting is that BK is now in save his butt mode. Even last year he tried to draft to improve the team quickly and I see him doing the same this year. If we get the 3rd pick, I see BK taking Horford. At 11 he'll take a big if any are available. Not Thabeet though, Hawes or Noah is who he's hoping will slide to us.

[AtLaS]

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If we get the 3rd pick, I see BK taking Horford.

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You say neither Conley or Law will start for us next year (which I disagree with), so what exactly is Horford going to do?? Are you saying he'll take Smith's spot? Or BK's beloved Marvin's? By BK taking Horford, he will again be eating another mistake (Shelden).

[atlien]

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I prefer a thinking PG over an athlete. When the games on the line and tough decisions need to be made, I want a smart PG rather than an athlete who might fall in love with their own athletic ability and try to do too much.

So I want Law but I want to hear more from you guys about Conley because Draftnet has nothing on him.

I've gathered that the knocks on him are that shooting is not a strength and he obviously had a talented College squad (not his fault). I want to know about his mental toughness, under pressure, his team game.

Look forward to hearing from you guys.

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From what I've read, he's a VERY cerebral pg.

Examples:

"Conley is known for his ability to play under control just as much as his athleticism ... Conley does a marvelous job of controlling tempo and playing under control, but still manages to find the right moments to bury the needle on his way to the basket."

"Conley is not a showboat, wants to make the other guys better and plays under control right now. He will come along quicker than either guy [the hawks] have bemoaned not getting two drafts ago and make Marvin suddenly appear like the missing link ... the guy jumps through the roof with the pedigree of a father that was an Olympian in the triple jump who could dunk from the foul line two handed in high school and has yet to throw down a dunk. I love to see understatement and reserve at such an important position. He is a steal if left at 11. Doubt he will be."

[thesheedera]

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You could have a flashy, lightnigh quick penetrate and dish PG in Conley. Or the more steady, fundamental, get the job done team oriented PG in Law.

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I'm not sure these are accurate characterizations of their games.

Conley is "steady, fundamental and get the job done team oriented", but he's smaller, an inconsistent jumpshooter and not as explosive as a scorer. He's less experineced but has more big game experience.

Law appears to be less of the "distributor", but much more of the lead guard scorer type.

Put the two together and you have the perfect PG.

I won't be disappointed with either, but I slightly prefer Conley. Some guys are born to be PGs with instinct you can't ever learn. I haven't seen enough of Law to know if he has that, but Conley looks to me like he certainly does have it.

You don't have to have that quality to lead a team as a PG. For example, Chris Paul, Jason Kidd and Tony Parker are more instinctual PGs than Chauncey Billups, but Chauncey's still awesome because he can be relied on so much as a scorer.

I prefer the first group, but I'd be happy with Chauncey.

[DJlaysitup]

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...To me the factor everyone seems to be forgetting is that BK is now in save his butt mode. Even last year he tried to draft to improve the team quickly and I see him doing the same this year. If we get the 3rd pick, I see BK taking Horford. At 11 he'll take a big if any are available. Not Thabeet though, Hawes or Noah is who he's hoping will slide to us.

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I think you've hit it pretty much on the button there Iman. Not sure if you have the names right, but the logic sounds true. BK will almost surely go with a big.

It's much easier to say things like "you can never have enough size in this league" than it is to say "boy we really screwed the pooch with the Speedy/AJ signings".

[TheDude]

I would go for Conley in that his type of game may bring more fans in the seats as well which helps home court advantage.

as far as center vs point guard, the center we need is one who can play defense. i say get the best player at that point. we can get a better point than center at 11.

[Lascar78]

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I think you've hit it pretty much on the button there Iman. Not sure if you have the names right, but the logic sounds true. BK will almost surely go with a big.

It's much easier to say things like "you can never have enough size in this league" than it is to say "boy we really screwed the pooch with the Speedy/AJ signings".

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He may or may not go big (I doubt it), but I think there is a basic misunderstanding of BK's personality here. I think if there's one thing that sets him apart, it's that he genuinely, honestly doesn't give a damn what anyone thinks of his moves, which is both good and bad. He certainly doesn't make moves because they're easier to explain.

[bfwolf]

Agree completely. MikeJ's characterizations of Conley and Law are inaccurate and intended to lead the reader to believe Law is the right choice. Whether Conley or Law will be the better NBA player is debatable, but the fact that Conley is more of a "pure" PG and Law is more of a "scoring" PG is not.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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i think we need a center who can actually play defense way more than we need a point guard

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With the Indy pick? No way, no valuble big will be available that late in the draft. It's already looking as if Thabeet will be a late 1st, he's a complete stiff that MIGHT be ready in 3-4 years. Noah has no offense, is a toothpick, and will get manhandled in the NBA on defense.. you saw what Oden did to him.

Oden is the only big in the draft that will upgrade our center position.

What are all these PG's you speak of? Lue? Speedy? AJ? Please, we have passed on every good PG opportunity we've had.

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Chris Bosh is a toothpick and he's a solid big man and so is KG.

You don't need to be muscles Mcgee in the NBA especially in the future.

First of all, Oden man handled a lot of people.

Second of all, did he really handle Noah considering A)He wasn't Noah's assignment and B)Noah hardly played because he was in foul trouble?

That toothpick can play some D which is why he holds the tourney record and championship game record for blocked shots. Oh and he set that championship game record in the first half.

[AtLaS]

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Chris Bosh is a toothpick and he's a solid big man and so is KG.

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Please don't compare Noah to Bosh and KG, as Noah's offensive skill isn't 1/20th of those 2.. KG was a better offensive player than Noah in High School.

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First of all, Oden man handled a lot of people.

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Since he did, as you say, then how come he had his best game of the tourney against Noah and had him in foul trouble the whole game?

[Guest Walter]

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maybe i'm the only one who doesn't think we should necessarily take a point guard instead of a center. i think we need a center who can actually play defense way more than we need a point guard - that is assuming that thabeet or maybe noah or somebody fell. we've already spent a ton on guards and haven't spent anything on big men.

with that said, of the point guards, i'd rather take conley. it won't matter though with woodsen coaching.

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I would work them all out and weigh everything between the available C and Pgs. I like Conley. I like Thabeet. I like Noah at 11. Hibbert? We'll see. I want him trying out against a reasonably polished center like Hawes and a physical superior like Thabeet. Man, that would be a nice workout to sit in on. Jaywalker?...I like Crittenton. I'll let Law sway me, but he's only OK as of right now for me.

Yes, I like alot of players as of now. Close. Alot warm my heart. I'm inclined to draft for upside given our talent and capitol deficiencies.

W

[Buzzard]

Normally, I would not have a problem with taking a big over a pg if the workouts prove this out. But BK is the one who is judging the talent and my confidence in his abilty to do this is all shot to hell. Chances are BK is going to take the taller player over the shorter player just because he likes taller players.

I wish they would hire a scouting company and just let them make our picks for us. That is what I wish. Then maybe we would really get the best player available...