What's MW worth if traded for a pick in this draft

[Swatguy]

I pick 9-11.

OT: Brewer may be the third best player in the draft. Marvin is weak in the post, weak with the dribble and his basketball IQ is immeasurable. Brewer is better, clearly. (we have been had).

[Dejay]

You took the words right from my mouth. Well done...

[BusBoyIsBack]

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What does it matter who was better in what year? What matters is now.

Brewer is a MUCH better ballhandler, is more athletic, and a better shooter. He's also 10x the defender that Marvin is.

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Much better ball handler?

Lol are you talking about the same Corey Brewer who constantly made me cringe when he dribbled out of control on fast breaks?

No way is he a "MUCH better ballhandler". That's one of his weakest points.

More athletic? I don't know about that either. Marvin Williams had tremendous upside because of his great athletic ability. Brewer does show nice body control at times but he isn't exactly graceful. Better defender? I'll certainly give you that.

Marvin Williams came into the league with James Worthy upside.

No way would he have been taken behind Brewer.

[AtLaS]

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We can lower the bet and come up with a way that measures the productivity of the player. The botton line is that you don't have the conviction on your own opinion. Some things I will go to the mat on and others I'm not so sure. When I'm sure I would put my money where my mouth is and not make excuses.

Marvin gets slammed all the time in the same inane way by the same people. Then, you ask them to put up on their position and they run like little wusses. Walter will likely run also. It's one thing to brainlessly rip away like he always does and another thing if their are consequences to his crap opinion.

I'll make the bet this...ANYBODY outside of Durant and Oden you can have. I'll take Marvin next year. You want Brewer. You got him. Horford? He's yours. The Chinese dude. You can have him too.

Let's see if one mindless Marvin basher will take a $500 bet. If you think Marvin is that far beneath one of these 3-6 type picks then let's get it on.

BTW, if one of these cats isn't better right away than sorry Marvin, then why in the hell would we trade Marvin for one of them now? You guys would all be crying when Marvin goes off. Who wants to take my bet? Walter???

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You still don't get it. You insist on betting on the basis that Marvin will score more ppg. That's not my point at ALL. I'm simply saying that Marvin is a HORRIBLE scorer, and he's one of the most inefficient SFs in the league, which is what truly matters. To put it another way, would you rather have Jermaine O'Neal (offensively) or Tim Duncan (offensively). They average the same ppg, but Jermaine is a horribly inefficient scorer. Do you understand that? You haven't responded to any of the FACTS that I have provided, all you have done is respond by asking me to put up money and saying Marvin will score more ppg. That's my point EXACTLY, scoring more ppg doesn't benefit the team ONE BIT if you are as inefficient as Marvin is.

The only thing I was trying to say is that Marvin would not be a top 3 pick (not top 5 IMO) in this draft.

BTW where have I EVER said I wanted to trade Marvin? EVER?

[AtLaS]

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Much better ball handler?

Lol are you talking about the same Corey Brewer who constantly made me cringe when he dribbled out of control on fast breaks?

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If you cringe when Brewer dribbles, I don't even want to know what you do when Marvin puts the ball on the floor.

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More athletic? I don't know about that either. Marvin Williams had tremendous upside because of his great athletic ability.

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Marvin is certainly athletic, but his athleticism was overrated going into the draft. I guess it's debatable.

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Marvin Williams came into the league with James Worthy upside.

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The hype machine is what created that, Marvin never had that kind of upside. Do you honestly believe that?

[Dukegotgame]

lol some of you people are crazy

[Popeye]

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What does it matter who was better in what year? What matters is now.

Brewer is a MUCH better ballhandler.

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Much better??

Than why does he average 2.5 turnovers per game in college playing only 28mgp??

Marvin averages less than 2 turnovers a game in Nba playing 34 mpg.

[Buzzard]

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Than why does he average 2.5 turnovers per game in college playing only 28mgp??

Marvin averages less than 2 turnovers a game in Nba playing 34 mpg.

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This poll was created so the bashers could bash. MWill's summer league performance and his last months stats for this season speak for themselves. Not to mention his 13 pts a game for the season.

The bashers forget that after he came back from his injury he raised his FG% from 420 to 444. It took a while; but once he started hitting his rythym and got back in game shape; Marvin played at a much higher level. The bashers speak as if their opinion is the same as most NBA GM's. This is a classic blooper of a poll.

I picked 3 to 5, he is a can't miss prospect(starter)with tons of upside to boot.

[TexasPete]

Exactly Buzzard. Atlas bashes but his 10cent checking account won't let him back up his 1K mouth. I will bet Atlas on any performance metric about any player in the draft not named Oden or Durant. It doesn't have to be about just scoring.

The draft after the top 2 is just average. The draft has more depth than usual but after the top 2 it goes back to normal. Brewer had a so-so year but a great final 4 so his stock is high. He is certainly NOT a great ball handler and his shot was off for a lot of the year. It just proves people remember the last thing you do, not the body of work. Marvin would be a no brain 3 pick this year and its stupid to suggest otherwise.

The guys who voted 9-11 or outside the lottery should quit posting now and find another activity like sewing or bowling.

[bfwolf]

Pete, your comparison is unfair. 3rd year NBA players will, on average, be significantly better than rookies. Does that mean every team in the NBA should be willing to trade their rookies for a marginally better 3rd year player? No, it doesn't. The rookies generally have more future upside, and more importantly, the rookies are signed to relatively cheap contracts for 4 years while the 3rd year guys are only on their cheap contracts for 2 more years.

After seeing Marvin play for 2 years, I think most people would agree that he's been a disappointment. He doesn't have future All-Star in him and will likely be nothing more than an OK starter. I'd much rather take a chance on guys like Brewer or Green who have more upside and not much lower downside, even if they don't outperform a 3rd year Marvin in their rookie year (which is not out of the question).

[TexasPete]

Your ready to say a player at age 20 who averaged 13.3 cannot be an All Star? Boy, your tough. BTW, Marvin may have an edge in NBA experience but he is the same age as all these guys. It's all a matter of which ones mature over the next 2-3 years.

I went to 36 games last year and know the players pretty well. I will just tell you that Marvin will be a very fine player. He will be an 18-20 ppg player within 2 years, will play good defense, and is unselfish. He isn't Deron but he will be better than Brandan Wright who has motivation issues and can't shoot outside 12 feet.

The lack of foresight here is staggering. It's a give it to me now and you suck mentality. In the end, I will be correct and you will see. It maybe when Marvin is 24, who knows, but this board will be glad Marvin is a Hawk. Patience grasshopper, we have a crappy coach anyway so its not like we are going anywhere.

[leftwich]

I don't think MW will ever be an all star, and I definitely don't think MW will ever be an integral player on a successful team. The guy's team had a losing record in high school! (high school!)

MW looks like he'd be a great NBA player physically, but he has no energy offensively or defensively. That's the difference between Marvin and Smoove, and that's how you can tell Smoove has potential. Smoove and MW both show flashes of the player they're going to become down the road. Smoove wants the ball down the stretch and makes a few spectacular plays a game. Marvin sits 18-20 feet out and fires midrange jumpers at about 40%. Essentially you're asking a player who's shown nothing to completely revamp his game. Do you honestly see this kind of transformation coming from a guy who appears not to care?

I hope I'm wrong. I hope MW becomes a great NBA player, but I would be absolutely shocked if he's ever named to an all-star team.

As much as people don't want BK to take Noah since he has no definite fit on this team (and I have to agree), it would certainly be refreshing to have an energetic, hard working player around. Maybe it'll rub off on Sheldon and Marvin who sleep walk through games.

[AtLaS]

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Marvin would be a no brain 3 pick this year and its stupid to suggest otherwise.

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You can see the future?? ZOMG!! I'd like to schedule an appointment next week there, Miss Cleo. I have constantly said "IMO, I doubt, I think," which is OPINION. You respond as if what you speak is fact. So how was Marvin's junior year TP?

Everything else I've replied, you still haven't responded too, not surprisingly.

[TexasPete]

It's a waste to respond to your "opinion" on Marvin. You don't want to look at the situation with any objectivity. In the Hawks last 3 drafts BK has not one time picked the guy that I wanted. But, out of the last 3 picks (chill, mw, sw) I would take Marvin all day. And he gets the most crap of anyone to include the biggest bust I can remember in the top 5, Shelden.

Marvin should have been a senior in HS his freshman year at UNC. He is abnormally young for a second year player. Although he was not the right choice, I am higher by far on him than the other two because he can get his own shot and he can get to the line...and he is just 20. Neither Chill or SW can even get their own shot and they are both 3 years older. So, if the board were giving Chill and SW the same crap as Marvin then count me in as well. But, MW gets more crap and because he is 20 and has obvious skill I'm going to be more patient than with the other two.

I believe in the next 2 years Marvin will pay big dividends. We have already gone through the painful time with Marvin. Now that the payoff is around the corner we get guys wanting to unload him. Atlas, the fact you stand next to Diesel and Walter should be proof enough for a reasonable man that your on the wrong side of this deal. Because you couldn't fill a thimble with what either one of those guys knows about basketball. Diesel just said that Spencer Hawes could at least be as good as Tim Duncan on offense with work. That's your wing man bro.

[TroyMcClure]

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The guys who voted 9-11 or outside the lottery should quit posting now and find another activity like sewing or bowling.

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I was voting based on what I thought another GM would give up for Marvin Williams. Admittedly, I have not Mel kiper-ed this years class. No doubt Marvin is as good as any of those guys, probably better. I thought the question was what his overall value is.

Implying what we could get for him, not what his value to you is, right? I like Marvin. He has a nice stroke and eventually I think he'll be a super player. My frustration is mainly with the ASG, BK, and Woody. You know that. My frustration with Marvin is that he's not Deron Williams. I don't know if the Hawks can wait on Marvin. You know how stupid those guys are, TP. I just don't think Joe, Smoove, and Marvin is going to do it for us. I don't feel that as the core of a contender. Do you? That's really the larger question, I think.

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Marvin should have been a senior in HS his freshman year at UNC. He is abnormally young for a second year player. Although he was not the right choice, I am higher by far on him than the other two because he can get his own shot and he can get to the line...and he is just 20. Neither Chill or SW can even get their own shot and they are both 3 years older. So, if the board were giving Chill and SW the same crap as Marvin then count me in as well. But, MW gets more crap and because he is 20 and has obvious skill I'm going to be more patient than with the other two.

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This is how I feel exactly. I give the other guys way more crap than him. He's at least 5th or 6th on my list of complaints with the players.

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Brewer had a so-so year but a great final 4 so his stock is high. He is certainly NOT a great ball handler and his shot was off for a lot of the year. It just proves people remember the last thing you do, not the body of work.

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This kind of works against your argument. The last thing Marvin has done is play for the Hawks. His stock would have to be lower now than when we picked him #2. Wasn't it you that said we are the NBA Siberia? He's part of that. The only Hawks that is truly talked about is Smoove. No one at the gym, park, watercooler, espn, etc even talks about Joe. I give Marvin a pass for last year with the hand thing. The clock is ticking on the Hawks and their fans though, as your story illustrates.

[AtLaS]

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It's a waste to respond to your "opinion" on Marvin. You don't want to look at the situation with any objectivity.

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I'm sorry if I just don't see all this potential that you see. The sad thing is that all of his weaknesses written on his PREDRAFT writeup are the exact same as they are today. It seriously looks as if they wrote it yesterday.

BTW I know you didn't want Marvin in the draft, I just vehemently disagree with your optimism on Marvin.. I'm not saying he doesn't have the ability to get better, he just hasn't shown any so far.

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Neither Chill or SW can even get their own shot and they are both 3 years older.

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What? Marvin creating his own shot? Good one..

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Now that the payoff is around the corner we get guys wanting to unload him.

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Again, when have I EVER suggested trading Marvin?

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Atlas, the fact you stand next to Diesel and Walter should be proof enough for a reasonable man that your on the wrong side of this deal.

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Yeah ok. Because I agree with someone else (who are your personal arch enemies) than I am wrong. That makes sense.

[Dukegotgame]

yeah a kid who averaged 14 pts in the nba at the age of 20 after missing the first part of the season with an injury sucks. the level of intelligence in this thread is breathtaking.

[bfwolf]

Pete, I hope you're right, but in my opinion (again, just my opinion), Marvin shows some, but not great, promise. I don't see 18-20 ppg in his future. I think once he gets 3 point range, he'll be a moderately effective starter. I think he's more likely to continue averaging 13-15 ppg, but to get it more efficiently than he is now (he couldn't be much less efficient!) He's not a good rebounder. His defense is OK but nothing special and is unlikely to significantly improve (defense rarely does). His athleticism is good but not mind-blowing like it was touted pre-draft. I just don't see him being that great. He'll be OK, but that's not good enough.

[AtLaS]

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the level of intelligence in this thread is breathtaking.

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lmao you just nailed yourself with your first sentence. Why don't you take Webster's method and look up the word "efficiency" before you make a dumbfounded comment like that.

Allen Iverson scored over 20 ppg in the playoffs this year, he played great too right?

[Guest Walter]

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If you think Brandon Wright could have averaged 13.3 last year in the NBA get off the crack.

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...in his 1st AND 2nd year than MW did in his 1st and 2nd years respectively.

Anyone willing to take that bet? Nobody?

Hardly any player gets the opportunities HANDED to them like MW has. As if points were THE measuring stick. Wright will outplay MW per minute in the vast majority of categories. Overall he will embarass MW. TENDEX, Roland rating, whatever...embarass him.

W