If Childress is being moved, Crittenton is...

[mrhonline]

...the best solution to fill that gap, barring a trade. He's got the size to guard many 2's in the NBA.

Thoughts?

[DJlaysitup]

I would tend to agree...but we would have to use the #11 pick to get him...and we need that for other purposes.

If we have:

JJack

Joe Johnson

Josh Smith

Pau Gasol

Zaza/Shelden

[exodus]

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...the best solution to fill that gap, barring a trade. He's got the size to guard many 2's in the NBA.

Thoughts?

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Our primary need is a starting pg not a backup 2. And in a league where speed is at a premium at the pg position (see Tony Parker) i don't think drafting a guy who is by far the slowest of the 3 pgs available is a good move.

Not to mention Crits very questionable decision making.

Wasn't it you who was arguing agianst Crit all along?

[Lascar78]

So we're going to replace a SF playing backup SG with a PG playing backup SG? No.

[Nicholasp27]

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And in a league where speed is at a premium at the pg position (see Tony Parker) i don't think drafting a guy who is by far the slowest of the 3 pgs available is a good move.

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do we know that Crit is slowest WHILE DRIBBLING THE BALL of the 3? again, there are people who can outsprint conley/law/crit yet would be much much slower in a game dribbling a basketball, driving

if crit has the same speed WITH THE BALL as conley/law, then there is no difference...and if he has better speed throughout a game, as opposed to when fresh and doing a 3sec sprint, then that's also better

[exodus]

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And in a league where speed is at a premium at the pg position (see Tony Parker) i don't think drafting a guy who is by far the slowest of the 3 pgs available is a good move.

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do we know that Crit is slowest WHILE DRIBBLING THE BALL of the 3? again, there are people who can outsprint conley/law/crit yet would be much much slower in a game dribbling a basketball, driving

if crit has the same speed WITH THE BALL as conley/law, then there is no difference...and if he has better speed throughout a game, as opposed to when fresh and doing a 3sec sprint, then that's also better

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LOL so you think Crit magically becomes faster when he is dribbling? You think he doesn't get tired like everyone else?

WTF

Plus speed WITH THE BALL doesn't mean squat on defense which is half the game.

[Nicholasp27]

crit may simply be faster with the ball...when u are dribbling u can't run as fast as a sprint...some players are faster while dribbling than others, even tho their sprint speeds may be the same or less

additionally, how is his first step? second step?...those are what determines ease in blowing by your defender, not your 3/4 court sprint time

and i doubt his slightly slower sprint speed will matter often when getting back on defense

u are using one test to determine his in-game speed, which is illogical

[exodus]

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u are using one test to determine his in-game speed, which is illogical

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If that is the case then the NBA combine, NFL combine and the other sports that use the sprint are illogical as well.

What i know for a fact is that Crit timed slower than any recent well known pg besides Marcus Williams, and Williams was known BEFORE the draft to be lacking athletically.

If someone is slower without the ball it is highly likely they are slower with the ball.

[Nicholasp27]

ugh

u can use the sprint as a factor, and as one variable to consider, which is what teams do

however, u are making the illogical leap of saying that the results mean that crit will be slower in-game than conley/law, which may or may not be true

[exodus]

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u are making the illogical leap of saying that the results mean that crit will be slower in-game than conley/law, which may or may not be true

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No it would be illogical to say that Crit would be as fast in games as Conley/Law since they both beat him easily in the sprint.

It would be like saying Law can jump as high as Crit in games, he just couldn't do it at the combine.

[Nicholasp27]

but i'm not saying he will be; i'm saying that he won't necessarily be slower due to that one test result

saying he won't necessarily be slower does not imply that he will be as fast/faster

[frosgrim]

To add to the discussion of workout times, its a single sprint time, we really need multiple sprint times over several days to get a better picture at what a guys time is. The combine gives a clue as to what a guy can do, but its no where near the whole story.

What Nick is saying regarding dribbling and speed is true. Dribbling is a hand/eye/leg coordination issue. If you have to concentrate on your dribble, it slows you down. I am not saying that Critt is better on the dribble, but the question is a legitimate one and is partially independent of pure sprint speed.

In all, Critt's numbers were not as good as I hoped they would be, which puts him in 3rd place amongst the top 3 point guards in terms of pure athleticism. However, Critt and Law are both significantly better shooters than Conely. Conely seems to be a better passer. The next question is who seems to have the better on ball defense? Conely seems to have the body to be a good on ball guy (very long arms), but Critt has the size to handle the larger PGs. At this point it really is a crap-shoot as to which of the two freshmen guards will be better.

From a pure basketball standpoint,both guys should have stayed in college to get better point skills. However, they certainly will make enough money over the next few years to make themselves quite happy.

[exodus]

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What Nick is saying regarding dribbling and speed is true. Dribbling is a hand/eye/leg coordination issue. If you have to concentrate on your dribble, it slows you down. I am not saying that Critt is better on the dribble, but the question is a legitimate one and is partially independent of pure sprint speed.

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If Crit was a better ball handler than Law/Conley i doubt he would have had so many more turnovers than they did. I doubt he would have struggled so much against ball pressure.

Crit might be faster WITH THE BALL than Oden (who beat Crit in the sprint) but not Conley/Law.

[txsting]

I'm with you on this thought. I think the idea is that Crittenton gives you flexibility. He can play backup minutes at SG easily. He'll still be groomed for the starting PG role, and in time he has the talent to fill that better than anyone in this draft (in my opinion of course).

I'm beaten down by the speed argument. We're talking fractions of a second here. And raw speed has little or nothing to do with game speed. Who wants to argue the athletic merits, with respect to speed, of Kidd, Billups, Deron? They aren't track stars, but they all have great ability and skill in getting their man off balance. That's what it's all about.

[exodus]

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Who wants to argue the athletic merits, with respect to speed, of Kidd, Billups, Deron?

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Deron tested faster than Crit as well. I don't have the times for Kidd and Billups but even if they aren't that much faster they are much better players. If you are trying to compare Crit's skill level to those three you are reaching big time.

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And raw speed has little or nothing to do with game speed

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So a player magically becomes faster when they get on the court. OK

There is a reason Crit was seen as the 3rd rated pg before the combine. It is because he didn't perform well against good teams or in the post season. He made bad decisions and turned it over a lot.

However he was seen as having a lot of upside because of his size and athleticism. Turns out both were overrated relative to the other two pgs rated ahead of him.

[txsting]

Players don't get faster on the court, they get SLOWER (with ball in hand that is). How much the ball slows them down is the factor that we don't know. Who cares how fast a PG can sprint without the ball - they usually have the ball in a fast break scenario anyway.

To another point, basketball players don't generally practice their 40 yard sprints, certainly not like football players do. If you are not trained in track or have put in a lot of practice, it easy to turn in a time that doesn't reflect your capability (hint - it's all about the start). Conley might actually be a lot faster than he timed, Crit might even be slower, could be the other way around - fact is we don't know.

Every year, these combines tell us who is the "best athelete" and then you never hear of that guy (and many other high finishers) again. The correlation factor is not strong. Even size and length are probably overrated for correlation to on-court results. So I'm not about Crit simply because he's 6'4" - I'm about him because he can shoot the rock, handle the ball, drive and finish, and distribute off the drive. And on balance, it's my opinion he's nearly as valuable as Conley - certainly to the point of not reaching for Conley at #3. If Conley as available at #11, I would probably choose him over Crit - I'm just saying it's hard to argue there is a wide gap. I'm certainly not buying the argument that the combine results demonstrate that gap.

[exodus]

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To another point, basketball players don't generally practice their 40 yard sprints,

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They run sprints in practice every friggin day. it was a 3 quarter court sprint. What do you think they do in practice anyway?

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The correlation factor is not strong.

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The combine doesn't measure skills which is the key factor in any sport.

But pre-combine the guards were rated

1 Conley

2 Law

3 Crit

by nearly everyone. Conley tested as the 4th best athlete in the entire draft. Law tested better than people thought, Crit didn't. Conley and Law helped themselves which pushes Crit further down.

How good would iverson have been with average speed? How good would Jordan have been with a 32 inch vertical?

The NBA is a league full of athletes like it or not. If you are weaker,slower, or don't jump as well as most of the players you face it is a negative.

[Lascar78]

I can't believe you guys are arguing over this. Crittenton tested a lot slower than Conley and Law. Is it possible that he is faster than them with the ball? Yes, but it is HIGHLY unlikely. The guy is just slower than them.

[exodus]

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I can't believe you guys are arguing over this. Crittenton tested a lot slower than Conley and Law. Is it possible that he is faster than them with the ball? Yes, but it is HIGHLY unlikely. The guy is just slower than them.

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Sometimes i feel like i am in a parallel universe on this board.

[AtLaS]

I've told you a billion times he still has a height advantage over 95% of PGs in the league. He still has a 38 inch vertical which is close to Conley and punks Law. He tested faster than Conley in the agility test.

I've also told you that a 3/4 court sprint isn't even that important, how often does someone have to outrun someone 3/4 of the court for something? If he is a step ahead of someone, they aren't getting back just because they ran the sprint .2 seconds faster. Full court speed also has NOTHING to do with quickness or a player's first step, a players moves, dribble moves, hesitation moves, crossovers, etc.. If he beats a player off the dribble, they are beat and aren't getting back, period. A 3/4 court sprint really proves nothing in terms of those intangibles. Plus, since he has a size advantage, he doesn't necessarily NEED to be fast. He has the advantage at the PG position at so many other things. I constantly beat people off the dribble that are quicker than me, flat out top end speed has NOTHING to do with that.