Is it me......

[Guest]

those were the only two baskets he scored all night then. wow. and when bradley dunked over shaq a minute ago, guess that means shaq sucks too...

two baskets for four points in sixteen minutes. end of story - there's no way you can say he "abused" anyone tonight.

[Guest]

What about Okur?He abused Theo in the game in

Detroit.Theo can;t shut guys down and nobody is

scared of him.He got pushed around by a youngstar

with a very unpolished game.Theo is overrated...but

now like he was a couple of years ago.

[jaywalker72]

Okur abused the bench, mainly, though he did score one basket late on Theo.

Okur got all of his points in the fourth quarter, most of which (save the last bucket) at the expense of Henderson, Shareef, and whoever was asked to switch to him (Ham).

He was unconcious, tossing in wacky shot after wacky shot and getting fouled thanks to a "throw myself into you as I shoot from my feet" style that clearly puzzled the Hawks.

Theo came back in and did give up one basket to Okur, but then down the stretch, the Pistons stopped going to the hot Turkan...

[cyman3]

1)hes healthy

2)plays strong near the end of the game

http://media.nba.com/media/sprite/cc1223_r...f_t_block_1.avi

see for urself

[Guest]

I see he averages a lousy 7 rebounds which is

terrible.Blocks are the most overrated stat in

the NBA because the offensive team often

keeps the ball anyways.

[chillzatl]

all of those guys are capable of consistantly running an offense. There is a difference in getting 8 assists and getting getting 8 assists while effectively leading a team.

Do you mean to tell me that when Jason Kidd gets 8 assists, his game looks anything like JT's? NO, it doesn't. Because Kidd knows how to run an offense, he is aware of where everyone on his team is at on the floor. The same goes for Cassell and Payton. Arenas and Francis also have more of those innate skills than JT has. That's what makes a point guard. that's the difference in a real point guard and a guy who is just playing the position.

There's a reason why Gilbert Arenas is considered one of the hottest (top 6) free agents this summer and JT clocks in at about 20 on that list. It's not about stats, because JT has better stats, including assists. It's because people can tell that Arenas has those inborn abilities and is appropriately sized for his position. Those same poeple can tell that JT is a SG in a PG's body and he DOES NOT have those innate point guard skills.

[Guest]

It's also because Arenas came from nowhere to make the team, and is now putting up those numbers. Much like Bobby Jackson, who no one really cared about last year or prior to taht. Suddenly he's always mentioned...you remember when Mark Jackson had the same hype in Golden State, Rookie of the Year over Miller etc...you have to be careful in going with the hype, cuase it's just that, hype!

Good thing Minny got Jackson to spruce up their frontcourt with Joe Smith...

[Guest]

A - he's no a premier rebounder with KG, Duncan, and Wallace...no one ever said that he was.

B- his mpg are at 30...anyone remember the early part of theyear when theo was forced to average about 20 mpg due to foul trouble (which he is no longer in?). He's had to bring he boarding numbers up quite a bit from there (I would guess) and in bringing his blocks up...he's just been on a tear since the new year started.

Fact of the matter is he's right at his career numbers, numbers that would have earned him DPY in 2001 and had the nation raving as he exhibited those skills on a winnign team in Philly...

Dude, I'm not saying that some of us don't homer from time to time. I try to be somewhat even-keeled, nevertheless, you're a hater, plain and simple. Never the compliment, only the bad. IT's just over the top and makes your accurate criticisms less apparent/actually thought about because you're always crying crap.

[Diesel]

Isn't that a self defeating argument.

First, I'm for Keeping JT under reasonable circumstances..

However, your argument that Arenas came from "nowhere" with his numbers is why he's being pushed for the big contract is BULL.

Seriously... Two reasons.

1. JT should be getting that same kind of press. JT has put up good numbers even as a PG... Yet, last night, he was being compared to Lindsey Hunter and Juan Dixon... Not Francis and Arenas.

2. Gilbert isn't the only one in GS that has been showing off. Really, their credit should go to Earl Boykins. He has been their best player at times.... He will be a free agent and there's no big Money talk in his future. He is in the same situation as Arenas. Came out of Nowhere to make the team and has played very well. In the 4th, you know who will toe the line at PG.... BUT... No contract talk of FAcy buzz for him.

I have to agree with Chillz. There's something about Arenas and it's his potential to be a PG in the style of Payton. JT doesn't have that. IN fact, the Front office sounds like they have given up on JT as a PG if you ask Denberg.

[Guest]

He was overhyped but I believe he averaged 12PPG 8RPG

3.7blk not his career numbers as you said.

7/7 isn't enough production to be called a allstar or a

good player for that matter.His one on one defense

is terrible and he doesn't hit the boards like a center

shoot.

[chillzatl]

simply because he's JT and he's a great guy. I agree, JT is a great guy and if he could play the position the way it needs to be played, I would slap the virtual "franchise" label on him and he'd be a Hawk for life.

But unfortunately for JT I'm more of a Hawks fan than a JT fan. I want this team to be something I can be proud of. Something I can feel good about spending time and money on.

This team needs someone who can lead them, stats be damned. That person is not JT. I played blind and refused to see it earlier in the year, [censored] even last year. I can only see a few scenarios that allow us to keep JT and not be a losing team.

1. sign and trade for a real PG, even a offensively limited one, who can run an offense consistantly.

2. somehow manage to get a multi-talented SG who can help JT.

Of course, if we can't do iether, we need to keep him. Because he does give us a chance to win, just not a consistant one.

[Diesel]

Basically, you just said ..

Trading JT for Ward is a good thing?

I don't agree. JT may have his shortcomings as a PG, but he's still a good player. I think that what we should do is focus our attentions on Jalen Rose. See what Chicago's asking price is. He would be the perfect SG for us.

I said the other day...

Rose/Fizer/2nd for Shareef.

I still to that.

Not that I have any faith in Fizer. I have none in him. Nor in a second. However, I think that if we are going to invest in JT as a PG, having Rose as his OG is what is needed.

Rose is also a leader.

[chillzatl]

if we had a properly sized SG that was offensively gifted like JT, yes, a charlie ward type PG would be plenty for us. CHarlie Ward plays good D, protects the ball and doesn't make a lot of stupid mistakes. He's not a flashy, pg, but if you give him people to pass to, he will get the job done. He has court smarts.

The only way JT can be successful as a full time PG is to get a SG with some PG skills. We've said this a thousand times. Rose, as you mentioned, is a very obvious candidate.

The next obvious solution is to move JT for a PG with more court savvy.

I never suggested we should dump him for crap though. That would be a huge mistake. If we can't make ourselves better, then we need to keep him because he is a talented player. But we can't sit on our hands and NOT seek to improve just because JT is a "great guy".

[cyman3]

until i see him with a good SG playing next to him.

No- Glover and Newble do not cut it!

We need a BETTER SG, a traditional SG.

I want to see how we play with a GOOD SG.

[jjjohns3]

And u all know if we were winning 40somethin' games this yr. JT would be one of the most highly sought after FA this summer. Give him a chance, basketball is a hard sport to learn. Especially when you're constantly movin' from positions.

I completely get tired of all of y'alls b*tchin' & moanin' every time somethin' goes wrong. JR Rider acted the same way when things didn't go his way, Ron Artest acts the same way when things don't go his way. Truth be told, Pete never put the CHEMISTRY concept into use when he acquired Big Hog,not like Peotrie{I think that's his name} did in Sacramento, not like Nellie in Dallas. They made their acquisitions thinkin' TEAM instead of believing ONE MAN who's a mediocre player at best &,lacks any type of Athletic Ability could bring this team out of the gutter. IN SACtown & Dallas they brought in the players that would complement each other. And personally, I believe that with Pete gone that we're gonna see some major changes, & I know that they'll be for the better.

~Peace

[Diesel]

I would even take JT and another PG. With Zone defense, it's possible that we can play some small ball.

For instance.

If we were to trade Nazr to Portland for McInnis/Filler (PTL has some good Filler)... I would play JT with McInnis as his SG. McInnis is just as much PG as JT but I think he has the strength to play the SG position in a Zone.

So it's not neccessarily only Barry and Rose that would make JT a better PG, but there are some PGs who can play next to JT that can help him too.

[KB21]

Because if Arenas had those innate abilities, he would have at least played the position at the collegiate level. He didn't. Jason Terry did.

If Golden State were losing, Arenas wouldn't be on anyone's list right now. But, he's available, he's uptting up solid numbers, and the Warriors are a surprise team. It still doesn't discount the fact that Earl Boykins is the Warriors point guard when they need floor leadership, and it doesn't discount the fact that the reason people are willing to give Arenas a big contract is because they feel he can learn the position.

The only reason Jason Terry is down on the list is because of the Hawks right now, and because Chad Ford, who put out that list, at ESPN Insider is a dumbfuck who doesn't know what he's talking about.

Terry has 21 games where he has gotten double digit assists. Arenas has 12 games. Francis has 7. Cassell has 6.

[TheDude]

I mean JT is our second best player and we're putting it on him? He's kept this team barely watchable the last two years..

I do understand the point guard dilemna but it is easily fixed one of two ways. Get a Sg who can handle the rock or put JT at Sg and get a tall Pg who can play defense.. That simple.

But if we're talking keeping him as a bench player(WHAT?!) and trading even for charlie ward, I mean come on...I know we're upset with our team and frustrated but i mean really... JT is a very good player, but his size throws us into a dilemna..But there are ways to solve that..

I guarantee this, we let him go and he goes to another team that knows how to play defense and use it's players, he's an allstar...

[chillzatl]

JT is a very good player. he is NOT a very good point guard. Why is it that, because people like him a a player and a person, that they cannot see that he IS NOT a good point guard? He does not see the floor and he doesn't have a feel for the game. Those are two things that make a point guard and he lacks them.

"I guarantee this, we let him go and he goes to another team that knows how to play defense and use it's players, he's an allstar... "

You see, that's the problem. JT is the point guard, it is HIS RESPONSIBILITY to use the players around him. He cannot consistantly do that. HE is too easily taken out of his "game plan". That's the sign of a good point guard. They can get guys involved even when a team changes their strategy on them. They keep the offense moving even when they aren't getting a lot of assists.

Beyond that, nobody is paying attention to what i'm saying. I'm not saying we trade JT for charlie ward, that's stupid. I said that if we could trade JT for a quality SG, a REAL SG with REAL Size. A pg of charlie wards caliber would be good enough to lead this team to the playoffs.

IF we can't move JT for a quality SG and a decent PG or a quality PG. We defiinitely have to keep him. He is too dynamic of a player to just let him go for nothing.

Some of you guys need to put your love for JT aside and think about his shortcomings and what is best for this team.

[chillzatl]

I mean, do you watch the games? First off, answer me that question. Because I do. I watch nearly every game that is played by this team.

The reason I ask, is because if you DO watch the games. Then why are you pretending to be blind to JT's faults? If you look at the boxscore, sure, JT looks like a solid PG. But the boxscore doesn't tell the whole story. That's why every sports writer in the nation who writes anything about teh Hawks says "we need a REAL pg". These guys can see that JT IS NOT A REAL PG. He lacks the vision to successfully run an offense the way a point guard should.

He cannot consistantly run an offense. The fact that he gets a lot of assists is a testiment to the guys around him being able to hit shots. It says NOTHING about his ability to actually run a smooth offense AND keep it going when teams change their strategy on him.

Every big assist game that JT has, you will usually see Shareef, Dion or Bigdog having a HUGE game as well. That's because those guys are hot, JT drives, dishes and they get points. BUt that's not running an offense! If teams start collapsing in the lane so that he can't drive and dish, our offense sputters to a stop. If they start doubling him, our offense clams up. That's where consistancy comes into play. JT lacks the ability to just find his guys in the right spots. He doesn't see the floor well enough to do that. He can make good, strong passes. BUt he cannot see the floor or see plays developing around him CONSISTANTLY enough to be a real PG in this league.

You compare that to someone like jason Kidd. Jason Kidd creates shots for EVERYONE ON HIS TEAM. not just his big scorers. I mean you put brian Scalibrene in the game and Kidd will find him cutting the basket. You put him in the game iwth JT and the only time he's ever going to get the ball is when it's being moved around the perimeter to dump it into Shareef.

That's the difference in "running an offense" and just "getting assists". it's a big difference, a HUGE difference.

ANd once again, i'm not suggesting we let JT walk or we trade him for junk. But we have to be realistic and put this Love affair for JT aside and consider what is best for this team. If we can't get something truely make us better, we have to keep him. He's a heck of a player, but he's never going to be a point guard. But if we can make a trade to improve us, to bring us that consistant floor leadership, we can't NOT do it just because "JT is a nice guy".