Diesel Explores the mind of Babcock.

[Guest]

After reading some of the things Babcock has had to say recently, I have put it into the Diesel Computer and this is what we have:

Babcock will make a trade.

IN that Trade, Babcock will get rid of a whole lot of loose players.

Babcock may also part with a valuable player in the process.

After much detailed research, I think that Babcock will either get a SG or a SF... A SG first is my belief.

Now comes the Hard part. What is Babcock thinking.

Well, I hate to say this, but I believe that Babcock wants a Scoring 2 that can also play some 3.

The players that Babcock will use in trade is Hanno and Maybe Toni.

My first thought is:

Hanno/Toni to Utah for Russell.

Here's why I think it is this:

Utah needs PF/C help.

Toni gives them experience and they can use him for one more run with Stockton and Malone.

Hanno gives them a young player (Utah favorite) who can play with Deshawn's gang when Malone is gone. Not to mention that Utah might higher Majerus and bring in Van Horn in the future.

Here's what I have against this trade:

Utah wants Donyell Marshall back. They can't really do that unless they first get a PG. They need a PG in the worst possible way. DD could be added and Toni taken away but we need DD.

Secondly, Russell has never struck me as neccessary.

TRADE #2

Hanno/Toni to San Antonio for Steve Smith.

Why this trade makes sense. San Antonio has need for a PF replacement for Duncan. Backups too. Toni would fit in with the mold of their team. Also, San Antonio rebuilding has already started.

Smith is a great fit here. We move DJ to 3. Play Smitty at 2 with Glover.

I'll talk more later.

[JTFan31]

Oh would I ever love to see Smitty back in a Hawks Uni. I think that is something that would not happen again, but it will be lovely.

[SWOLEHAWK]

"We are still interested in pursuing size in our backcourt. We are discussing trade options with a number of teams to try and add a big time competitor...we want someone with talent who has the intangibles of mental toughness; as well as a player who can defend"

sounds like Russell to me.

[Traceman]

I don't think he would be Babs first choice but it could happen if he can't get the guy(s) he would rather have. Russell has many of the attributes that Babs said he is looking for (size, defends well, mentally tough, and he at least has some talent). I can't envision Utah doing that deal though because doing it would likely prevent them from being able to sign Marshall. I can't see us doing it because no way in hell Babs signs Russell to a deal making what Toni makes. I wouldn't even give him $4.5 million/season, let alone what Toni makes.

As far as Smitty goes, forget about it! He is in the last year of his deal and SA is trying to clear cap room. Why would they take on Kukoc's deal when his deal is longer? In addition, Smitty certainly doesn't fit the idea of a guy who can defend so I doubt that he is on Babcock's mind.

[BlackHawkDown]

I wouldn't mind either trade but the other teams would be foolish to go for it. especially Utah they ar old enough as is without adding a 90 year old sissy baller like Kukoc. Besides they already have the GREAT AND FANTASTIC DONYELLL MARSHAALLLL.

[Guest]

Russell fits but I just don't see us taking him. However, if Utah trades for Van Horn........

Probably Kirilenko/Marshall/Padgett all sign and trade for Van Horn...

They will probably get rid of Russell too. The future is Stevenson. The future is also Majeris. If they get Majeris, look for him to hook up with some old friends....

ALA Van Horn, Miller (next yr), and Hanno. Then look for them to throw some Junk defenses at the league.

All that really means is that Russell is definitely out.

[Guest]

Smitty may be very possible.

Somebody said that San Antonio is trying to free up Cash.

Well, I think losing Duncan and Robinson's contracts will do that just fine.

More specifically, their roster for the rebuild is already set:

Tony Parker/Speedy Claxton

Antonio Daniels/ Charles Smith/SG BU

SF/Stephen Jackson/SF BU

PF/PF BU

Rose/McCaskill

This is with Duncan and Robinson gone. Seeing that, Duncan will probably yield a SF or a PF that is of high quality and some picks. I'm thinking if he goes to Orlando, they might get Miller and Hunter plus a boatload of picks.

Point is that with their rebuild, they could still use a guy like Toni... and Hanno at either of the positions that are open.

The free agents waters look very empty for next season. Other than Duncan and Robinson, whoose left??

[Guest]

The bad thing about Babcock's talk is this:

It could be that DJ is on the trading block as well.

I don't know how interested Babs is in going JT/DD.. But it seems to me like after the summer league, Babs will make a decision regaurd DJ too.

Look over the list that he said will play in Boston.

Ratliff, Dj, Glover a few others. I think Ratliff to get into shape... OR to sport him in a trade.

Like I have said many times before Summer League means nothing...

So if Ratliff is playing in it, he must be on display for the league. If he plays 100%, maybe we will get some trade offers.

But I think Babs is considering trading Dj?

[Jester]

Do we really need to make any trades, especially for a SF?And probably most important is Can we afford the kind of player we would like to have and at the cost of trading what player would it come? Did anyone notice how well Ira played D and how he did not do so bad on O either this past season? The forum is set on DJ being the 2G and Terry being PG, except for some minutes when JT plays some OG. Fine. Back to Ira, what is wrong with having him as our starting SF? All the Worm ever did was play D, so why can't we have such a player and still be a winning team? Sure, Pete B. may make some trades that he thinks will put us in an ever better position, but I don't see the ned to rush. We're all set at the 5 and 4 positions, that is if Theo plays more than 2 games next season (do anyone think that he does not want to play here still?) Why did he sell his Philly house to Deke and would he be building a house here? Then again, Even Barkley (and Deke) has a house here because all these players like our city. Back to Ira. Do we really need to get an All Star (or close to it) SF or should we just use Ira (and possible Toni K.) as complementary players and let Theo, SAR, JT, and DJ be the real stars? Why get someone else who will be fighting for points? That's what LA has with their SF, someone unselfish who gets garbage points like Hendu used to get and play as much D as possible for the team; and that is with LA only having 2 star players (horry is ok, but he's no star player). Pete B. may make some trades, but I bet you would not be able to guess in a million year...

[Traceman]

Look at that pathetic lineup they would have left:

Tony Parker/Speedy Claxton

Antonio Daniels/ Charles Smith/SG BU

SF/Stephen Jackson/SF BU

PF/PF BU

Rose/McCaskill

Parker is the only top quality starter in the bunch. What FA in their right mind would want to go (or more importantly STAY) there. SA is going to do everything they can to have as much caproom as possible so that they can compete for Duncan. If they can clear enough caproom to resign Duncan and still have room to go after Kidd and one of the other quality FA's who will be available (Jermaine O'Neal, Payton, Zo , Mailman), they could be rebuilt in a hurry. In addition, Stack and Vlade have opt out clauses that year (McDyess might too but I heard he waved it).

Would Duncan rather go to ORL and play with T Mac and G Hill or would he rather stay in SA and play with Kidd and say Jermaine O'Neal, Zo or Stackhouse? In addition, if Duncan Leaves, they can go after 3 quality FA's. I don't think they will take Kukoc at any rate, regardless of what their long term plans are. Smitty has at least as much value as Kukoc, probably more because he has an ending contract. Fuhgetaboudit!

[Guest]

I've been on the Utah board and trust me....you don't

want Bryon Russell.His shoot skills have declined and

he doesn't have all that much left.Toni(as much as I

rag on him)is a better player than Bryon Russell is now.

Ron Artest would be a good option if we had anything

to offer Indiana.he is young and he has a mean streak

and doesn't get scared of so called superstars.The dude

battled with MJ and broke his ribs.You know he has a

mean streak=)

[Guest]

good post.

Utah is probably the only team that would want Mottola b/c of their old school style of play

But Babcock said their "aiming high" so neither Russell nor Smith are candidates I beleive.

I agree with Jester. We will not guess this upcoming trade in a million years.

I see a Naz and Toni with trash for Sprewell positive, the Knicks may even take Hendu off our hands b/c of their lack of size.

[Diesel]

If all we want is a playoff appearance then, Keep Ira at the Sf. However, if we are trying to win some important games, we need more than Just SAR and JT. Both players can score, but neither is dominant. Both can be shut down and sad to say at the same time even.

We do need that extra player. We do need that offensive threat AT Sf. I really hope we can trade all of our Sf want to bes and keep Ira as a BU... because Really, that's what he is. Just like Corbin was the downfall that kept Smitty, Mookie, Laettner, Deke, and Hendu from beating the bulls.... Ira will be the downfall of our team.

I say it is time for Bold men with good plans to hit the table.

We need to do what we can to secure our present and future.

Somehow we have to get a talent like: Battier, Griffin, Miller, Lewis, Mashburn, Matrix, or Big Dog here to play Sf. You might not like the guys... But they all can give us the help we need. Either that or Eddie Jones as SG.

[Guest]

STARTING Ira at SF isn't great.Look a Detroit.they barely

beat a Carterless Raptor team.They are decent,but having

guys like Micheal Curry starting holds them back.We don't

need the same type of deal here.

I think Babs is looking to build this team on 4 solid stars:

Mookie/Smith/Deke/Leattner

JT/Shareef/Theo/????????????

Less of a defensive unit,but more of a scoring unit but the

same sorta make up.

I think we might be looking at a Mike Miller.Mental toughness

likely counts out Odom...I just don't know what guy Babcock

is after and what he expects.I don't think he is gunna get who

he is looking for.We will make a trade,but I doubt it will the

player babs wants.

I wouldn't mind having Jamal Mashburn.Eddie Jones probably is

who we are still after.

[Diesel]

The sad thing is that Mash might be really cheap.

I mean, he's been injured at the most unopportune time. He's older than their current squad. And they already got a guy in Nailon who can replace him. What they need in NO is a Gunner at SG. We don't have one. Can we get them one??

Let's see...

If we move Toni to here... and Hanno to there.... And put ..... Hmm?

#@@##**&&$$####@!!!

The Diesel computer suggest:

Toni/Hanno/Nazr/1st to Portland.

Davis/Anderson to N.O.

Mash/Magloire to Atlanta.

What's the deal??

Welp, Davis and Anderson wants out.

Portland could use a good rebounder.

If a Deke deal can't go through, they might bite on Nazr with Toni.

NO wins because Anderson can handle the rock and would be perfect playing next to Davis.

They also get DD who can pull down boards and play good D... To replace Campbell in the starting 5.

[Jester]

All fine and dandy there, but the question is what will we have to give in return for a SF than can play, shoot and defend? Look at what our team did on the 2nd half of the season; all this without the services of Theo R.!!!! I have read disturbing comments about Smith on this forum. I am completely sold on him, but he could be above average someday, except he may be a regular Ed Gray type fella. If Smith measures up, we could part with the services of Nazr M., but if he doesn't we need Nazr or someone comparable to replace him. Same goes for Ira N., he brings that D that made the rest of the players better defenders last season, and I am sold on having him on the team, though I would settle for him not starting, if we managed to get one of those cheap "better" SFs you referred to. Do not forget that we still have Toni K. and Dermarr Johnson can still be used as a SF. We had a lot of guns last year and that is why we managed the record we got during the second half. IMO, though, the winnings had a lot to do with Ira playing and JT's and SAR's hunger and abilities. I don't doubt that a healthy Hawks team will make the playoffs, but I also see we carry a little bagagge (is Cal Bowdler really out of the roster already?) that we could get rid of and that may be of use to other teams in Hendu and Crawford. It looks like Vauhn is gone. He contributed nicely at times last season and all I hope is that Brick House (Dickaus) can replace him quite nicely. My guess is that unless Emanual takes his game up a notch (as he sometimes did last season) and keeps it there, he would be traded or released by mid-season. Hendu makes a good complementary bench player when he's healthy and his game is on, but we can no longer count on him much, SAR or Theo can play the 4, so we could use them with Nazr (or his replacement). I look at the whole team, and although I agree with you that if Pete B. manages to make a trade for a complete SF, Ira Newble should come off the bench. This team keeps getting better and better, and I pray for Theo's health and desire for this next season. We will make the playoffs maybe higher than a 7 or 8 seed!!! Let's all wish for Pete B. to blind some team into taking Crawford, Vauhn, and Hendu and give us the PF we really need (but keep Ira handy just in case). PEACE 10-4.

[Diesel]

We should be tired of sitting in the horn section, holding our breath and making people think that we are playing.

That's what we are doing when we put Ira up as a Sf. It's nothing against Ira, he's just better suited as a BU. Really, I don't know if he's better than CC.

It takes more than Talk to be a good team. We've been doing a lot of talking and IMO, we have been doing a lot of dreaming and wishing too.

What the past 2 seasons have shown me is that we don't need Theo as much as many of you think. If we could trade him and get back some quality players, we should do it. Theo and our first for Lo and Battier would be an excellent trade that would meet all of our needs. However, so many of us are so concerned about our defense and how we really need a center... blah blah blah. However, our need for another scorer is more neccessary than that of a defensive player. Look at Philly. They had deke and Iverson. The blocks leader and the steals leader. However, when it came to the big game, they couldn't score enough. That's where we are. We have only two guys who can score and they can easily be shut down. Another legitimate scoring threat would free them.

[Jester]

Yeah. That thought sounds like something Pete B. could be thinking about Theo = Lazy Lo/Shane Battier. I guess Battier was as god and as experienced as he said he would be. I guess we could not pass on getting SAR to get him, but maybe now we could make things right. Do you really think that Mr. West would go for something like that? After all Theo may be considered damaged goods by now. I may do the trade because Battier may be the SF that may become available, is still young, and the one we need. Lo could not defend as well as I would like, even thou he was starting to learn how to stay out of foul trouble on his last season here. I just don't know Diesel, you are not even looking at what things would be like with Theo/SAR/Ira/JT (because you're not entering DJ into the equation. Do you not consider him a descent to good scorer?) What about Theo/SAR/Toni/JT (and DJ again a shooter)? What about Nazr/SAR/Ira/JT/Brick Haus? See, we can combine our forces and have a very capable SF in the game at all times. Let's say your stater is Toni K. at SF since you cannot be sold on a bench player (Ira) as being a starter, even thou his D would get you points off turnovers, etc.? We may think of a set roster where the 5 players are always the starters, but when was the last time we had that? Theo has played, 3, 3 minutes in 2 seasons. Can you really count on a steady roster? If the answer is no, then we could go with 3 or 4 known starters (whomever is healthy amongst Theo, SAR, DJ, and JT) and just insert the 5th player from whomever stays hot the longest - It could be C. CRawford, but his D would hurt you and his O has never as impressive as Ira's D. Come to think of it, I think you may be right, Pete B. has no choice but to get a SF by doing some trades. I trust that he will make a terrific choice and that we will make the playoffs higher than the 8th seed. If only Leon Smith were part of the answer, we could start him or Nazr and get us a great SF with trading Theo since DJ cannot play/doesnot want the position.I don't want to stop thinking for one moment that good D wins games more than good O, if we lose Theo, we better darn well have people on the roster than can defend around the perimeter because there would be no threat at the front court after Theo is gone. We have seen that DJ is a decent defenser, Nazr is not so good a defender, JT si definitely not as good a defenser (hense bringing Brick Has on the team), Toni K., P-l-u-e-e-se, Muttola, Hendu, DG, Crawford, and so on. Only perhaps Emanual and Vauhn, along with Newble can play D. BEfore we go around making trades, we have to think about what we're losing and what we're getting in return. I continue to pray that Pete can pull another rabbitt out of the hat by the start of next season.