Marvin sucked against the Bobcats...

[thesheedera]

Diesel, et al., please fill in the blanks for me.

He should have had 30 and 10, right?

Should have demanded the ball more?

You bash him when he has a good game and we lose. You have to bash him when he has a good game and we win.

Gotta be consistent fellas.

[DavidSomerset]

He's doing exactly what he needs to do by getting to the line so much...I have been very impressed with him lately.

Not to mention, he is a pretty dang good defender for a 21 year old.

[BHayley]

Marvin had 20 against a pretty average team. I think he can get to 26 or 27 potential if he moves more on offense. I was at the game last night and watched Marvin on EVERY SINGLE possession. He stands in the corner and doesn't try get the ball--the person passes it to him when he's in the vicinity. I love he's getting to the FT line, but I want Marvin to start shooting 3's and to try be more eager to get the ball.

[Vafan]

He is playing aggresive, but in a controlled sort of way. Very smart and efficient. Too bad other people on this board doesn't apprciate it. They think that the only way to prove that you are being aggresive is chucking up shots.

[FrankWhite]

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Marvin had 20 against a pretty average team. I think he can get to 26 or 27 potential if he moves more on offense. I was at the game last night and watched Marvin on EVERY SINGLE possession. He stands in the corner and doesn't try get the ball--the person passes it to him when he's in the vicinity. I love he's getting to the FT line, but I want Marvin to start shooting 3's and to try be more eager to get the ball.

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Why do you want him to shoot outside of his range?

[BHayley]

Who says that's his range?

He's just a naturally gifted shooter.

[thesheedera]

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Marvin had 20 against a pretty average team. I think he can get to 26 or 27 potential if he moves more on offense. I was at the game last night and watched Marvin on EVERY SINGLE possession. He stands in the corner and doesn't try get the ball--the person passes it to him when he's in the vicinity. I love he's getting to the FT line, but I want Marvin to start shooting 3's and to try be more eager to get the ball.

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I'd love to see him move without the ball more, but I'm not so sure that it's up to him. Looks to me like he stands still when there's a play being run for someone else, he may be doing what his coach tells him to do.

I hate that he doesn't crash the boards though once the shot goes up.

[TheTruth]

What frustrates me is that I think Marvin has it in him...but just won't assert himself on a consistent basis. As some have said, I do believe he has that potential to score damn near 30 a game because he has a smooth shot and shoots effectively. However, he can't do that by looking timid out there. Getting to the line is a great thing by all means, but with his capabilities, shooting 7-9 times a game shouldn't cut it.

[Diesel]

IF Marvin doesn't play....

We still win the game.

Talk to me when we play a good team and when JJ is not having an allstar like game.

Please. You bring up his games when everybody plays well?? How does that benefit the Hawks?? I don't doubt Marvin's ability to shoot. Give him a wide open shot or an open lane and he will make it.

However, what happens when JJ's game is off?? Talk to me after Marvin has taken over when JJ is having an off night... I guess if that were the case, we'd never speak??

[TexasPete]

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IF Marvin doesn't play....

We still win the game.

Talk to me when we play a good team and when JJ is not having an allstar like game.

Please. You bring up his games when everybody plays well?? How does that benefit the Hawks?? I don't doubt Marvin's ability to shoot. Give him a wide open shot or an open lane and he will make it.

However, what happens when JJ's game is off?? Talk to me after Marvin has taken over when JJ is having an off night... I guess if that were the case, we'd never speak??

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Marvin scored 20 big points in the game and played solid defense. The Hawks certainly may NOT have won the Bobcats game without his solid game. The word that best describes his overall game is SOLID. For some reason people here get all caught up in Josh Smith and his wild swings in his play...while ignoring somebody who plays at a consistently solid way every game. This team has to have consistency from somebody because JJ and Smoove are all over the lot.

Diesel, with all due respect, your disdain for all things Marvin clouds your views and makes your opinion more irrelevant than others on the topic. The day where you can step back and give an honest and objective assesment on Marvin will be the day when people take you seriously. Because right now with every post that you make on Marvin, people here ignore it.

FYI when a player on the Hawks scores 20 points and has a solid all around game...lets just say that performances like that lead to wins. Whether you acknowlege it or not.

[Diesel]

Again...

Point me to a game when JJ is not playing his best and Marvin steps up to carry the team. Until then, just consider Marvin what he is... a role player. Good for 16 points.

[exodus]

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Point me to a game when JJ is not playing his best and

Childress

steps up to carry the team. Until then, just consider

Childress

what he is... a role player. Good for

12

points and

weak defense

.

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[Diesel]

Last time I looked, Childress wasn't Atlanta's Highest pick in History. Childress wasn't a starter... and Childress wasn't carrying around the moniker "Superstar" as some on this board has called Marvin.

Childress is a role player. I suggest that Marvin is the same. Your continue campaign against Childress actually helps prove my point!

[TexasPete]

A 21-year old that averages 16ppg and plays solid defense is not a role player. Certainly no star. But hardly a role player either.

When Marvin is averaging 21-22 ppg you will be saying that its a quiet 21 or 22. You will never allow yourself to enjoy the progress of the player and will always look to complain about Marvin.

Nobody takes you seriously on this issue anyway. Your cred left the building a long time ago.

[exodus]

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Childress is a role player. I suggest that Marvin is the same.

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You suggest wrong. marvin is a better scorer and a better defender. And he is 3 years younger. Simple as that.

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Childress wasn't a starter

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But he has played starters minutes so why does it matter?

When you talk about Marvins college career you said it was an advantage for him to come off the bench and play against "tired starters and backups".

Doesn't Chill have the same advantage now?

[Diesel]

Role is defined on how you play...

Not on Age...

Most of what you have offered is irrelevant.

Marvin is a role player. Watch how he plays.

He doesn't take over games. HE sits back and waits for JJ or Smoove to pass him the ball so he can take the wide open shot. The fact that he doesn't create his own offense and is dependent on somebody else to get him the ball makes him a role player.

[TroyMcClure]

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Point me to a game when JJ is not playing his best

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What is best? That's a judegement call that each person makes.

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Marvin steps up to carry the team.

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What exactly does that mean to you? This is a question you need to answer.

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Until then, just consider Marvin what he is... a role player. Good for 16 points.

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Anybody else cool with that? No problems for me.

Diesel, I hardly read anything you write about Marvin because it seems like you are just ignoring reality. We all have our things, but c'mon. I even gave Woody somewhat of a compliment recently! Marvin is becoming a very solid player. He's the only Hawk that seems to want to go to the line. Free throws are where big time players get their points. I wanted a pg as much as you, but it is what it is. We've got Marvin, and I have seen a clear improvement in his game.

It's the holidays, Diesel. Be kind to Marvin!

I'm going to add this on:

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He doesn't take over games. HE sits back and waits for JJ or Smoove to pass him the ball so he can take the wide open shot. The fact that he doesn't create his own offense and is dependent on somebody else to get him the ball makes him a role player.

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He sits and waits because someone has to. He is one of two Hawks that can consistently hit jumpers. Do you really want Smoove taking a kick out 3? And getting to the line is creating your own offense, imo.

[exodus]

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Marvin is a role player. Watch how he plays.

He doesn't take over games

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Neither does Prince.

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The fact that he doesn't create his own offense and is dependent on somebody else to get him the ball makes him a role player.

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I guess that would explain why he got to the ft line more than anyone on either team against the Cats

[Diesel]

Please.

I've been kind to Marvin all season.

I've applauded Marvin for improving his shooting.

However, it's really bad when you homers start talking about Marvin is a superstar (BUMPY) and this and that when Marvin doesn't step up when our top players are having bad games.

Moreover, do I have to spell out what I mean when I say Carry the team??

Please tell me you're joking? Please tell me you're playing coy..

OK...

Troy...

A player carries his team when the team is struggling to score otherwise and the player takes it upon himself to become the scorer for his team. This can also be done defensively however, defense usually fits without a team plan.

Marvin has never carried this team when we needed him to.

Maybe you'll take the time to read this and see the truth in what I'm saying..

or

Maybe you will put on your homer cap and try to ignore the truth...

Either way... There it is!

[thesheedera]

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Role is defined on how you play...

Not on Age...

Most of what you have offered is irrelevant.

Marvin is a role player. Watch how he plays.

He doesn't take over games. HE sits back and waits for JJ or Smoove to pass him the ball so he can take the wide open shot. The fact that he doesn't create his own offense and is dependent on somebody else to get him the ball makes him a role player.

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If he just takes wide open shots, why does he get fouled so often? He's taken 25 less fts than Smith, 23 more fts than JJ, and more than DOUBLE the number of free throws of Childress, who's 4th on the team.

You don't get fouled on wide open shots.