Horf Value with Hawks fans.

[AtLaS]

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Do you know what teams do to us...

They Zone up on us. They do it because they know that we have nobody in the post who can effectively score and it will force us to shoot over them.

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Actually, zoning up forces teams who score inside to adapt an outside game. It's much tougher to post up against a zone. With Smith/Horford/Daly we'd be one of the worst shooting teams in the league unless we acquire Steve Nash to play PG.

Breaking a zone happens when a team shoots well enough to force the opposing team out of the zone, or a quick guard can penetrate the zone and break it (Acie has the potential to do this). But posting up is almost NEVER the way to break a zone, and Daly/Horford are not good enough to do it.

[Diesel]

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Glad to see you come around a little to Horford, seeing how you didn't believe before the season started, that he could average close to a double-double playing center.

Part of the reason why Horford isn't scoring even more, is because he isn't having plays called for him in the offense. He also needs to refine some of his post moves as well.

Horford has come in, and done exactly what he needed to do for this team. He's the most fundamentally sound player on the team. I'm higher on him now, than I was before the season started.

As far as Dalembett goes, who is he really stopping on the defensive end? He's definitely a good shot blocker, but is he really slowing down anybody in the paint, if he doesn't block a shot? And how good is his offense? He scores, but is it because of a decent post game, or is it because he plays with a good passing PG ( Miller ) and a good passing 2-guard ( Iggy ).

I need to check to see how many of his points come via assists. For the price, Dalembert is definitely overpaid. Horford would have to develop into a Boozer-like PF, if we acquired Dalembert.

My point at the beginning of the season is that Horf will probably not be as good as Yi longterm. I still see it that way. For us, I think he will be very useful. However, as Yi matures, his offensive ability will take off. 7 foot with all those skills are scary.

As far Dalembert, I think he will be a great addition to our team defense. So many times Hawks fans look for individual stoppers. I don't think that's needed. Right now, our team defense is pretty good, but we need better rebounding. That's where Dally will be instrumental to us. IF we limit second chance points, I think we beat most of the teams we play.

For instance...

Milwauke : 18 Offensive rebounds. Out rebounded us 52-40 Loss.

Washington 16 Offensive rebounds. Out rebounded us 50-47. Loss.

Cleveland: 12 Offensive rebounds. Outrebounded us 41-34. Loss.

Indy 14 Offensive rebounds. Outrebounded us 49 - 35. Loss.

Chicago 14 Offensive rebounds. We outrebounded them 54-40. Win.

Point is... Yes, there are some games that can't be explained with rebounding, but rebounding is important .... Point is our opponents are getting about 12.4 ORebs per game. We got to get that down to a respectable number... Something closer to 9.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

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I've been checking the trade boards and Horf has value everywhere.... Except with Hawks fans. Sure, we think he's good but he's not a must keep in the starting lineup nor has he earned the label (with all Hawksqauwkers) as untradable.

Really, since December, his value amoung Squawkers has decreased... For at one point, he was the best prospect on the team. Now, he's just another guy. What has happened?

Do you believe that Horf is playing more tentatively after what Happened with TJ Ford??

I think somebody out to sit down with Horf and explain to him that Ford is the "Mr. Glass" of basketball.

Moreover, I see Horf as PF of the future.

I guess that makes it hard for those of you who want to say that Smoove is a PF.

But this team can't go on with Horf as C. I mean, we will win a few but we will continue to be outrebounded by bigger stronger Centers.

I'm hoping that BK can make a deal and bring in Dalembert without giving up a core player!!

For us, having Dalembert at C and Horf at PF would be a sweet fix.

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I'm sorry but you are getting a little too crazy with these trade topics. H-LL NO!!! We are not trading this kid. Out of all our draft picks this guy has come in and showed us the most in such a short time. This is a crazy thread.

[killa3312]

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Glad to see you come around a little to Horford, seeing how you didn't believe before the season started, that he could average close to a double-double playing center.

Part of the reason why Horford isn't scoring even more, is because he isn't having plays called for him in the offense. He also needs to refine some of his post moves as well.

Horford has come in, and done exactly what he needed to do for this team. He's the most fundamentally sound player on the team. I'm higher on him now, than I was before the season started.

As far as Dalembett goes, who is he really stopping on the defensive end? He's definitely a good shot blocker, but is he really slowing down anybody in the paint, if he doesn't block a shot? And how good is his offense? He scores, but is it because of a decent post game, or is it because he plays with a good passing PG ( Miller ) and a good passing 2-guard ( Iggy ).

I need to check to see how many of his points come via assists. For the price, Dalembert is definitely overpaid. Horford would have to develop into a Boozer-like PF, if we acquired Dalembert.

My point at the beginning of the season is that Horf will probably not be as good as Yi longterm. I still see it that way. For us, I think he will be very useful. However, as Yi matures, his offensive ability will take off. 7 foot with all those skills are scary.

As far Dalembert, I think he will be a great addition to our team defense. So many times Hawks fans look for individual stoppers. I don't think that's needed. Right now, our team defense is pretty good, but we need better rebounding. That's where Dally will be instrumental to us. IF we limit second chance points, I think we beat most of the teams we play.

For instance...

Milwauke : 18 Offensive rebounds. Out rebounded us 52-40 Loss.

Washington 16 Offensive rebounds. Out rebounded us 50-47. Loss.

Cleveland: 12 Offensive rebounds. Outrebounded us 41-34. Loss.

Indy 14 Offensive rebounds. Outrebounded us 49 - 35. Loss.

Chicago 14 Offensive rebounds. We outrebounded them 54-40. Win.

Point is... Yes, there are some games that can't be explained with rebounding, but rebounding is important .... Point is our opponents are getting about 12.4 ORebs per game. We got to get that down to a respectable number... Something closer to 9.

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You're not taking into account, however, that Horford is playing out of position and still putting up respectable numbers. It also isn't a certainty that Yi is 19. If he's truly 22 like many speculate, his upside diminishes drastically. I don't like Yi's game and don't think it's conducive to winning. While he has a sweet face up game, he has absolutely no post game at all and it's not a slam dunk he develops one.

Give Horford a center like Bogut where he can move over and play his natural PF position and he'd take off, IMO.

[Diesel]

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I've been checking the trade boards and Horf has value everywhere.... Except with Hawks fans. Sure, we think he's good but he's not a must keep in the starting lineup nor has he earned the label (with all Hawksqauwkers) as untradable.

Really, since December, his value amoung Squawkers has decreased... For at one point, he was the best prospect on the team. Now, he's just another guy. What has happened?

Do you believe that Horf is playing more tentatively after what Happened with TJ Ford??

I think somebody out to sit down with Horf and explain to him that Ford is the "Mr. Glass" of basketball.

Moreover, I see Horf as PF of the future.

I guess that makes it hard for those of you who want to say that Smoove is a PF.

But this team can't go on with Horf as C. I mean, we will win a few but we will continue to be outrebounded by bigger stronger Centers.

I'm hoping that BK can make a deal and bring in Dalembert without giving up a core player!!

For us, having Dalembert at C and Horf at PF would be a sweet fix.

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I'm sorry but you are getting a little too crazy with these trade topics. H-LL NO!!! We are not trading this kid. Out of all our draft picks this guy has come in and showed us the most in such a short time. This is a crazy thread.

Have you been reading this thread? Nobody has said 1 word about trading Horf???

[Diesel]

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Glad to see you come around a little to Horford, seeing how you didn't believe before the season started, that he could average close to a double-double playing center.

Part of the reason why Horford isn't scoring even more, is because he isn't having plays called for him in the offense. He also needs to refine some of his post moves as well.

Horford has come in, and done exactly what he needed to do for this team. He's the most fundamentally sound player on the team. I'm higher on him now, than I was before the season started.

As far as Dalembett goes, who is he really stopping on the defensive end? He's definitely a good shot blocker, but is he really slowing down anybody in the paint, if he doesn't block a shot? And how good is his offense? He scores, but is it because of a decent post game, or is it because he plays with a good passing PG ( Miller ) and a good passing 2-guard ( Iggy ).

I need to check to see how many of his points come via assists. For the price, Dalembert is definitely overpaid. Horford would have to develop into a Boozer-like PF, if we acquired Dalembert.

My point at the beginning of the season is that Horf will probably not be as good as Yi longterm. I still see it that way. For us, I think he will be very useful. However, as Yi matures, his offensive ability will take off. 7 foot with all those skills are scary.

As far Dalembert, I think he will be a great addition to our team defense. So many times Hawks fans look for individual stoppers. I don't think that's needed. Right now, our team defense is pretty good, but we need better rebounding. That's where Dally will be instrumental to us. IF we limit second chance points, I think we beat most of the teams we play.

For instance...

Milwauke : 18 Offensive rebounds. Out rebounded us 52-40 Loss.

Washington 16 Offensive rebounds. Out rebounded us 50-47. Loss.

Cleveland: 12 Offensive rebounds. Outrebounded us 41-34. Loss.

Indy 14 Offensive rebounds. Outrebounded us 49 - 35. Loss.

Chicago 14 Offensive rebounds. We outrebounded them 54-40. Win.

Point is... Yes, there are some games that can't be explained with rebounding, but rebounding is important .... Point is our opponents are getting about 12.4 ORebs per game. We got to get that down to a respectable number... Something closer to 9.

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You're not taking into account, however, that Horford is playing out of position and still putting up respectable numbers. It also isn't a certainty that Yi is 19. If he's truly 22 like many speculate, his upside diminishes drastically. I don't like Yi's game and don't think it's conducive to winning. While he has a sweet face up game, he has absolutely no post game at all and it's not a slam dunk he develops one.

Give Horford a center like Bogut where he can move over and play his natural PF position and he'd take off, IMO.

I don't disagree about Horf playing with a Center. I'm just saying, you can see greater offensive skills with Yi...

[atlien]

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My point at the beginning of the season is that Horf will probably not be as good as Yi longterm. I still see it that way.

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Horford is our most valuable Hawk now (up there with Smoove), and he is going to own Yi for years to come.

[Diesel]

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My point at the beginning of the season is that Horf will probably not be as good as Yi longterm. I still see it that way.

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Horford is our most valuable Hawk now (up there with Smoove), and he is going to own Yi for years to come.

I would like to believe that. I really would. But We don't run plays for Horf... How is he going to become some offensive match for Yi who is already somewhat polished. You're talking about a 7 footer who can run a fast break, hit a three pointer, run a give and go, and has a good face up game with a jab step. If he were from the projects, he'd be the next KG.

[gsuteke]

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I've been checking the trade boards and Horf has value everywhere.... Except with Hawks fans. Sure, we think he's good but he's not a must keep in the starting lineup nor has he earned the label (with all Hawksqauwkers) as untradable.

Really, since December, his value amoung Squawkers has decreased... For at one point, he was the best prospect on the team. Now, he's just another guy. What has happened?

Do you believe that Horf is playing more tentatively after what Happened with TJ Ford??

I think somebody out to sit down with Horf and explain to him that Ford is the "Mr. Glass" of basketball.

Moreover, I see Horf as PF of the future.

I guess that makes it hard for those of you who want to say that Smoove is a PF.

But this team can't go on with Horf as C. I mean, we will win a few but we will continue to be outrebounded by bigger stronger Centers.

I'm hoping that BK can make a deal and bring in Dalembert without giving up a core player!!

For us, having Dalembert at C and Horf at PF would be a sweet fix.

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I'm sorry but you are getting a little too crazy with these trade topics. H-LL NO!!! We are not trading this kid. Out of all our draft picks this guy has come in and showed us the most in such a short time. This is a crazy thread.

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It's a message board. We throw around ideas.

No biggie.

[cordele]

what dose it matter what yi scores. he can't guard centers.

he can't root out centers in the paint. i also want us to find a center that helps his team win. daly does not help phily win. gasol dose not stop the losing and they got darko there to. kaman is a lot better then them but needs brand to make them winners. good 7 foot players win games like duncan.bad ones still cap space waiting for them to change your team around with that great length. al change the way we play as a rookie and we don't need to bench him to have a cap eating sorry 7 footer to say we got good lenth.

[Diesel]

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what dose it matter what yi scores. he can't guard centers.

he can't root out centers in the paint. i also want us to find a center that helps his team win. daly does not help phily win. gasol dose not stop the losing and they got darko there to. kaman is a lot better then them but needs brand to make them winners. good 7 foot players win games like duncan.bad ones still cap space waiting for them to change your team around with that great length. al change the way we play as a rookie and we don't need to bench him to have a cap eating sorry 7 footer to say we got good lenth.

In the process, you make a great excuse for us not trading Horf and filler for Dirk...