Marvin Williams has turned the corner...

[Diesel]

Marvin Williams have finally turned the corner. He's got a respected Grob like Mid-court game. He can get you about 17 per.. with good shooting.

He's really turned the corner!

It's Ironic however, that when Marvin turns the corner...

Chris Paul is the probable MVP of the league... His team is in 1st place... and he gets the credit for it!!!

Good Pick BK!

[Guest Walter]

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Good Pick BK!

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It's not just that his picks weren't good (they were the worst of the 3 possible considered and cost us 2 out of 3 R.O.Y.), that he picks the laughably worst possible coaching candidates as a personal firewall, his FAcy exploits with cap space are often attrocious, his professionalism is negligible (treatment of fans and press, promise to SW without any tryouts). It's that his GMing philosophy is damning to mediocrity no matter how much lotto capitol we luck up on.

You can't win in this league without positions and particularly skills and there isn't a GM in the league that overlooks skill-sets more than BK. That's why into year 5 we're STILL looking for a true Pg, a perimeter shooter, a post option, and a defensive center.

W

[Vafan]

I don't hear you ever bashing Shell head. Shelly when compared to Brandon Roy is a bigger bust than MW is to Chris Paul. You should take your anger out on BK. What is the point of bashing Marvin? Marvin didn't pick himself. Marvin may never become a superstar. Heck, he scores 17ppg being the third option. If he is the first or second option on this team, he could easily score 20+ppg this year.

[Guest Walter]

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I don't hear you ever bashing Shell head.

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The day Diesel admits just how wrong he was/is is the day that that BK admits he made a mistake. Cold day in hell.

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Shelly when compared to Brandon Roy is a bigger bust than MW is to Chris Paul.

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True.

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You should take your anger out on BK.

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As should we all.

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What is the point of bashing Marvin? Marvin didn't pick himself.

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MW didn't pick himself, but he hasn't put in the work effort. He came into the first tryout out of shape, worked primarily on "core strengthening" the next off-season, and had to have an assistant coach get onto him to get him to work on his game this offseason. All the while spending his summers at school. A nobel endeavor indeed but one that UNDOUBTEDLY takes away from his basketball development. He came out of school so early, a non-starter, and if he didn't think that needed remedial studies basketball and to devote all his extra time to developing his game he was sorely mistaken.

I'm certainly FAR more upset with Billy Knight. He's the knuckle-head here. But MW doesn't help himself by not devoting himself to the game of basketball when he took it upon himself to remedially educate himself due to his early entry.

W

[Diesel]

Did I bash Marvin??

I gave Marvin credit for turning the corner....

I think you need to re-evaluate what I said.

[thesheedera]

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MW didn't pick himself, but he hasn't put in the work effort.

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False

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He came into the first tryout out of shape,

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A single, one time offense, that many draftees commit, and is understandable when it's a teenager college kid trying to balance school, staying in shape, and traveling the country interviewing for jobs and working out.

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worked primarily on "core strengthening" the next off-season,

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And what's wrong with a player working on "core strength"? It was an area he needed to focus on to play the game with men instead of boys. Core strength is fundamental in basketball, especially for bigger guys.

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and had to have an assistant coach get onto him to get him to work on his game this offseason.

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Another lie. He was working out and playing basketball daily until at some point in the summer (could have been any day, we have no idea if it was June 1 or August 15th) he spoke with an assistant coach (we don't know who called who) and after that call he started focusing more on "basketball related things". Well, he was already working out and playing basketball, but it seems that after the call he started to hone in on specifics. What's the beef here unless you know more than the author of that article?

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All the while spending his summers at school. A nobel endeavor indeed but one that UNDOUBTEDLY takes away from his basketball development.

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A) Childress never got any crap for this and B) that "school" happens to be where players like Michael Jordan, Rick Fox, Jerry Stackhouse, Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter, etc. etc. etc. have all spent offseasons to work on their games...to me that can "UNDOUBTEDLY" improve your game. Chapel Hill in the summer is a gathering place for not just current and former UNC players, but players from many ACC schools and beyond show up to stay on their games. They flock to where other guys are looking for the same thing. They flock to Chapel Hill.

[Diesel]

You are 100% correct Walt.

I will not call BK on picking Shelden over Roy for these reasons.

1. Roy Snubbed us twice for a workout.

I wouldn't want a repeat of Steve Francis being picked by Vancouver.. Remember that?

2. Roy has an injury History.

3. Roy duplicates what we already had in JJ. Neither can play PG effectively.

Now..

The comparison that VaFan wrongly brings up... Picking Marvin vs. Picking Shelden.

1. We picked Marvin while their were 5 other Sfs under contract (Al Harrington, Boris Diaw, JSmoove, JChillz, & Donta Smith)

2. We picked Marvin when our need was definitely PG and C.

About Shelden.

1. We picked Shelden when we had 1 other PF and his contract had just run out.

2. We picked Shelden because we had a need for an interior defensive player.

3. Shelden finish 3rd for college player of the year. He was two time defensive player of the year. He had been on the All American 1st team 2 times.

Facts:

Marvin had played Terrible for 2 years, yet he got to log in an average of 30 mpg regardless of how badly he played or how well Chillz, Smoove, or Al played.

Shelden was placed in the doghouse of death despite: Averaging a double double for the second half of last last. Starting out as a double double player in the first quarter of last season... And playing fairly well in Summer League and playing most of last season injured..

What's Shelden averaging now 5 mpg??

[Vafan]

What? You took a backhand shot at MW by saying Chris Paul is the MVP while Marvin is averaging 17 ppg by being a jump shooter.

[Vafan]

I completely agreed with Shee on this. Marvin has improved every year he is in the league. Saying that he hasn't work on his game is a complete lie. His numbers has improved every year. Like I said earlier. Scoring 17ppg while being the third option nothing to sneeze at. If he was the first or second option, 20ppg is not out of the question.

[FrankWhite]

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

No matter how many times you post the same thing ad nauseum it will not change the fact that Marvin Williams is a Hawk and Chris Paul is a Hornet. It will also not diminish Marvin Williams' skills as a basketball player.

I don't get it.

[Blunt91]

Marvin could be a pretty good player if he put in work in the offseason. No one is saying he shouldn't get his education but I hope this next offseason he decides NOT to go to summer school and work on his 3point shooting and low post game.

[TexasPete]

Anyone who questions Marvin's work ethic at this point is clueless. Does he have holes and things to continue to work on? Yes. But he has CLEARLY surpassed Childress. Childress looks tapped out on the upside.

Marvin will likely get better next year. He has shown improvement every year and at age 21 he is far from finished developing.

This same stupid conversation is raised by the same knucklehead day after day. It's old, tired, wore out. Marvin has had the best road trip of any Hawk and looked like the only one who came to play last night. I suspect he's improving as we speak because the last 8 games he is averaging 20ppg.

D-Bag needs to STFU...come up with a new topic. Show a little brains for a change.

[gsuteke]

I don't think Diesel is the one people should be directing their anger towards.

Just my opinion.

[AnakinJoe]

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You are 100% correct Walt.

I will not call BK on picking Shelden over Roy for these reasons.

1. Roy Snubbed us twice for a workout.

I wouldn't want a repeat of Steve Francis being picked by Vancouver.. Remember that?

2. Roy has an injury History.

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I didn't know that Roy snubbed us for a workout. But here's the only issue I have with your post (and BK's ultimate decision to draft Shelden), he didn't workout Shelden either. I was on record that we should have drafted Shelden (while posting on AJC's blog). But that was with the belief that we would work him out and ensure that he was an truly NBA-ready player. His lack of lateral quickness should have been exposed prior to the pre-summer league camp.

I have long held the belief that BK drafted Shelden (without working him out) to "scratch the back" of Arn Tellum who delivered JJ to the Hawks. BK has discussed previously how important it is to workout guys, review their medical files, interview them, etc. The fact that he didn't personally test the athleticism of a #5 pick astounds me. I'm not into revisionist history, I still can't say that I would have drafted a SG after having about 30 wing players on the squad (even if he did become the ROY). But how do you use the #5 pick without first kicking the tires?

With that said, I recall what Shelden did last season against the Pistons in the first month of his rookie season. And I think that he and Law are 2 guys who have lost all confidence because of Woody's coaching style (or lack thereof). The reason we are getting virtually zero production from those two 4-year college players who excelled in big games in big-time conferences is completely due to our piss-poor head coach.

[gsuteke]

I completely agree with the decision to not draft a player that refuses to work out for you.

However see the Bucks and Yi. They dared him to hold out and Yi folded.

[prolific25]

Yi told the Bucks that he didn't want to play for them even before they drafted him. He held a workout for multiple teams and denied the Bucks access to even see him work out. Roy faked an illness to the Hawks workout because he wanted to stay in the Northwest. I don't think there was a threat of him not reporting..it's just that he would rather stay closer to home. There was also that thing about Conley saying that he hoped the Hawks didn't pick him. He might have tanked the workout with the Hawks(he didn't look too good from what I heard) or simply told his father(his agent)to tell BK that he didn't want to play here. The funny thing is that Paul wanted to play in Atlanta or Charlotte so he could be close to home and we still didn't draft him.

[Diesel]

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What? You took a backhand shot at MW by saying Chris Paul is the MVP while Marvin is averaging 17 ppg by being a jump shooter.

There was no backhand shot at MW. I praised MW. I took that shot at BK for drafting MW over Paul.

[Diesel]

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You are 100% correct Walt.

I will not call BK on picking Shelden over Roy for these reasons.

1. Roy Snubbed us twice for a workout.

I wouldn't want a repeat of Steve Francis being picked by Vancouver.. Remember that?

2. Roy has an injury History.

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I didn't know that Roy snubbed us for a workout. But here's the only issue I have with your post (and BK's ultimate decision to draft Shelden), he didn't workout Shelden either. I was on record that we should have drafted Shelden (while posting on AJC's blog). But that was with the belief that we would work him out and ensure that he was an truly NBA-ready player. His lack of lateral quickness should have been exposed prior to the pre-summer league camp.

I have long held the belief that BK drafted Shelden (without working him out) to "scratch the back" of Arn Tellum who delivered JJ to the Hawks. BK has discussed previously how important it is to workout guys, review their medical files, interview them, etc. The fact that he didn't personally test the athleticism of a #5 pick astounds me. I'm not into revisionist history, I still can't say that I would have drafted a SG after having about 30 wing players on the squad (even if he did become the ROY). But how do you use the #5 pick without first kicking the tires?

With that said, I recall what Shelden did last season against the Pistons in the first month of his rookie season. And I think that he and Law are 2 guys who have lost all confidence because of Woody's coaching style (or lack thereof). The reason we are getting virtually zero production from those two 4-year college players who excelled in big games in big-time conferences is completely due to our piss-poor head coach.

It's a fallacy that we didn't work out Shelden.

It was stated clearly that Shelden worked out for us and a few other teams in Ok City... Alongside two other bigs.

Moreover, it has been said also that Shelden's agent arranged for us to take a look at Shelden privately when LSU played Duke in the tourney that year (IN Atlanta).

[TexasPete]

We did not work out Shelden Williams. BK saw him at the pre-draft camp in Orlando in late May and the infamous "promise" was made 2 days after Orlando. There were scrimmages and testing done of all the prospects including Shelden. But he never worked out for just the Hawks.

The "promise" was one of the worst professional moves that I have ever seen.

Who gives a shyte if Roy didn't work out for us? You draft who you want to draft. Roy would have loved ATL except for playing that slow down style of Woodheads. In fact, Woodhead probably wouldnt even be starting Roy. I'm not joking, Woody can ruin players.

[Guest Walter]

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You are 100% correct Walt.

I will not call BK on picking Shelden over Roy for these reasons.

1. Roy Snubbed us twice for a workout.

I wouldn't want a repeat of Steve Francis being picked by Vancouver.. Remember that?

2. Roy has an injury History.

3. Roy duplicates what we already had in JJ. Neither can play PG effectively.

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Roy would be the best pick BK has ever made for the Hawks. Forgot that one. Please. Roy is more Pg than anyone we've got and while he is also a 2-guard, alongside JJ we would have (say it with me now) THE BEST BACKCOURT IN BASKETBALL! UN-stoppable! Maybe I missed it but SW has an injury history and before his shoulder injury wasn't worth a d@mn either. Hmm.

Diesel, Roy won the ROOKIE OF THE YEAR and SW won the BUST OF THE DECADE awards respectively. Please get your head out of your ass.

W

W