A little Tribute to Soth

[Johann]

I believed him. He was the first to break the news of the Wolves/Suns/Hawks proposal. If Sothron's version was true, which I tend to believe, Sarver and his rookie GM froze in the headlights instead of pulling off the trade of a lifetime.

This latest trade for O'Neill looks like a desperation attempt to make up for an unimaginable blunder - declining the opportunity to unite the second best point guard of all time, with the second best power forward in history.

[FrankWhite]

Steve Nash is not the second best PG of all time.

[Johann]

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Steve Nash is not the second best PG of all time.

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Your opinion. Mine differs.

[DawsonsCreek]

Soth drop by when you can!

[FrankWhite]

Oscar Robertson.

[Johann]

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Oscar Robertson.

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Hall of Famer, no doubt. Great, great player.

I'm no expert on him.. Just saw him at the tail end of his career, when he was in Milwaukee with Kareem. He was fantastic. A great passer, but I would put him more at the 2. He was at the stage of his career then, that Nash is now.

O was one of the greatest players of all time. Better point guard than Nash? No way. Nash is spectacular at what he does. He sees everyone. Everyone on the court is ten times better than they would be without him. Even now, he can virtually always beat his man, penetrate, find anyone who is open, or pull up and drain it. I've only seen one other in his league.

Just my opinion.

[exodus]

I would say most would consider Stockton and Magic to be the best two pgs of all time.

But that is not really relevant anyway. If the Suns had the chance to trade Amare for KG they should have done it. KG brings defense and rebounding that they badly need, plus he is unselfish offensively.

[Johann]

I rank Nash above Stockton though, you are right, it's irrelevant to the mistake, assuming KG was theirs.

[Admin]

Try and find a hole in either of their games and then compare that to Nash. While Nash is an excellent PG and probably the 2nd best in the game over the last 5-7 or so years behind Kidd he definitely has a major hole in his game defensively. To me Kidd is the better PG compared to Nash even though his hole is average shooting ability.

[Guest]

I have always said that the best Point Guard was Stockton. The best player that also played pg would be Magic. Magic played more than just PG and that makes him a better player, Stockton was just amazing at the point. John Wooden said he was the only player he would pay to watch, now that tells you something.

[Admin]

I definitely agree with that assessment and yeah that's a pretty damn good compliment about Stockton. I don't know what he is up to these days but it would be a crime for him to not be teaching the game at some level. The Stockton/Malone pick n roll was perhaps the prettiest play in league history between 2 players and everybody knew it was coming and nobody could stop it.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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I have always said that the best Point Guard was Stockton. The best player that also played pg would be Magic. Magic played more than just PG and that makes him a better player, Stockton was just amazing at the point. John Wooden said he was the only player he would pay to watch, now that tells you something.

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I agree with this. There were virtually no holes in Stockton's game. He seemed to always make the correct play. And he was very good defensively. If Stockton in his prime played in today's NBA, there would be no question that he would be over Nash. Nash is great though.

[skyhawk]

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Oscar Robertson.

Hall of Famer, no doubt. Great, great player.

I'm no expert on him.. Just saw him at the tail end of his career, when he was in Milwaukee with Kareem. He was fantastic. A great passer, but I would put him more at the 2. He was at the stage of his career then, that Nash is now.

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You can't really compare players from different eras but I was fortunate to see Oscar Robertson in his prime and I'd have a hard time putting Magic ahead of him. Oscar didn't quite have Magic's vision and flair but he was close. However, he was a much better scorer, rebounder and defender. He could do everything that you'd want a player to do and, he was a great guy.

His stats from the '61-62' season:

30.8 points, 12.5 rebounds, and 11.4 assists per game-an average of a triple-double for an entire season. Not even Magic Johnson or Larry Bird could match those numbers.

Not taking anything from Magic, Stockton or Nash - he's the standard that all PGs should measured against - just one man's opinion.

[Guest]

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I definitely agree with that assessment and yeah that's a pretty damn good compliment about Stockton. I don't know what he is up to these days but it would be a crime for him to not be teaching the game at some level. The Stockton/Malone pick n roll was perhaps the prettiest play in league history between 2 players and everybody knew it was coming and nobody could stop it.

I seem to recall that Stockton was in Utah over the summer or during a training camp helping out Deron Williams 2 years ago. I don't think he would ever make a great head coach, but definitely a skills coach because he could make any pass at almost any time. He could also make a flashy pass if he needed to, something most players do more for Sportscenter than for need.

[exodus]

it should be pointed out that Nash is probably the best shooting pg ever and his defensive "weakness" is greatly exaggerated. His defense is fairly average but looks weak in relation to his offense.

[coachx]

Nash can't win when it counts.

B/c of this even Isaiah Thomas goes ahead of Nash. I hate Thomas but he was quite the wizard and has 2 rings in at least 3 NBA Finals Appearances. He was a WINNERin the playoffs...something Nash has never been. Thomas played in the hey day of the Celtics, Lakers, and Bulls. They were able to de-thrown the Celtics and Lakers and hold off Jordan and the Bulls......that says ALOT more then LOSING to Tim Duncan and the Spurs to me.

Nash is like a flashy less scoring version of Pistol Pete who is fun to watch but won't get you a championship b/c we all know defense wins you championships.

Until Nash gets at least to the NBA Finals he is just a fun to watch "entertainer".....when he wins a ring or at least gets to the Finals he can move into the the next level of PGs.

This is the year where Nash can elevate his career from HOF PG to one of the all time great PGs.

Just one man's opinion...we all have 'em.

[exodus]

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He was a WINNERin the playoffs...something Nash has never been.

That is BS. Their first year JJ had a broken face and missed time, ended up playing with a mask.

The next year they didn't have Amare and still made the WCF with Diaw playing center.

Nash isn't a bad defender he is just an average one, and their defensive issues have more to do with their lack of size and rebounding in the frontcourt.

When has Nash gotten lit up in the playoffs? He has put up monster numbers in the playoffs the last 3 seasons.

[mrhonline]

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I believed him. He was the first to break the news of the Wolves/Suns/Hawks proposal. If Sothron's version was true, which I tend to believe, Sarver and his rookie GM froze in the headlights instead of pulling off the trade of a lifetime.

This latest trade for O'Neill looks like a desperation attempt to make up for an unimaginable blunder - declining the opportunity to unite the second best point guard of all time, with the second best power forward in history.

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The O'Neal trade got me thinking about the Amare deal over the summer, too. And it makes me think the Suns were very much interested in getting KG, but froze up.

[Johann]

Requiring Nash to win a ring,to prove his greatness, kind of comes full circle back to the point of the thread - this trade looks like a stretch to me. I don't think it will happen. I had the same feeling when Denver traded for AI last year. Denver had been a hot team, but went bust.

Which end do you leave Shaq on? The defensive end?

I have been wrong before. I didn't think Riles would get anywhere with all those geezers he brought in, but he pulled it off.

[Johann]

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And it makes me think the Suns were very much interested in getting KG, but froze up.

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Oh! The angst of it!