Childress needs to hit the road

jhay610 · March 7, 2008

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Who could help the Hawks? You guys thought Bibby was going to make a difference and he hasn't. NOBODY outside of Lebron or Kobe or somebody like that can REALLY help the Hawks the they're setup right now. My point is obviously there are problems a hellva lot bigger than Childress. ALOT bigger.

Your constant banging on the Hawks is a tired act. I really don't even know why you are blowin up HS if you have so much hate. Bibby hasn't been healthy since we got him so its unfair to render judgment at this time.

This is a talented roster. The problem is management. From the top down, ASG, BK, Woody.

Diesel · March 7, 2008

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Heck, Chillz isn't even my "favorite" player on the team and I know he doesn't hurt the team. But I understand that once these agendas get started, the person's mind is made up and nothing will change that, not even reality.

BINGO...

exodus · March 7, 2008

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Bibby hasn't been healthy since we got him so its unfair to render judgment at this time.

yeah realistically we probably won't get an accurate read on Bibby until next season. I am pretty much reserving judgement on him as a player until then.

As far as the trade to me it was a good one even if Bibby doesn't work out since we didn't give up anything of value.

jhay610 · March 7, 2008

if you have any ideas about how we can get said shooters and get a defensive big while still retaining Smith and Childress i would sure like to see them.

I don't think there is a way, as this team is configured, to do that, because of BK's fetish for 6'9 tweeners.

BTW I agree with you that Chillz is a complete defensive liability. In fact, I wonder how he got out of Stanford w/o learning how to properly defend a pick and roll.

I just don't think those stats help prove your point. I think he could be a very effective niche player on a team where he can freelance around the rim and baseline. We just don't have people who can spread the floor or create easy looks, so Chillz' flaws are more obvious because he's in the same operating space as Smoove, Horf, Z, MW, etc etc.

Plainview1981 · March 7, 2008

There is NOTHING good to say about the Hawks. NOTHING. There is NOTHING good to say about a team that has been a bottom 5 team for a decade. The Hawks are what the LA Clippers were. I have a hard time believing fans were positive about that team when they were losing for so many years.

It seems that Bibby has never been healthy. He is past his prime anyway. But my post was intended to show that it will take a superstar to make the Hawks respectable as of right now. Bibby in his prime wasn't a star.

I'm going to calm down my posts because it's a waste of time. That's why I haven't posted much the last few days. But I'm going to treat this team like crap as long as they are crap.

exodus · March 7, 2008

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We just don't have people who can spread the floor or create easy looks, so Chillz' flaws are more obvious because he's in the same operating space as Smoove, Horf, Z, MW, etc etc.

Exactly

Diesel · March 7, 2008

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Certainly, one of Marvin Childress and Josh Williams needs to go. I'll give you two good reasons:

1. 22 yo - 17.6, 8.1, 3.6, 3.1

2. 22 yo - 9.6, 10.0

^^^The Hawks need to assemble complimentary pieces around those two players, since both should and likely will be here for another three seasons.

You need a defensive big man and another true shooter on the wing, skills neither Childress nor Williams offer at the moment.

Great post and thats the feeling I have too.

The problem I have with the post is this...

Why can't we have it all?

As Hawks fans, why are we so quick to throw players away??

Let's take a directive from Championship teams.

Who have San Antonio thrown away from their core group??

Here's the thing:

Al is definitely the future of the Hawks.

Smoove is definitely contending to be the face of the Hawks but he lacks BBIQ.

Why can't Chillz occupy that do everything role player off the bench??

Moreover if you want to be picky...

Al is a PF!

Smoove is a Sf!

our problem is not Chillz off the bench, Our problem is no 5 and Marvin in the Starting lineup.

AHF · March 7, 2008

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Could you explain please.

I mean, JJ has shot 45% and 47% the last two years and now that he is shooting 40% it's somebody elses fault? When I watch JJ I see a player this year that thinks he has AI dribbling ability and forces up one long range shot after another. In fact, JJ's reminds me alot of AI's years with the Sixers... Other than JJ's lack of ability to break down defenders of course.

The negative percentages don't reflect JJ's performance from year to year. They represent his performance with other players on the floor within a given year.

For example, in a year where JJ shoot 47% overall, if he shoots 44% in his 1000 minutes on the floor with Josh Smith that means that he shot -3% playing with Smith that year.

In a year where JJ shoots 38%, if he shoots 41% during his time with Josh Smith then he shot +3% that season with Smith.

What exodus is trying to point out is that all the starters are shooting below their season averages during their minutes with Childress on the floor.

He is then going from those indisputable statistics for 07-08 and making the arguable inference that the reason for this negative trend is that Childress negatively affects spacing on the floor.

Diesel · March 7, 2008

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Blatche comes off the bench and he gave you that guy as an example. There is also Matt Carroll (who many on this site have wanted), Sefolosha, Ira Newble, Quinton Ross, Al Thornton, Warrick, Bobby Simmons...I am not exactly sure why you wanted people to show you SFs coming off the bench that have across the board a negative effect on the players. And I could have continued the list but I stopped at Milwaukee when looking at teams.

Rather than continuing to dance with hypotheticals here are some actual numbers:

Matt Carroll - Felton 2.4% worse; Richardson .9% worse; Wallace 2% worse; Okafor 2.7% better

Sefolosha - Hinrich 4% better; Gordon 4.5% worse; Deng .1% better; Wallace 7% better

Ross - Mobley .3% worse; Maggette .5% better; Kaman .5% worse

Thornton - Mobley 2.1% better; Maggette .1% better; Kaman .7% better

Newble - Gibson 8.7% worse; Hughes 5% better; James 2.6% worse; Gooden 4% worse; Ilgauskas 4.7% worse

Warrick - Navarro .8% worse; Miller 1.2% worse; Gay 4.7% worse; Gasol 2% worse

Simmons - Mo Williams 2.5% worse; Redd .9% worse; Villanueva 5.7% worse; Bogut 3.7% better

Looks like Newble is the best comparison. Fittingly enough he just got waived. However he did have a big game against the Hawks the last time we played them.

Here's the problem.

Chillz plays more minutes that all of those guys. His minutes per game are closer to that of a starter than somebody coming off the bench.

Therefore, I ask again, why did you throw out those starters like Granger, Deng, Iguodala, Hinrich, (whoose minutes are similar to Chillz)??

I mean, if you want to use this +/- stat, justify only using it for bench players who play low minutes??

AHF · March 7, 2008

The most surprising comparable for me was Matt Carroll:

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Matt Carroll - Felton 2.4% worse; Richardson .9% worse; Wallace 2% worse; Okafor 2.7% better

You would figure that all Caroll would do was open things up for other players but maybe his lack of passing, inability to drive, etc. cancels a lot of that out.

exodus · March 7, 2008

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Therefore, I ask again, why did you throw out those starters like Granger, Deng, Iguodala, Hinrich, (whoose minutes are similar to Chillz)??

Fine. You can include them. Now show me wing player, starter or backup, that effects his teamates shooting the way Childress does here.

Funny that you used the fact that Childress is a backup as your excuse in the beginning of the thread but are abandoning it now.

exodus · March 7, 2008

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Thanks for the numbers.

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Childress can't create at all and kills spacing.

This is what many don't understand and simply avoid. Ex has provided statistical evidence to support what we already know. Chillz is a negative, no matter how you paint it.

IF Chillz was a starter and played primarily with the starting team, this may be a factor.

However, Chillz comes off the bench and he plays differently than our other Sf. These are the two things that Ex misses in his statistical view.

I figured i should quote this post since you so frequently forget your own arguments.

AHF · March 7, 2008