Marvin's game vs Chillz game

[Swatguy]

After reading the Marvin thread it amazes me the absense of Josh's game yesterday. A Big difference. While Marvin came on strong in the 3rd quarter and was good to see him drain the "open" jumper (for a change), Chillz was much more productive in less minutes as usual. Anyone who has a problen with Chillz game is disappointing. Which is what Marvin's usual game is (disappointing).

Compare as you will.

min fgm-a 3pm-a ftm-a +/- off def tot ast pf st to bs ba pts

Childress 26:25 6-8 1-1 9-10 +17 4 5 9 0 2 3 1 0 0 22

M.Williams 42:25 12-19 0-0 1-4 +8 2 6 8 1 2 0 0 1 1 25

[Nicholasp27]

they are good compliments

both play good defense

marvin is a good spot-up shooter for joe to pass to as well as good at getting to the line and decent rebounder when he tries

chill is good around the basket and on the baseline...picks up missed shots and airballs...moves without the ball and provides someone for people to pass to inside for an easy bucket...good rebounder

they both score in different ways

[exodus]

Those easy baskets inside that are available against the Clippers and Knicks aren't so easy to get against better teams. That is why Childress has scored in double figures only 5 times in the last 13 games. And his defense blows.

[Swatguy]

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Those easy baskets inside that are available against the Clippers and Knicks aren't so easy to get against better teams. That is why Childress has scored in double figures only 5 times in the last 13 games. And his defense blows.

Bull !! You do not get to the line as he did and does with eas baskets. You do not get easy baskets at the rim in the half court. The guy is terrific on the baseline, gets his shot up among taller/bigger players. His spin and dip moves inside may appear easy but are not.

Marvin gets spoon-fed and has to get hot to score. Josh Chilldress earns his shots with movement, know how and skillz.

Chillz got skillz.

Chillz is the better player, by far.

[exodus]

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You do not get to the line as he did and does with eas baskets.

Before the Knick game he had gotten to the line 7 times total in our previous 5 games.

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You do not get easy baskets at the rim in the half court

He scores 65% of his points from the field in the first 10 seconds of the clock ie fast breaks. He sucks in the half court. he hangs around the basket to try to get easy buckets and as a result he is always the last guy to get back on D. he doesnt' space the floor for other players at all and that is why the team shoots better when he is on the bench.

[vdunkndunk]

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You do not get to the line as he did and does with eas baskets.

Before the Knick game he had gotten to the line 7 times total in our previous 5 games.

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You do not get easy baskets at the rim in the half court

He scores 65% of his points from the field in the first 10 seconds of the clock ie fast breaks. He sucks in the half court. he hangs around the basket to try to get easy buckets and as a result he is always the last guy to get back on D. he doesnt' space the floor for other players at all and that is why the team shoots better when he is on the bench.

Scoring in the first 10 seconds of the shotclock doesn't just indicate fast breaks - it also indicates Chills' ability to score off of offensive rebounds, which he's very good at. In that sense he contributes in the halfcourt, but he's definitely not someone you can feature as a go-to guy.

[exodus]

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Scoring in the first 10 seconds of the shotclock doesn't just indicate fast breaks - it also indicates Chills' ability to score off of offensive rebounds, which he's very good at.

The problem is that you aren't supposed to crash the offensive boards every time. You have to maintaing floor balance so that the transition defense will be there. Childress doesn't do this. he is consistently the last one to get back on D and that is why we frequently get killed by early 3s in transition. He is trailing the play so his man is always open.

Childress gets almost as many offensive rebounds as defensive rebounds. That shows where his priorities are.

[jhay610]

i dont mind sacrificing a little equity in court balance if we can get some free chippies around the basket. Chillz is a good offensive rebounder, so I'm happy to have him down there to try to clean up and get some easy buckets at the cost of him getting back late on long rebounds, esp since our offense is basically standing around and seeing if Joe can create a shot for himself or somebody. If Joe is not hitting shots, we are not scoring points, so any easy buckets around the rim are big for us.

The problem is when there is a TO or long rebound he doesn't sprint back on defense. He kind of jogs to about half court to see if there is a quick miss or TO by the transitioning team, hoping for a quick outlet back to him for an open dunk (Snowbirding). That allows the other team to press their advantage longer, and eventually the open shooter is found or penetration more quickly breaks down the defense for a layup.

He is also the most horrific defender in the half court on this team outside of Mike Bibby. He is horrible at playing screens and shows a basic disinterest/dislike for anything on that end of the floor.

Marvin has terrible footwork but he is an adequate defender because he hustles and he uses his length to deter shots. He doesnt block many shots but he definitely alters them and makes an easy shot tougher. Offensively he can't create his own shot (which Chillz can in the post), can't finish at the rim (which chillz can) and is basically a midrange shooter.

They bring very different elements to the floor but both contribute (and detract) in certain areas.

Marvin gets the spotlight because he was a number 2 and because of who was taken behind him but it really isnt his fault that management cant evaluate talent. Chillz was also a high draft pick and there were considerably more talented players available in his slot as well, but for some reason he gets a pass while Marv gets raked through the coals...

[exodus]

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Chillz is a good offensive rebounder, so I'm happy to have him down there to try to clean up and get some easy buckets at the cost of him getting back late on long rebounds,

esp since our offense is basically standing around and seeing if Joe can create a shot for himself or somebody

.

A big reason for that is the lack of outside shooting to space the floor. Childress' total lack of a perimeter game hurts the spacing. I would rather see Smith in there looking for rebounds rather than Childress. He is stronger and can take contact better. However he hangs around the perimeter at least in part I believe because Childress and Horford are inside already. it is too crowded in there.

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He is also the most horrific defender in the half court on this team outside of Mike Bibby. He is horrible at playing screens and shows a basic disinterest/dislike for anything on that end of the floor.

Including defensive rebounding. Since we don't have a dominant scorer we will have to be a defense first team. That means pruning away guys who can't play D like Childress and Zaza.

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Chillz was also a high draft pick and there were considerably more talented players available in his slot as well, but for some reason he gets a pass while Marv gets raked through the coals...

very true

[jhay610]

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A big reason for that is the lack of outside shooting to space the floor.

Yes, but a bigger reason is the fact that Woody has made the tactical decision to not run any type of offense to get guys moving without the ball. Ever. So we end up standing around watching Joe. While outside shooting helps spread the D, it isn't hard to guard a spot up shooter that is standing in place.

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Childress' total lack of a perimeter game hurts the spacing. I would rather see Smith in there looking for rebounds rather than Childress.

True, but J. Smoove can't play the whole game. I like to see Marvin play with Chillz because he can make teams pay for collapsing on Joe and when he misses, we have weakside rebounding there in Childress.

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However he (Smith) hangs around the perimeter at least in part I believe because Childress and Horford are inside already. it is too crowded in there.

I agree. See above. Chillz, Smoove, and Horford all operate effectively in the same areas. If they are all in the game at the same time, it is too crowded. That's when we get Smith pulling the contested 20 ft jumpers and Hawksquawkers blowing up the message boards.

[Diesel]

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Those easy baskets inside that are available against the Clippers and Knicks aren't so easy to get against better teams. That is why Childress has scored in double figures only 5 times in the last 13 games. And his defense blows.

Bull !! You do not get to the line as he did and does with eas baskets. You do not get easy baskets at the rim in the half court. The guy is terrific on the baseline, gets his shot up among taller/bigger players. His spin and dip moves inside may appear easy but are not.

Marvin gets spoon-fed and has to get hot to score. Josh Chilldress earns his shots with movement, know how and skillz.

Chillz got skillz.

Chillz is the better player, by far.

The whole 4th Qtr, the NY broadcast team was praising Chillz because he was killing them. Exodus Shows once again that he doesn't watch the games or doesn't understand basketball if he says that Chillz baskets are easy.

Hell, Most of the time, he fights for the rebound and goes for the putback. Against a team with Athletic bigs, that's impressive.

You don't ever see Marvin or Smoove down on the baseline "working".

Easy Points is when you take an uncontested Jump shot!

[exodus]

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The whole 4th Qtr, the NY broadcast team was praising Chillz because he was killing them. Exodus Shows once again that he doesn't watch the games or doesn't understand basketball if he says that Chillz baskets are easy.

It was the friggin Knicks. Their interior D might be the worst in the league.

Last game it was Kenny Smith announcing so this is the first time Frazier had seen the Hawks play all year.If he had seen Childress score 8 pts or less (as he has done 7 of the last 12 games) he probably wouldn't be so impressed.

[exodus]

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You don't ever see

Childress

down on the baseline "working"

on defense

.

corrected

[Diesel]

BS.

I've seen Smoove on the Perimeter when Chillz was not in the game. In fact, Chillz injured...

Don't blame Chillz for Smoove not going inside.

[exodus]

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BS.

I've seen Smoove on the Perimeter when Chillz was not in the game. In fact, Chillz injured...

Don't blame Chillz for Smoove not going inside.

Where is Smith supposed to go when Childress and Horford are inside and JJ gets doubled? Obviously he is going to go outside to give JJ someone to pass to.

[Nicholasp27]

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Those easy baskets inside that are available against the Clippers and Knicks aren't so easy to get against better teams. That is why Childress has scored in double figures only 5 times in the last 13 games. And his defense blows.

u are looking at small sample size and trying to extrapolate too much

quick research would prove your assertion incorrect:

23 against charlotte (okafor)

18 against detroit

16 against philly (dalembert)

17 against denver (camby)

18 against houston (with yao)

etc etc

in fact, the recent teams he didn't score against: houston, orlando, miami, charlotte, gs, knicks, spurs, jazz...

earlier games against those teams:

houston - 18 points

miami - 11 points

charlotte - 23 points

golden state - 13 points

knicks - 22 points

spurs - 9 points

so 1 single-digit game previously against those teams...16ppg average against them

yup, it's the strength of these teams that did it!

here's a thought: maybe he slumped for a small sample size that u will now try to use to discredit him...

How about this? he only shot 4.25 times per game in those recent single-digit games

[Nicholasp27]

basically, your argument here:

evidence: scored

conclusion: he can't get easy baskets against better teams

assumption: the reason he scored so low recently was because they were against better teams that he can't score well against

your assumption is faulty because:

a) he only shot 4.25 times per game in those games

b) he averaged 16ppg against those exact same teams earlier in the year

c) small sample size

[exodus]

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u are looking at small sample size and trying to extrapolate too much

You do know what the word consistent means right? He was saying that Childress gives the same production CONSISTENTLY.

If i want to look at larger sample sizes i can point to last year when he scored only 13 ppg in 37 minutes or this year when he is scoring only 11.7 ppg in 29 minutes. both are lame.

[exodus]

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How about this? he only shot 4.25 times per game in those recent single-digit games

If you take away his runouts and box him out on the boards where are his shots going to come from?

he can't create shots on his own. That is why he never has been and never will be a good scorer.

He is a poor defender on his own though.

[Nicholasp27]

if u wanna look at consistency, do some statistical analysis of the consistency of chillz and marvin over the whole season...

what is their range? standard deviation?