tonight's game- a fan's view

[frosgrim]

For me, tonight's game is critical. Not from a team standpoint (more on this later), but from a fan's perspective. A win tonight gets me pulled back into watching the team tip off to final buzzer. Over the past few weeks I just got sick of watching the team give up easy baskets and still seeing Woodson fumbling on the sidelines.

As a fan I want to watch my favorite team, but man, the last few weeks have been brutal. The bad news that continually swarms around this team like a plague of locusts kills my enthusiasm. The idea that Woodson would have been gone if not for Jr's meddling is just sickening. The idea that we could have had Calderon for Childress in the off-season, only to be stymied once again by Jr is disheartening. Now, however, we have our point in Bibby.

It has been what, 16 games since we acquired Bibby. It seems longer, but I think that is the right number. Over those games we have seen the defense disappear. We have seen the team quit on Woodson. Then, over the past 10 days or so, we have seen JJ erupt to his old form.

Maybe JJ is healthy for the fist time this season. Maybe Bibby is finally getting to know the guys and the guys are getting to know him. Maybe it’s both of these factors coming together at the same time. What ever the case may be, I want the Hawks to win. I want to be able to root for this team and get excited about it.

Thus, tonight is critical for me as a fan. A win tonight, by 1 or 25, brings me back into the fold of watching this team. Even though I just cannot stand Woodson, I will support the team. A loss, however, just confirms that the meddling of Jr doomed this club from the beginning of the season. A loss means that the Hawks are doomed to poor play for the rest of the season. NJ is not a very good team. The Hawks are the better team, the issue is can the Hawks pull themselves together to win 4 in a row to solidify this playoff run.

Looking at tonight's game from a less passionate view, a loss means very little in the standings. NJ, Chi, and the Hawks will continue to "battle" for the 8th seed the rest of the season. It will probably come down to the last 3 or so games in the season before we know who has the final playoff spot. A win tonight, however, moves the Hawks ahead in the race, and might propel them to a strong, final run.

[Nicholasp27]

a) small sample size

b) this game is big because it's a full 1 win gain for the winning team...a loss here actually means a lot since nj is the most competition for the 8th seed...a loss to boston or orlando or toronto or clippers means less...the games against nj, chicago, philly, washington are the ones that matter most, in that order

[Swatguy]

Woodson is not the problem. Clearly if the players step up, we win. Following the instructions prepared by the coaches are vital. These players are still immature. JSmith gets the rebound and thinks he is Magic. Marvin stands like his feet hurt and forgets he is actually on the court. Zaza has to be reminded that he is the biggest guy on the court.

These guys are not yet good enough to ever coast. They have to play with their minds and bodies 100% every possession, every defense. It is what Woodson has said, it is what Bibby says. JJ has stepped up which is paramount. Hawks gotta play over their heads until that level is the norm.

[Blunt91]

As long as Josh Smith & Marvin don't put the ball on the floor(in a halfcourt set) and try to drive on someone we will be fine. Smoove & Marvin should only look to drive the ball on fast breaks not in halfcourt sets.

[pimp]

Josh does a decent job driving in the half court , as long as he doesn't try to do Iverson like moves, or dribble behind his back.

[Blunt91]

Yes, that's exactly what I was talking about. As far as Marvin goes he will never be good at taking his man off the dribble, he just doesn't have that quick first step. I think he can be good at backing his man down in the post and shooting a fade away jumper. He has had a little success when doing that or just facing his man up taking a few Jab steps and shooting the jumper.

[Traceman]

in time. His first step is actually very quick and it allows him to gain an advantage on the defender. He was doing a great job of drawing fouls with his quick first step early in the season. The problem is that he doesn't always know what to do once he gains that advantage. He needs to develop his strength so that he can finish with contact more consistently and he needs to develop a go to move on the drive that he can make with regularity. The ability to finish on the drive will make his jab step/jumper that much more effective.

[jhay610]

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in time. His first step is actually very quick and it allows him to gain an advantage on the defender. He was doing a great job of drawing fouls with his quick first step early in the season. The problem is that he doesn't always know what to do once he gains that advantage. He needs to develop his strength so that he can finish with contact more consistently and he needs to develop a go to move on the drive that he can make with regularity. The ability to finish on the drive will make his jab step/jumper that much more effective.

Finishing is not just about strength. It is one part strength (absorbing contact), one part athletic ability (maintaining balance)and one part feel (i.e. knowing how to play angles, knowing how to hide the ball if you cant jump over, through someone) No matter how strong MW gets he will never have the other two skills it takes. I havent noticed MArv's body develop much since college anyway, no reason to think it will start this offseason.

[exodus]

I think he just needs to try to avoid contact when he goes inside. His first two seasons he seemed to try to initiate it and while he got to the line a few times he mostly ended up looking like an idiot. After awhile i believe the refs started catching on and he stopped getting some of his bailout calls.

This year i have noticed him pulling up for short jumpers or floaters on occassion which he never used to do. He hasn't quite mastered those shots yet but with his length and quickness getting by people i think he could be effective using these shots just like JJ does.

JJ uses them because he can't jump that well. Marvin should be using them because he is just too clumsy to take contact and have any hope of finishing.

[frosgrim]

Marvin is only 21, he can develop plenty of strength in the offseason.

I like that jump hook he has. The other thing that I would love for him to develop is that bank shot that Tim Duncan uses. Marvin would be deadly if he can set up in the high post and just knock those things down all night long.

I keep seeing what Marvin COULD do, but he just won't or doesn't have the coaching to do it. It is extremely frustrating to watch.

[exodus]

Just out of curiosity i decided to check out Philly's schedule to see if there was any chance of catching them.

Wed 19 vs Denver 7

Fri 21 @ Orlando

Sat 22 vs New Jersey

Mon 24 @ Boston

Wed 26 vs Chicago

Fri 28 vs Phoenix

Sun 30 @ Cleveland

April Opponent Time Local TV Nat TV Radio

Tue 01 @ New Jersey

Fri 04 @ Atlanta

Sat 05 vs Atlanta

Wed 09 vs Detroit

Fri 11 vs Indiana

Sat 12 @ Washington

Mon 14 vs Cleveland

Wed 16 @ Charlotte

They have some tough games coming up and we play them twice so there is an outside chance.

[frosgrim]

Four games is a lot at this time of the season. Plus, w/ the Hawks, we could just as easily go on a four-game loosing streak as we could go on a seven-game winning streak.

I would love to catch Philly as I think we match up a little better v. the Pistons than Boston.

[exodus]

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Four games is a lot at this time of the season. Plus, w/ the Hawks, we could just as easily go on a four-game loosing streak as we could go on a seven-game winning streak.

I would love to catch Philly as I think we match up a little better v. the Pistons than Boston.

The Hawks are certainly unpredictable but a win tonight puts then 2 games up on NJ and should be enough motivation to carry them the rest of the season.

We play Philly two more times and have already beaten them twice even though JJ didn't do much in either game.

I am not saying it is likely that we catch them but if we beat them both games it is certainly very possible because their schedule is tougher than ours.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

!

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For me, tonight's game is critical. Not from a team standpoint (more on this later), but from a fan's perspective. A win tonight gets me pulled back into watching the team tip off to final buzzer. Over the past few weeks I just got sick of watching the team give up easy baskets and still seeing Woodson fumbling on the sidelines.

As a fan I want to watch my favorite team, but man, the last few weeks have been brutal. The bad news that continually swarms around this team like a plague of locusts kills my enthusiasm. The idea that Woodson would have been gone if not for Jr's meddling is just sickening. The idea that we could have had Calderon for Childress in the off-season, only to be stymied once again by Jr is disheartening. Now, however, we have our point in Bibby.

It has been what, 16 games since we acquired Bibby. It seems longer, but I think that is the right number. Over those games we have seen the defense disappear. We have seen the team quit on Woodson. Then, over the past 10 days or so, we have seen JJ erupt to his old form.

Maybe JJ is healthy for the fist time this season. Maybe Bibby is finally getting to know the guys and the guys are getting to know him. Maybe it's both of these factors coming together at the same time. What ever the case may be, I want the Hawks to win. I want to be able to root for this team and get excited about it.

Thus, tonight is critical for me as a fan. A win tonight, by 1 or 25, brings me back into the fold of watching this team. Even though I just cannot stand Woodson, I will support the team. A loss, however, just confirms that the meddling of Jr doomed this club from the beginning of the season. A loss means that the Hawks are doomed to poor play for the rest of the season. NJ is not a very good team. The Hawks are the better team, the issue is can the Hawks pull themselves together to win 4 in a row to solidify this playoff run.

Looking at tonight's game from a less passionate view, a loss means very little in the standings. NJ, Chi, and the Hawks will continue to "battle" for the 8th seed the rest of the season. It will probably come down to the last 3 or so games in the season before we know who has the final playoff spot. A win tonight, however, moves the Hawks ahead in the race, and might propel them to a strong, final run.

My problem with this, is that you're just not being honest with yourself about this team. If it's anything you should've learned about this team this year, is that we're very consistent at being inconsistent. We could very easily lose tonight, and I think you know that.

In reality, winning 2 of these road games already, is a major accomplishment for this team. As bad as we've been on the road this yar, I'm shocked that a hot Wizards team didn't beat us. So I won't be shocked if this team gives it right back tonight.

Jersey is just like we are though. They're a maddening inconsistent ball team. We're in no way, shape, or form so much better than Jersey, that we can go right in and expect victory tonight. LOL . . especially seeing that we've lost 11 out of 12 against Jersey in Jersey . . with the only win being the 3 at the buzzer that "the Closer" T-Lue hit last year.

Tonight's game should not make or break how you view the Hawks for the rest of the season. We can lose tonight, and still win 5 of our next 7, and be the #8 seed. This team just doesn't play well on the road. This fan base just has to accept that.

If they win tonight, it's a big time accomplishment for this team. If they lose, mission of winning 2 of these 3 road games, is stll accomplished. Losing games we should win at home, bugs me much more, than those types of games we've lost on the road.

[jhay610]

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This year i have noticed him pulling up for short jumpers or floaters on occassion which he never used to do. He hasn't quite mastered those shots yet but with his length and quickness getting by people i think he could be effective using these shots just like JJ does.

JJ uses them because he can't jump that well. Marvin should be using them because he is just too clumsy to take contact and have any hope of finishing.

Ur right. If marvin could incorporate these into his rep he could be a bonafide scoring option. He has shown that he can get by people running at him, which a recovering defender has to do because he has proven he can hit the jumper. If he could get a little stop/pop like JJ he would be very effective. He has a nice touch around the rim when he's not barreling at the basket so I don't know why this hasn't been pointed out to him before. Oh wait, that would be what a coach is paid to do....

[Traceman]

To say that a 21 year old player with Marvin's IQ can't improve his ability to finish in traffic is ridiculous.

OF COURSE he can (and will) get stronger. He will get stronger both by lifting weights and by simply maturing from being a boy into being a man. in addition, he HAS developed since college. He is a solid 230 now and his base is pretty solid, he just needs to focus more on his upper body strength.

OF COURSE he can improve his ability to maintain his balance when finishing in the lane. Once he gets stronger, he will realize that he doesn't need to lower his head and initiate the contact, he just needs to focus on getting the ball in the hole. That will improve his balance immediately. He will also learn how to EFFECTIVELY use his body to create space rather than just running through guys.

OF COURSE he can learn to protect the ball and learn to use angles more effectively. He has already shown signs of being able to do this, he just needs to do it more consistently. I think one think that will help him is to work on consistently using his left hand when he drives left. Sometimes, he gets by guys and then he takes the shot right-handed which allows them to contest the shot. If he takes the shot with his left they won't be able to get to him without fouling. I have seen him finish with his left on several occasions so I know he can do it. He just needs to do it more.

The bottom line is that ALL of our young guys are going to get stronger. Horford and Smoove have the potential to be down right beast-like as they mature and get in the weight room and Marv has a chance to be above average in his strength as well. Even Chillz can and likely will get a lot stronger as he matures.

[prolific25]

Philly will likely catch Washington if Arenas doesn't come back soon(plus Butler is no where near 100 %). Washington is the only team left in the playoff race that has to go out West.

[jhay610]

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To say that a 21 year old player with Marvin's IQ can't improve his ability to finish in traffic is ridiculous.

I don't think it's ridiculous. A lot of players have spent their entire careers as basically the same player they were when they got in the league. Not everybody develops.

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OF COURSE he can (and will) get stronger.

Maybe he will get stronger, but guys defending the rim will be at least as strong as him. Besides, as I mentioned before, strength is not the only metric for finishing ability. Otherwise Jahidi White would be one of the league's greatest centers and Ben Wallace would average 25 a game.

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OF COURSE he can improve his ability to maintain his balance when finishing in the lane.

maybe that will improve negligibly if he gets stronger in his core and does a ton of plyometrics, but this is a skill you are born with. Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant contort their bodies the way they do because of natural talent, not because they hit the weight room that much harder than everyone else.

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Once he gets stronger, he will realize that he doesn't need to lower his head and initiate the contact, he just needs to focus on getting the ball in the hole. That will improve his balance immediately.

why does he have to get stronger to realize this? Why can't he just develop a pull-up jumper like JJ? That would be more realistic than assuming that he can get stronger than the rest of the league over the course of a couple of off-seasons. Let's keep in mind that MW's work ethic has been questioned more than a couple times in the past. He tends to enjoy his down time. And how will his realization that he should avoid contact improve his balance?

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He will also learn how to EFFECTIVELY use his body to create space rather than just running through guys.

that's a pretty big assumption. He should have learned that by now after 3 years in the league, college ball, hs, middle school, etc...

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OF COURSE he can learn to protect the ball and learn to use angles more effectively.

again, major assumptions.

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He has already shown signs of being able to do this, he just needs to do it more consistently.

He has shown more consistently an inability to finish over/around any contest of his shot going at the rim. He has heavy feet and no explosion at all. A pull-up J would be great for him.

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I think one think that will help him is to work on consistently using his left hand when he drives left. Sometimes, he gets by guys and then he takes the shot right-handed which allows them to contest the shot. If he takes the shot with his left they won't be able to get to him without fouling.

I agree.

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Even Chillz can and likely will get a lot stronger as he matures.

That's funny have you ever seen that guy in person?

[exodus]

Just because you put on a lot of weight and gained a lot of strength as you got older doesn't mean everyone can do it. The fact is most can't.

childress is the same guy now that he was as a rookie. I can't see any strength or weight gain at all.

Smith is a pretty realistic example of what most guys do. He weighed 221 at the combine as a rookie. he is 235 now. He will probably stay around that weight for a long time.

Marvin just doesn't take contact well and that probably will never change. He needs to stop trying to initiate contact (which he hasn't done as much this year) and look to outmaneuver guys or shoot over them. he has the length of a pf and good speed so he should be able to do it reasonably well.

[gsuteke]

Marvin won't be able to do dead lifts much during the season but if he isn't doing them now he needs to start this offseason.