Bill Simmons RIPS PHX for trading Joe Johnson

[atlien]

I've said it for awhile: trading Joe Johnson was waayyyy more detrimental to the Suns than anyone has acknowledged (sport's writers mainly). A Nash-Joe-Marion-Amare nucleus is a perennial contender. In fact, I posted this same idea over 20 times on Bill Simmons' latest chat... either he didnt see it or didnt address it b/c he had this article in the works.

In any event, PHX F'd up bad.

"2005 SUNS

Relevant Details: 62 wins, 110.4 points per game, 103.3 points allowed, .477 FG%, .393 3FG%, 2,026 3s attempted, lost in Western Finals (San Antonio, six games).

Eight-Man Rotation: Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, Joe Johnson (47.8% 3FG), Nash (43.1% 3FG), Quentin Richardson (38.9% 3FG), Leandro Barbosa (36.7% 3FG), Jimmy Jackson (45.9% 3FG), Steven Hunter.

Comments: That's the perfect S.S.O.L. team -- seven athletes and/or 3-point shooters and a Hall of Fame point guard running the show. This was the most "successful" (for lack of a better word) Suns team, falling to the future champion Spurs in a particularly tight series that could have played out differently if Joe Johnson hadn't fractured his eye socket in the previous round. You'd think they would have keep that nucleus together, right?

Unfortunately ...

Mistake No. 1: Re-read Marc Stein's post-mortem from August, 2005 to properly refresh your memory about the Joe Johnson fiasco. That's right, fiasco. Phoenix's relationship with Johnson deteriorated so badly that he directly asked Sarver not to match Atlanta's $70 million offer -- which he didn't -- leading to the devastating trade of Johnson for Boris Diaw and two future first rounders. (Note: In that aforementioned "What If's" column, I partially excused the Suns because Johnson wanted to leave, forgetting how they drove him away until a few bitter Suns fans refreshed my memory.) They had just come within two wins of the NBA Finals and built an identity; now they were dealing a 24-year-old potential All-Star, the perfect swingman for their system, a deadly shooter who could even play backup point guard for them ... and only getting back a bench player and two future picks? Maybe that deal would have made sense for some teams, but they had just come within two wins of making the Finals! And how could they botch the Johnson thing so badly that he asked to leave? (Note: I asked these same questions three summers ago.) To borrow a modern example, this would be like the 2008 Hornets coming within two games of the NBA Finals while lowballing David West for the entire year, then trading him to Charlotte this summer for Jared Dudley and two No. 1's. Would they ever do that in a million years?

Here's what kills me about the Johnson trade: With Nash, Amare, Marion and Johnson, you're set for the rest of the decade. That's it. That's your core. That's your guarantee for 57-plus wins a year and a specific style that can work. Surround them with role players and veteran buyout guys and you're contending until Nash breaks down, and even then, you can just shift the offense over to Johnson as the main creator. HOW CAN YOU GIVE THAT GUY UP???? So what if he's insulted and doesn't want to come back? He'll get over it! You're paying him $14 million a year and he gets to play with Steve Nash! Arrrrrrrrgh."

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...=simmons/080501

[SeekingJustice]

He is ripping the trade because he wants to avoid talking about how badly the Celtics played in Atlanta.

Bill Simmons is all about putting himself in a good light.

This is damage control since he can't even think about the Hawks beating them

[atlien]

Still tho... Bill Simmons is a good writer and makes a lot of good points in that article. PHX F'd up bad in so many ways, with the Johnson trade being the most damaging by far.

[FrankWhite]

Simmons praised that trade at the time and ripped Joe repeatedly for coming to Atlanta instead of playing with Nash. He even ranked Diaw above Joe in his players trade value column the next year. Here's the quote:

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38. Boris Diaw

A throw-in to the Joe Johnson trade cracks the annual Top 40 list ahead of Johnson just 12 months later. Ladies and gentleman, Mr. Billy Knight!

Now he watches Joe torch his team for 20 4th quarter points and suddenly he's "reminded" that Phoenix dicked Joe around and lowballed him until he manned up and said I don't want to be here, let me go. Convenient.

[atlien]

Quote:

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Simmons praised that trade at the time and ripped Joe repeatedly for coming to Atlanta instead of playing with Nash. He even ranked Diaw above Joe in his players trade value column the next year. Here's the quote:

Quote:

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38. Boris Diaw

A throw-in to the Joe Johnson trade cracks the annual Top 40 list ahead of Johnson just 12 months later. Ladies and gentleman, Mr. Billy Knight!

Now he watches Joe torch his team for 20 4th quarter points and suddenly he's "reminded" that Phoenix dicked Joe around and lowballed him until he manned up and said I don't want to be here, let me go. Convenient.

HAHA! I had forgotten about that one. Gooooood callll.

I think a lot of people caught on to just how good Joe is in that game. We know it... but unless you see him like we do, its hard to know.

[Murat]

Quote:

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Quote:

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Simmons praised that trade at the time and ripped Joe repeatedly for coming to Atlanta instead of playing with Nash. He even ranked Diaw above Joe in his players trade value column the next year. Here's the quote:

Quote:

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38. Boris Diaw

A throw-in to the Joe Johnson trade cracks the annual Top 40 list ahead of Johnson just 12 months later. Ladies and gentleman, Mr. Billy Knight!

Now he watches Joe torch his team for 20 4th quarter points and suddenly he's "reminded" that Phoenix dicked Joe around and lowballed him until he manned up and said I don't want to be here, let me go. Convenient.

HAHA! I had forgotten about that one. Gooooood callll.

I think a lot of people caught on to just how good Joe is in that game. We know it... but unless you see him like we do, its hard to know.

That's why i don't read espn articles from their "experts" wannabes.

[Admin]

I like Bill Simmons and find him to be very entertaining, but the amount of revisionist history that they do is hilarious. In the day and age of the internet and archiving you really have to remember what you have said before you come out and make yourself look like an ass like he has done here.

[Dejay]

Quote:

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Simmons praised that trade at the time and ripped Joe repeatedly for coming to Atlanta instead of playing with Nash. He even ranked Diaw above Joe in his players trade value column the next year. Here's the quote:

Quote:

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38. Boris Diaw

A throw-in to the Joe Johnson trade cracks the annual Top 40 list ahead of Johnson just 12 months later. Ladies and gentleman, Mr. Billy Knight!

Now he watches Joe torch his team for 20 4th quarter points and suddenly he's "reminded" that Phoenix dicked Joe around and lowballed him until he manned up and said I don't want to be here, let me go. Convenient.

Damn, you beat me to it. He's pissed on the Hawks from day one of the trade and now that JJ's lighting his Celts up like a Christmas tree, he's trying to save face?! No sir, you don't get off that easily.....

[exodus]

Quote:

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Quote:

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Simmons praised that trade at the time and ripped Joe repeatedly for coming to Atlanta instead of playing with Nash. He even ranked Diaw above Joe in his players trade value column the next year. Here's the quote:

Quote:

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38. Boris Diaw

A throw-in to the Joe Johnson trade cracks the annual Top 40 list ahead of Johnson just 12 months later. Ladies and gentleman, Mr. Billy Knight!

Now he watches Joe torch his team for 20 4th quarter points and suddenly he's "reminded" that Phoenix dicked Joe around and lowballed him until he manned up and said I don't want to be here, let me go. Convenient.

HAHA! I had forgotten about that one. Gooooood callll.

I think a lot of people caught on to just how good Joe is in that game. We know it... but unless you see him like we do, its hard to know.

Judging from the posts i have seen this year a lot of people here didn't know it either.

[Johnnybravo4]

Read the Mark Stein article he references and you will see that we brought JJ in to be a point guard and that JJ was cool with the idea. It also explains why we drafted Marvin instead of CP.

[AHF]

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Read the Mark Stein article he references and you will see that we brought JJ in to be a point guard and that JJ was cool with the idea. It also explains why we drafted Marvin instead of CP.

I don't really buy that when we invested all of about 2 weeks into that experiment.

[Johnnybravo4]

I think that BK panicked I think we were supposed to have a lineup of

JJ

Chills

Smoove

Al

Zaza

And we ran that lineup once.

[Lascar78]

I think BK was onboard with that and Woody gave up on it one week in. I think if it was up to BK we would have tried longer.

[AHF]

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I think BK was onboard with that and Woody gave up on it one week in. I think if it was up to BK we would have tried longer.

I think there is no way in the world BK wanted CP over MW and chose MW because he wanted to make JJ our PG. Remember, he went after Ray Allen and others before JJ so he couldn't have been that sold. Also, he could have drafted CP and then put JJ at SG (crazy thought but possible).

BK was onboard with that because he wanted MW above all and JJ had a versatile skill set that made it an experiment worth trying. If we went back in time, I would definitely want to try that experiment if we got JJ again because it makes Chills, Smoove, Marvin and Al Harrington fit much more easily with JJ.

That said, if we really passed on a player we prefered in the draft (CP) for Marvin because of a plan to trade for JJ and install him at PG then BK should have been fire long ago because the odds of all that working out are very low. Face it...We took MW because BK thought he was the best talent in the draft. We got JJ because he was the best FA available and fit our plan for young, long, versatile players. We then tried JJ at PG to make things work and bailed on it very quickly because we were never that invested in making that work.

[Lascar78]

I'm not saying he wanted CP and chose MW in order to get JJ at PG. But I do think that in selling the MW pick to himself and to others he convinced himself that it was ok to pass on a PG anyhow because he could get a guy like JJ to play PG.

[AHF]

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I'm not saying he wanted CP and chose MW in order to get JJ at PG. But I do think that in selling the MW pick to himself and to others he convinced himself that it was ok to pass on a PG anyhow because he could get a guy like JJ to play PG.

That is a heck of an assumption given the number of RFAs that teams actually let go - especially before FA opens and before Atlanta can even talk with JJ.