Keeping Smoove-in re: to Diesel

[Swish]

Guys...guys...I don't know what its going to take to make y'all understand this, but I've got to try. Josh Smith must be kept at all costs; even if it means losing Childress or signing him to a max deal. He is 1-2 years from being DPOY, he will be an All-Star next year, and easily the 2nd best player in his class next to Dwight Howard. If a coach can corral his shot choice; he will surpass JJ in terms of overall production. Another thought is he can be the most marketable player in the league. He's hometown, has won a dunk contest, terrorizes opposing offenses, and can jump higher than anyone in the league. He arguably outplayed KG over 7 games. Smoove is so versatile and such a time-bomb that I can't even think of a legitimate player comparison. He will be his own guy, someone that people will compare future stars to in the years to come.

Letting him go would be the biggest mistake the franchise ever made, in my mind a tie with passing on CP3. I'm not sure I could bear to watch him rape the NBA for the next ten years out of a Hawks uni. Come on guys, smell the coffee! You may not realize it, but Smoove may be the best thing next to Nique to ever happen to us.

[Diesel]

It's about Money. Not ability:

For example. Let's say we resign Smoove starting at 13.2 million (what 70 million/5 yrs looks like).

Bibs = 15.25 Million

JJ = 14.23 million

Smoove = 13.2 million

Zaza = 4 million.

Speedy = 5.75 million.

Marv = 5.63 Million

Horf = 4.06 million

Law = 2.1 Million

Solo = 0.8 Million

Total - 65.02 Million. That's over Cap and approaches Luxury tax.

Now, I don't mind that because Bibby is money in the bank next year along with Zaza and Solo.

However, the question is can we win with that?

No question, Smoove is not worth 70 million now. . and it may make sense to sign him to the contract just to keep him. However, it's the type of contract that hamstrings a team so before we enter in to it, I suggest we make some trades that will help us to get to a point that in the future, we can win and still pay the money. My focus is that I don't believe we have a team that can win.

Because even when we drop Bibby, we will have to have a team that can win because we won't have the money to go after anybody else.

[exodus]

I have seen no realistic scenario for Smith leaving the Hawks.

Philly needs outside shooting and post scoring. Smith is a horrible jump shooter and his post game is still a work in progress. I can't see them spending big money on Smith.

I also can't see another team making an offer that would be too big to match.

[frosgrim]

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I have seen no realistic scenario for Smith leaving the Hawks.

Philly needs outside shooting and post scoring. Smith is a horrible jump shooter and his post game is still a work in progress. I can't see them spending big money on Smith.

I also can't see another team making an offer that would be too big to match.

Ex, logically you are correct, but we are talking about the NBA- the league where Jon Konkack got that enormous contract. Same goes for all the other over-paid underperforming guys scattered throughout the league.

I will say that the chances of Smith leaving are very small, but I wouldn't say none. This is even more true if Woodson is retained as HC. Smith may very well just become petulant and demand the trade be made

[AnakinJoe]

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Guys...guys...I don't know what its going to take to make y'all understand this, but I've got to try. Josh Smith must be kept at all costs; even if it means losing Childress or signing him to a max deal. He is 1-2 years from being DPOY, he will be an All-Star next year, and easily the 2nd best player in his class next to Dwight Howard. If a coach can corral his shot choice; he will surpass JJ in terms of overall production. Another thought is he can be the most marketable player in the league. He's hometown, has won a dunk contest, terrorizes opposing offenses, and can jump higher than anyone in the league. He arguably outplayed KG over 7 games. Smoove is so versatile and such a time-bomb that I can't even think of a legitimate player comparison. He will be his own guy, someone that people will compare future stars to in the years to come.

Letting him go would be the biggest mistake the franchise ever made, in my mind a tie with passing on CP3. I'm not sure I could bear to watch him rape the NBA for the next ten years out of a Hawks uni. Come on guys, smell the coffee! You may not realize it, but Smoove may be the best thing next to Nique to ever happen to us.

Funny, you never mention the word "win" in this post. Who cares if he is a unique talent... is he a winner? I don't care about All Star appearances, I want a winning team. After 250 NBA games, shouldn't he know the difference between making a play and making the right play? No way he is worth "whatever it takes". Horford exudes winning. Smith doesn't. Horford played best in the most hostile environment during the playoffs, Smith excelled in the comfort of home. Instead of learning how to master one thing at a time, he's supposedly working out again with both Hakeem and Calvin Murphy. Why? So he can dribble the ball up the court like a PG and then post up like Hakeem? Where do his teammates fit in? He needs to spend time watching how many times he ran past a PG on his way to a fast break turnover. He needs to spend time exercising that thing on his shoulders. If he improves that thing up top, then all of that athleticism below his shoulders may result in a winning player. Keep him, but only at the right price.

[WorldBFree]

i agree with your point that Josh Smith is a uniquely marketable player, a great athlete who shows promise of improving into a great basketball player - overall, someone the Hawks should do their best to keep around.

BUT, i find the comparisons to Dominique interesting in that they point to one of the main problems with the standards too many Hawks fans use to judge players/teams: They overvalue the superficiality of "flash" and undervalue the foundational objective of winning.

Rather than asking how high he jumps, how much the rim shakes when he dunks, or how far the ball goes into the stands when he blocks a shot, the REAL questions to ask are:

Does he lead the team in pressure situations? Does he take over in crunch time? Does he score when it matters?

Does he make his teammates better?

Does he contribute directly to the team winning games?

It says a LOT about the Atlanta Hawks that its best player ever never played in a conference finals. to his credit, Dominique did improve his game - his jump shot in particular. and in several big games, he did step up to lead his team.

Basketball is a sport - not just an athletic display. It's about winning, not just "looking good." Basketball players should be judged on whether or not they help their teams win, not whether they create "pretty highlights."

as i prefaced, i think Josh Smith CAN be a great player. IF he continues to improve. He needs to make the commitment to improving the areas of his game - shot selection, post moves, ball-handling, decision-making - that keep him from being more than just an exciting player.

[TheTrueSiete]

Couldn't agree more...

7

[Swish]

Anakin, its all about winning. This should be presumed, no? The pinnacle of sports is a win. It would all be pointless, save for the salaries, w/o winning. I should have clarified this.

That said, if Smoove can't step up, what do you call his 25 pt + performances in games 3, 4, and his cold-blooded threes against Toronto late in the season? I don't think there is a basis for his unclutchness, to coin a term. While certainly he can improve I think that the heart is there. It seems to me he shows as much if not more heart than JJ. Horf is the unquestioned player with the most heart on the team. He's a beast. I realize Smoove underperformed at the garden, but sometimes you need to look at the litany of things he does do instead of his shot selection and occasional reckless abandon.

Just thoughts. Want to hear y'all's input.

[exodus]

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I have seen no realistic scenario for Smith leaving the Hawks.

Philly needs outside shooting and post scoring. Smith is a horrible jump shooter and his post game is still a work in progress. I can't see them spending big money on Smith.

I also can't see another team making an offer that would be too big to match.

Ex, logically you are correct, but we are talking about the NBA- the league where Jon Konkack got that enormous contract. Same goes for all the other over-paid underperforming guys scattered throughout the league.

I will say that the chances of Smith leaving are very small, but I wouldn't say none. This is even more true if Woodson is retained as HC. Smith may very well just become petulant and demand the trade be made

I didn't say there was no chance. I just don't see anyone making a big offer for Smith. That doesn't mean the hawks won't overpay him anyway.

I would hope that Sund actually talks to the players before deciding whether or not to retain Woody.

[Supporter]

It might not look like it but jj has more of a passion to win than josh smith. And until smith shows that he has decent basketball iq and not play with such a high risk factor im not buying into him being untouchable. If the right piece comes along i say trade him.

[Diesel]

I think Philly or Memphis or LAC if Brand opts out can all make a run at Smoove weather we like it or not. 70 Million though? I doubt it.

[exodus]

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I think Philly or Memphis or LAC if Brand opts out can all make a run at Smoove weather we like it or not. 70 Million though? I doubt it.

They can but why would they?

If Memphis wanted him they could have gotten him for Pau. Philly isn't a good fit and i don't think they can even offer $70 million. I would bet Brand picks up his lucrative option.

[Diesel]

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I think Philly or Memphis or LAC if Brand opts out can all make a run at Smoove weather we like it or not. 70 Million though? I doubt it.

They can but why would they?

If Memphis wanted him they could have gotten him for Pau. Philly isn't a good fit and i don't think they can even offer $70 million. I would bet Brand picks up his lucrative option.

Well, the reason why Memphis didn't trade Pau for Smoove is probably because:

1. We wasn't offering.

2. Smoove's contract was much Smaller than Pau's..> We would have tacked on 12 Million dollars in bad contracts for Pau for Smoove. It's smarter for them to just wait until this offseason and make Smoove an offer without having to take Speedy, Shelden, and Zaza!

So I wouldn't be surprised if the big suitor for Smoove is Memphis. They're uptempo, they are going to get a big from the draft and I believe that their coach prolly would love to have Smoove and Gay getting lobs from MCJ.

[exodus]

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1. We wasn't offering.

You don't know that.

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2. Smoove's contract was much Smaller than Pau's..> We would have tacked on 12 Million dollars in bad contracts for Pau for Smoove.

We had expirers. That is how we got Bibby.

[Swish]

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It might not look like it but jj has more of a passion to win than josh smith. And until smith shows that he has decent basketball iq and not play with such a high risk factor im not buying into him being untouchable. If the right piece comes along i say trade him.

What would you consider the right piece? I wouldn't trade him for anything short of the no 1 pick or Wade, or someone else of that caliber.

[i3shams]

Hi. Im new to this but i believe that we should re-sign josh smith and josh childress and sign 1 or 2 veteran guys and this team will have a chance. fire woodson and they will have an even greater chance to go far. Acery Johnson is waiting for someone to hire him and we should go after him.

[Supporter]

Hi nice to meet you, but there is such a thing called salary cap, and who is acery johnson??

[i3shams]

o my bad avery johnson. i know about salary cap im just saying if asg want this team to mature and get better they need to spend some damn money. this team needs a vteran leader who can get them through tough situations and isnt scared to speak up.

[Diesel]

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1. We wasn't offering.

You don't know that.

I'm fairly certain we wasn't entertaining a trade of Smoove. The whole front office and ownership group has been trumpeting resigning Smoove whatever it takes since offseason.

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2. Smoove's contract was much Smaller than Pau's..> We would have tacked on 12 Million dollars in bad contracts for Pau for Smoove.

We had expirers. That is how we got Bibby.

Yeah, but we would have still had to move something. I doubt that they would have taken Shelden?

Smoove was making what? 2.2 million? Shelden's 3 million would have had to be moved to make up the difference. Gasol = 13.7. We only had 9.6 million in expiring contracts. They would have had to take an existing contract.

[DJlaysitup]

Here is my opinion D...$$ numbers be damned. JS would be 6th man of the year on a good team...still developing but close. He has been thrust into a top-3 spot because BK sucked at drafting. Still. He is a fairly unique talent - not totally unique - but close.