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Sund: Stages of development


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New GM: Hawks pointed in right direction

By Mark Bradley | Thursday, June 19, 2008, 06:01 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Three weeks on the job, Rick Sund still speaks of the Hawks in the third person (“they”) as often as in the first (“we”). During a 75-minute conversation, he even refers to this as “the city of Seattle.”

Wincing, he catches himself. “City of Atlanta,” he says. “Sorry.”

No apology is required. On the contrary, the new general manager brings precisely what the Hawks have lacked — the ability to cast an outsider’s cold eye on what has been an insulated rebuilding process.

Given the events of spring, we in Seattle — sorry, Atlanta — aren’t sure what to make of the Hawks. They barely made the playoffs, but once there they played the champs-to-be better than either the Pistons or the Lakers. Does that mean the Hawks are (deep breath) further along than those proud organizations?

“No,” Sund says. “We’re not further along.”

This isn’t a criticism of Billy Knight. Indeed, Sund has only praise for his predecessor, saying, “Billy and [Mike Woodson, the coach] have done a good job the last four years. They improved their record every year … and they protected their players.”

Sund likens the Hawks to the expansion Dallas Mavericks, whom he served as director of personnel. The Mavs won 17 games in their inaugural season, then 28, then 38, then 43. The Hawks under Knight and Woodson won 13 games, then 26, then 30, then 37. There are those — this writer, for example — who believed the Hawks should have been better sooner. Sund does not.

“I’m still an outsider,” he says. “When you’re inside, you always want a quicker pace — your frustration level’s a little different. Outside looking in, the Hawks really were where they should have been. People say, ‘They should have won 45 games.’ They weren’t capable of 45 wins, in my opinion. They were in Year 4 of a rebuilding process in which the focus was youth, and with it comes inexperience.”

Then this: “A reasonable goal would have been to sneak into the playoffs in the eighth spot or the seventh, and they did. And then, probably a reasonable goal would have been to see if they could win a game. The fact they competed real well at home [against Boston] was a plus. And the fact they didn’t win on the road — there’s not a basketball person who would say that was surprising.”

Sund delineates the five stages of an NBA player’s development: 1. Peer acceptance; 2. Playing time; 3. Being paid commensurate to one’s peers, 4. Personal achievement, and 5. Wanting to win a championship. “It’s not surprising the Celtics won because they have five or six guys in Phase 5 who’d already achieved Phase 4.”

As for the Hawks, Sund believes, “We’ve got a lot of players in those various early stages, and we’ve got to massage those and manage those. … It looked to me that when the playoffs started, they dropped those phases. It looked to me that for the first time … there was a focus, and that focus is what helped them to get to a second and third win. Because the talent was the same.

“Now the trick is, as you go forward, to maintain that focus to get to your next goal, which is: We want to get back to the playoffs and improve on our record.”

With the Hawks holding no picks in next week’s draft, Sund’s immediate emphasis is on keeping free agents Josh Smith and Josh Childress. “Our intent is to sign both,” he says. “We want to try to keep this eight-man core [he includes Acie Law and Zaza Pachulia] together.”

Three weeks on the job and still living in a hotel, Sund knows his mission isn’t to uproot but to tweak and tuck. “The real ‘tell’ sign on this organization is this upcoming season,” Sund says. “The blood, sweat and tears that Billy Knight and the owners and Woodson [invested] is going to [show] this year.”

That doesn’t mean the new GM expects the Hawks to win the championship next June. “We’re not there yet,” Sund says. “But we’re pointed in the right direction.”

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I think I'm going to be ill. Already proving himself to be nothing but a kiss-up to his bosses, and can't be honest enough to admit that Billy Knight's tenure here was characterized by nothing but screw-ups. At least he's not as detached as Billy was. Correct that... the man thinks he's still in Seattle. Geez.

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I think I'm going to be ill. Already proving himself to be nothing but a kiss-up to his bosses, and can't be honest enough to admit that Billy Knight's tenure here was characterized by nothing but screw-ups. At least he's not as detached as Billy was. Correct that... the man thinks he's still in Seattle. Geez.

another management butt kissing post from sturt. What a surprise.

Funny but i have never seen you offer YOUR opinion on the Hawks, EVER. The only time i have seen you offer your opinion on anything is when you post about Stern and the refs.

I have never seen you post about any players you like or dislike. I have never seen you post about how good you think our players will become or analyze their games. I have never seen you post about what you think the Hawks should do with their roster. I have never seen you say how many games you think the Hawks will win.

I think i know why too. It is surely one or more of the following reasons:

1) You don't really have any opinions about the Hawks because you obviously DON'T WATCH THE GAMES

After all how could you have an opinion on something you know so little about?

2) You are fearful of voicing your own opinions because they might later be contradicted by management. You want to reserve the right to agree with management at all times.

I certainly understand this. KB21 has been a consistent management butt kisser. However he actually voiced his own opinions at times only to have management do the exact opposit. then he was in the uncomfortable position of staying with his opinion or abondoning it for the company line. The results were comical.

3) You are living by the old saying "It is better to stay quiet and let people think you are ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

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Woke up on the wrong side of the bed?

No. This clown just gets on my last nerve with his constant management butt kissing and his constant criticism of the people here who are actually fans of the team and watch the games, unlike him.

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Woke up on the wrong side of the bed?

No. This clown just gets on my last nerve with his constant management butt kissing and his constant criticism of the people here who are actually fans of the team and watch the games, unlike him.

Ahhh... *laughing*... exodus' chain duly yanked... my day is complete.

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Woke up on the wrong side of the bed?

No. This clown just gets on my last nerve with his constant management butt kissing and his constant criticism of the people here who are actually fans of the team and watch the games, unlike him.

Ahhh... *laughing*... exodus' chain duly yanked... my day is complete.

You are just a butt kissing coward who has no problem criticizing the opinions of others but is too spineless to offer any opinions of his own.

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Quote:


Quote:


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Woke up on the wrong side of the bed?

No. This clown just gets on my last nerve with his constant management butt kissing and his constant criticism of the people here who are actually fans of the team and watch the games, unlike him.

Ahhh... *laughing*... exodus' chain duly yanked... my day is complete.

You are just a butt kissing coward who has no problem criticizing the opinions of others but is too spineless to offer any opinions of his own.

Please, please stop. *laughing more* I'm not supposed to have this much fun at your expense this early in the day, my friend.

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Still no opinions from sturt. You haven't offered any opinions on the team in 3 years so why start now, right?

*laughing still more*... do you really believe I am so easily baited at this point, ex? You delude yourself. Again.

Yank #3.

In the immortal words of Letterman, more fun than humans should be allowed to have.

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Still no opinions from sturt. You haven't offered any opinions on the team in 3 years so why start now, right?

*laughing still more*... do you really believe I am so easily baited at this point, ex? You delude yourself. Again.

Yank #3.

In the immortal words of Letterman, more fun than humans should be allowed to have.

You aren't arguing because you can't. You know everything i have said is true.

Get used to it. You will be seeing much more of it.

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I've never seen the player development thing broken out into stages like that, but it does seem to make some sense.

Next obvious question....

Looking at our roster, who's where on the continuum???

I'd voice my opinion, but I hate to cause any disturbance to the other maniacal baiting going on about my lack of opinions... hehe.

But seriously...

There's a good argument that Johnson is somewhere between #4 and #5... his clutch shots in the playoffs may have taken him much further toward #5, but as much as he's already accomplished, I think he's still fighting a popularity curve here that really only comes by being on a team that consistently wins. So, perhaps he graduates fully to stage 5 late next season... we can only hope.

Josh Smith will get his money, and has had his share of personal achievement... but building on what Sund said, I think Josh's status is indicative that #4 is more about establishing yourself as "belonging with the elite players with whom you are similar in pay level," than it necessarily does with personal achievement. Josh actually may end up getting paid better than what his stats suggest, based largely on his age and how much more potential is perceived. So, he'll achieve #3 this summer, but again.... being on a winning team will make a huge difference for him as well in his quest for Sund's theoretical level 4.

Marvin has playing time already, and now is effectively in a contract year, so obviously he's achieved 2, anticipating 3.

Horford: also 2 anticipating 3.

Bibby is certainly @ #5 at this point in his career.

Analyzing that much, it helps solidify the contention that we truly need a #5 type player taking some minutes in the low post.

Also intriguing here, though, is Sund's view of the "Core 8."

I wouldn't say I'm "suprised," but then again, maybe I should... should ZaZa be considered a "core" player on this team? I've actually been arguing that back and forth with myself for much of the off-season... but now that Woodson is returning as head coach, I'm mostly persuaded that he should NOT be, and thus, should be VERY available if the right trade offer came along. That's because I subscribe to the view that ZaZa isn't going to flourish under Woody as he might under another coach. But perhaps, and one would like to think, that ZaZa just needs the right assistant coach working with him. (Fwiw, big names like Schrempf and Sikma are supposedly on Sund's Blackberry.)

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Still no opinions from sturt. You haven't offered any opinions on the team in 3 years so why start now, right?

*laughing still more*... do you really believe I am so easily baited at this point, ex? You delude yourself. Again.

Yank #3.

In the immortal words of Letterman, more fun than humans should be allowed to have.

You aren't arguing because you can't. You know everything i have said is true.

Get used to it. You will be seeing much more of it.

And... again.

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So what do you think of Marvin Williams? I have seen you say that he MIGHT become as good as RJ but i really have no idea what kind of player you actually think he will become.

*still laughing... still more*...

Quote:


do you really believe I am so easily baited at this point, ex? You delude yourself. Again.

What? As if you aren't fully aware that this site has an excellent search doohickee? Try search word "Marvin," username "sturt."

And oh yeah...

Quote:


Yank #6.

wink.gif

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So what do you think of Marvin Williams? I have seen you say that he MIGHT become as good as RJ but i really have no idea what kind of player you actually think he will become.

*still laughing... still more*...

Quote:


do you really believe I am so easily baited at this point, ex? You delude yourself. Again.

What? As if you aren't fully aware that this site has an excellent search doohickee? Try search word "Marvin," username "sturt."

And oh yeah...

Quote:


Yank #6.

wink.gif

I am very well versed in the search function. However any mention you have ever made of Marvin is in reference to BK picking him number 2. I have never seen you actually offer YOUR OPINION of Marvins game or what YOU THINK he will become.

Near the end of the season Marvin was showing off a useful move which he would invariably hit in the first quarter of game after game, but then use it rarely thereafter. Care to guess what it is?

Everyone else on the site would know instantly because they actually watch the games. You are probably going to have to use that search function to try and find out what it is.

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Quote:


Quote:


So what do you think of Marvin Williams? I have seen you say that he MIGHT become as good as RJ but i really have no idea what kind of player you actually think he will become.

*still laughing... still more*...

Quote:


do you really believe I am so easily baited at this point, ex? You delude yourself. Again.

What? As if you aren't fully aware that this site has an excellent search doohickee? Try search word "Marvin," username "sturt."

And oh yeah...

Quote:


Yank #6.

wink.gif

I am very well versed in the search function. However any mention you have ever made of Marvin is in reference to BK picking him number 2. I have never seen you actually offer YOUR OPINION of Marvins game or what YOU THINK he will become.

Near the end of the season Marvin was showing off a useful move which he would invariably hit in the first quarter of game after game, but then use it rarely thereafter. Care to guess what it is?

Everyone else on the site would know instantly because they actually watch the games. You are probably going to have to use that search function to try and find out what it is.

Quote:


do you really believe I am so easily baited at this point, ex? You delude yourself. Again.

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Looks like sturt has been rendered speechless, incapable of defending his ignorance. Certainly a happy day for the board.

But if The Coward dares to show up again criticizing everyone else for their opinions while spinelessly refusing to offer his own rest assured I shut him up again.

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