Sund: Stages of development

[sturt]

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Looks like sturt has been rendered speechless, incapable of defending his ignorance. Certainly a happy day for the board.

But if The Coward dares to show up again criticizing everyone else for their opinions while spinelessly refusing to offer his own rest assured I shut him up again.

[sturt]

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But if The Coward dares to show up again criticizing everyone else for their opinions while spinelessly refusing to offer his own rest assured I shut him up again.

OOOOOOH... I love this line, so I couldn't resist...

exodus.... drama king hero of the common internet schelp... of which, of course, I am the least of all schelps gathered here, so I bow myself prostrate (that's prostrate, not prostate) before you, and am duly shut up, my king and hero.

(Btw... how long is this going to go on?... I have to take my kid to the doctor at 10:45, so please don't reply too much without me... it's intriguing to watch just how many replies you feel you have to make before you give up... and yes, intriguing to see if, in fact, it is even possible for you to give up.)

[exodus]

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But if The Coward dares to show up again criticizing everyone else for their opinions while spinelessly refusing to offer his own rest assured I shut him up again.

OOOOOOH... I love this line, so I couldn't resist...

exodus.... drama king hero of the common internet schelp... of which, of course, I am the least of all schelps gathered here, so I bow myself prostrate (that's prostrate, not prostate) before you, and am duly shut up, my king and hero.

(Btw... how long is this going to go on?... I have to take my kid to the doctor at 10:45, so please don't reply too much without me... it's intriguing to watch just how many replies you feel you have to make before you give up... and yes, intriguing to see if, in fact, it is even possible for you to give up.)

Actually i intended that to be my last post. Your ignorance has been completely exposed. You don't watch the games yet you come on here pretending like you know better than everyone. You have never offered your own opinions about anything other than Stern.

[sturt]

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But if The Coward dares to show up again criticizing everyone else for their opinions while spinelessly refusing to offer his own rest assured I shut him up again.

OOOOOOH... I love this line, so I couldn't resist...

exodus.... drama king hero of the common internet schelp... of which, of course, I am the least of all schelps gathered here, so I bow myself prostrate (that's prostrate, not prostate) before you, and am duly shut up, my king and hero.

(Btw... how long is this going to go on?... I have to take my kid to the doctor at 10:45, so please don't reply too much without me... it's intriguing to watch just how many replies you feel you have to make before you give up... and yes, intriguing to see if, in fact, it is even possible for you to give up.)

Actually i intended that to be my last post. Your ignorance has been completely exposed. You don't watch the games yet you come on here pretending like you know better than everyone. You have never offered your own opinions about anything other than Stern.

Ho-Hum.

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do you really believe I am so easily baited at this point, ex? You delude yourself. Again.

(It's 10:45... would someone else please consider keeping count for me while I'm away??? Thanks in advance.)

[NJHAWK]

Most inside nba folks will say Billy Knight did a great job here from what he started with to what the roster looks like when he resigned. I dont blame Sund for stating the truth about that. I will say for sure though that this guy was hand picked by Gearon because he either has the same ideas as Gearon or will listen to and act on Gearons ideas of where the team should go.

[Traceman]

I particularly liked his analysis of the "5 Stages of an NBA Player's Development." I think his theory has some merit. If you look at the "core 8" players he identified, I don't know that ANY of them are 100% in stage 5.

Bibby would be the closest but I think that in his position, he is just as concerned with earning a new contract as he is with winning a championship. In order to get the contract I'm sure he wants, he is going to have to put up some numbers in addition to leading us to victory. He has never made an All Star game so I'm sure that is something he would still like to achieve. I would place him at about a 4.5.

JJ is STILL underappreciated and I think he wants to solidify himself as a perennial All Star. I don't KNOW that it is true but I'lll bet he is not thrilled that he was not offered an Olympic invite. He definitely wants to win though so I'll place him at 4.5 too.

After Bibby and JJ, everyone else in the "core 8" is at stage 3 or below and that is where they should be. I would like to see us acquire a couple of stage 5 vets to supplement what we have going forward.

[exodus]

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JJ is STILL underappreciated and I think he wants to solidify himself as a perennial All Star.

I think his 20 pt 4th quarter against Boston went a long way towards doing just that. Man that was fun to watch.

If he gets off to a good start next season I think he should make the All-Star team pretty easily rather than just barely getting in.

I still think he wasn't fully recovered from his injury when the season started.

[Traceman]

Going off like that on the big stage should certainly make JJ one of the favorites for an All Star berth next year. That was one INCREDIBLE performance! I think I'll watch it again this weekend!

[AHF]

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Sund delineates the five stages of an NBA player’s development: 1. Peer acceptance; 2. Playing time; 3. Being paid commensurate to one’s peers, 4. Personal achievement, and 5. Wanting to win a championship.

That is interesting but I do have a little trouble making a lot of sense out of it.

Where was Dwayne Wade when he was the Finals MVP two years ago, for example? I think he must have skipped stage 3 & 4 and jumped straight to 5 according to this chart.

Our core guys in the Joshes, Marvin and Horford (i.e., the young guys other than Acie) are all at least in stages 3-4. They all have gotten consistent playing time and are preparing for their first big contracts (stage 3) or will have gotten their first big deals by next season (moving the Joshes to stage 4 for 2008-09).

Bibby should be in Stage 5 because if he isn't by now, then when will he be? JJ is probably solidly in stage 4+ on this chart.

[exodus]

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Where was Dwayne Wade when he was the Finals MVP two years ago, for example? I think he must have skipped stage 3 & 4 and jumped straight to 5 according to this chart.

I think Paul, Deron and Roy decided to jump straight to stage 4 as well.

[Guest Walter]

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I think I'm going to be ill. Already proving himself to be nothing but a kiss-up to his bosses, and can't be honest enough to admit that Billy Knight's tenure here was characterized by nothing but screw-ups. At least he's not as detached as Billy was. Correct that... the man thinks he's still in Seattle. Geez.

Of interesting note: Paul would be at stage 5 (and may have always been), Roy, Iggy, Deron, and Deng between stages 3-4 along with JS, JC and MW would be at stage 2 and holding, and SW would be at stage 0.5 and regressing.

Sund isn't going to burn a bridge after 30 years in the business. He isn't going to discuss BKs drafting the worst possible player considered 3 years in the high lottery in a row and passing on 2 ROY and immediate All-stars. He's not going to discuss the promise to SW, perhaps the most ignorant GMing move in history. But he shouldn't have to for one to realize that for all the draft capitol, trade capitol, and cap space we've had in the last 5 years, we aren't good.

People want to argue that our #2, #3, #5, #6, #11, #17, #21 picks aren't as good as Portland's, but at one point we had $30 million in cap space where they've had none and we've traded Big Dawg, JT, Harrington, and SW in that time. Moreover, no career threatening injuries to major players (Speedy doesn't count). We've had considerably more capitol than they but I would trade our future for theirs.

I'll be happy to offer Sturt this

[Admin]

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Of interesting note: Paul would be at stage 5 (and may have always been), Roy, Iggy, Deron, and Deng between stages 3-4 along with JS, JC and MW would be at stage 2 and holding, and SW would be at stage 0.5 and regressing.

Do you honestly believe that Roy, Iggy, and Deng are a 3-4 while Josh Smith is a 2?

[sturt]

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Of interesting note: Paul would be at stage 5 (and may have always been), Roy, Iggy, Deron, and Deng between stages 3-4 along with JS, JC and MW would be at stage 2 and holding, and SW would be at stage 0.5 and regressing.

Do you honestly believe that Roy, Iggy, and Deng are a 3-4 while Josh Smith is a 2?

I believe that's what he said, Dol.

To which, I only offer back to my old friend, W...

Enough said.

Dol, you've heard of rose-colored glasses? W's are the antithesis of that... colored in all of the panorama one might see at a nursing home... grays, browns, and that yellow-green stuff that people cough up.

Unfortunate to go through life smelling just the nursing home stuff and failing to notice that there also are some roses worth a sniff that might balance out, if not overwhelm all of the less than desirable odors... but, one points their nose where they want it pointed, and that's his choice. You are who you want to be, and no one is ever going to change that... after so long and so much of this same refrain, that's just completely understood. For better or worse, just how it is.

[exodus]

Generally i think many people here (not singling out Walter) have a tendency to take Smith for granted. His weaknesses are glaring and we are so used to his athletic feats that it is easy to focus on what he can't do rather than remember what he CAN do.

Even with his weaknesses and youth he is still a very productive player.

[Admin]

I know that Walter likes to b*tch about a lot of things but it just surprised me to hear him put down Josh Smith in the same breath as Marvin, Childress, Shelden, etc. I honestly don't even think that old hotlantascrooge wouldn't put down Josh Smith in that manner.

[Admin]

It seems that many here undervalue him and of course there are the select group who refer to him in their username that severely overvalue him, but generally speaking there aren't enough people that actually see that his value is absolutely as high as some that are so highly thought of around here like Roy, Iggy, Deng, etc if not more valuable. I think a poll among all NBA fans as to which player has a higher ceiling or which player they would want the most out of that group and Josh Smith would put Smith at the top.

[exodus]

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It seems that many here undervalue him and of course there are the select group who refer to him in their username that severely overvalue him, but generally speaking

there aren't enough people that actually see that his value is absolutely as high as some that are so highly thought of around here like Roy, Iggy, Deng, etc if not more valuable.

I think a poll among all NBA fans as to which player has a higher ceiling or which player they would want the most out of that group and Josh Smith would put Smith at the top.

Smith is a different type of player so it is hard to compare him with other players. It is just the nature of his game.

However speaking hypothetically i think his actual value is greater than his perceived value because players like him are so unique. In other words Iggy and Deng are both very good players but their skills are more common than Smiths. Smith would be more difficult to replace than Deng or Iggy i believe.

Certainly his upside is pretty scary. If he ever smartens up (a very big if) he could definitely be a multiple All-Star. I don't see Iggy and Deng in that light really. I think both could be borderline All-Stars.

[DrReality]

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It seems that many here undervalue him and of course there are the select group who refer to him in their username that severely overvalue him, but generally speaking

there aren't enough people that actually see that his value is absolutely as high as some that are so highly thought of around here like Roy, Iggy, Deng, etc if not more valuable.

I think a poll among all NBA fans as to which player has a higher ceiling or which player they would want the most out of that group and Josh Smith would put Smith at the top.

Smith is a different type of player so it is hard to compare him with other players. It is just the nature of his game.

I agree and I hope that his uniqueness is recognized and made use of; IE matchups, guys around him play to this etc and I don't think that has been done. In another system with the right guys around him he could be an allstar.

However speaking hypothetically i think his actual value is greater than his perceived value because players like him are so unique. In other words Iggy and Deng are both very good players but their skills are more common than Smiths. Smith would be more difficult to replace than Deng or Iggy i believe.

Certainly his upside is pretty scary. If he ever smartens up (a very big if) he could definitely be a multiple All-Star. I don't see Iggy and Deng in that light really. I think both could be borderline All-Stars.

[Guest Walter]

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Of interesting note: Paul would be at stage 5 (and may have always been), Roy, Iggy, Deron, and Deng between stages 3-4 along with JS

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JC and MW would be at stage 2 and holding, and SW would be at stage 0.5 and regressing.

Do you honestly believe that Roy, Iggy, and Deng are a 3-4 while Josh Smith is a 2?

Where in my quote is the comma? It's bolded. There is no comma amidst "JC and MW" so that is not a series and JS is therefore not a part of them. Thus, JS is a "3-4" "ALONG WITH" Roy, Iggy, Deron, and Deng.

Read people. Seriously, this is lazy, pathetic misrepresentation.

W

[Admin]

Walter your statement can easily be taken the way that we have taken it. Perhaps if you had used a word like "while" after the "JS," then it would have made more sense. Quite often people say something like "I like x, y and z". Just as you formatted JS, JC and MW so it's perfectly understandable for people to assume that you being mr negativity would also in this case be lumping JS with JC and MW.