Who are the Hawks two best defensive players?

[bronnt]

Nice to see Mario getting some love.

I said Smoove and JJ. JJ isn't flashy but he keeps his man in front of using his lateral quickness, and length lets him affect shots, even if he doesn't really block shots.

As for Josh Smith's defense....

http://www.82games.com/0708/07ATL11D.HTM

Defensive efficiency when he's on the floor is 107.9, 114.9 when he's off. He's worth about 7 points per 100 possessions. The only Hawk who made nearly that large a difference to defensive efficiency was AJ (not counting Lorenzen Wright, who didn't play enough minutes for me to really count him).

[crimedog]

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Nice to see Mario getting some love.

I said Smoove and JJ. JJ isn't flashy but he keeps his man in front of using his lateral quickness, and length lets him affect shots, even if he doesn't really block shots.

As for Josh Smith's defense....

http://www.82games.com/0708/07ATL11D.HTM

Defensive efficiency when he's on the floor is 107.9, 114.9 when he's off. He's worth about 7 points per 100 possessions. The only Hawk who made nearly that large a difference to defensive efficiency was AJ (not counting Lorenzen Wright, who didn't play enough minutes for me to really count him).

I think JJ's defense would be a much bigger factor is we had another primary scorer on the other end. If Smith and Al can start getting the ball in the post, Joe would be able to play off of them and have some energy left. He is definitely our best fundamental perimeter defender but too often we have to waste that because we don't want to wear him down.

[jhay610]

a few things about this thread:

1) Smoove has his limitations: he gambles for steals too often, he lets smaller players get by him to go for the block, but some of you aren't giving him nearly enough credit. When a guard got penetration on our D, they were worried about Smith coming help side. Not Chillz. Not Horf. Not JJ. That means alot.

2) Horf, to me, has some nice defensive tools, and he cleans up the boards for us, but he still gets abused by the 5's on the blocks (at least in this, his rookie season). Its not really his fault because he's out of his natural position, but if you remember guys like Powe and Perkins were getting plenty of boards and putbacks over and through Horf. With real impact centers like Yao you can just forget it.

3) I agree with Fosgrim in that Acie showed in the Boston series that he can keep even the quickest (Rondo) guards in the league in front of him. That will be a big asset going forward if he shows that he can indeed be the PG of the future.

4) whomever it was that said Chillz was a better defender than Marvin should catch a few more Hawks games next year (if Chillz is still with us). Chillz was one of the worst defenders, in terms of awareness and positioning, among all Hawks. He frequently looked perplexed when faced with simple pick and rolls and was often late on simple "one pass away" rotations. He's ok on ball (unless Woody dimly deploys him against a guard like Rondo) but his help-side is TEAR-I-BAL. At least Marvin knows where to be. Further, Chillz likes to leak out for the easy snow-bird bucket. While this is good for a couple cheapies each game, sometimes it backfires because he doesnt hustle to help if he gets beaten off the dribble (instead he wanders toward half-court looking for a quick outlet) and he leaves us with a disadvantage on the glass.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Anyone who doesn't think Josh Smith is a top 2 defender on the Hawks is showing their agenda against the guy.

The guy was a DPOTY candidate for the entire league.

He's the only defender in the league I've seen that can consistently take away a fast break opportunity seeing that most NBA Players are unstoppable going to the rim in the open court.

The way he alters shots, plays passing lanes, etc. You've gotta be kidding me saying he's not top 2 on the Hawks

[EazyRoc]

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Anyone who doesn't think Josh Smith is a top 2 defender on the Hawks is showing their agenda against the guy.

The guy was a DPOTY candidate for the entire league.

He's the only defender in the league I've seen that can consistently take away a fast break opportunity seeing that most NBA Players are unstoppable going to the rim in the open court.

The way he alters shots, plays passing lanes, etc. You've gotta be kidding me saying he's not top 2 on the Hawks

That's great and all, but what about his post defense ? or his perimeter defense ?

You can't fault people for choosing our best post defender or our best perimeter defender. J. Smith isn't either one, so therefore some people might not pick him.

[HawkNJersey]

I see that some agendas are showing in here.

[Dsinner]

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Anyone who doesn't think Josh Smith is a top 2 defender on the Hawks is showing their agenda against the guy.

The guy was a DPOTY candidate for the entire league.

He's the only defender in the league I've seen that can consistently take away a fast break opportunity seeing that most NBA Players are unstoppable going to the rim in the open court.

The way he alters shots, plays passing lanes, etc. You've gotta be kidding me saying he's not top 2 on the Hawks

I couldn't agree more.

[bronnt]

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Anyone who doesn't think Josh Smith is a top 2 defender on the Hawks is showing their agenda against the guy.

The guy was a DPOTY candidate for the entire league.

He's the only defender in the league I've seen that can consistently take away a fast break opportunity seeing that most NBA Players are unstoppable going to the rim in the open court.

The way he alters shots, plays passing lanes, etc. You've gotta be kidding me saying he's not top 2 on the Hawks

I think Josh Smith is still catching flak from his first two seasons, when he was flashy but didn't have a lot of substance. He's still very flashy, so it's easy to miss that he's developed a presence as a defensive player (and has learned to score as a post player, but that's a different debate.

No, he can't stop KG or Duncan, but Josh Smith is one of the better defensive forwards in the league.

[DJlaysitup]

I saw an interesting picture at the USAToday website that was like- top 10 recent draft picks...of course Horford was at three or so. Anyway - the picture was Al getting a rebound in mild traffic right up at the rim (against Boston). The more interesting thing for me was that in the background Smoove was PERFECTLY blocking off KG 8 feet from the basket. Low body squat with his arms backed against him...once you feel contact stick your butt out into his legs and he can't jump (much)...making sure Al didn't have to worry about KG contesting the rebound. It reminded me of Bird's old blockout technique

I wonder if we don't give JSmoove enough credit sometimes.

I'll try and copy the pic onto HS.

[Dsinner]

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I wonder if we don't give JSmoove enough credit sometimes.

No need to wonder, that's a fact. I think some people give him too much credit and that tends to make others give him less than he deserves.

[HawkNJersey]

I don't think he gets enough credit. He's the only person in the league that's not a consistent 18ppg scorer, despite averaging close to 18ppg. He's the only person in league that needs to learn to shoot, learn to post, learn to play post D, learn to guard SFs, learn to handle the ball, learn to get the ball to play makers, learn to be tougher and be only a weak side defender, yet command 11mil a year.

[crimedog]

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I don't think he gets enough credit. He's the only person in the league that's not a consistent 18ppg scorer, despite averaging close to 18ppg. He's the only person in league that needs to learn to shoot, learn to post, learn to play post D, learn to guard SFs, learn to handle the ball, learn to get the ball to play makers, learn to be tougher and be only a weak side defender, yet command 11mil a year.

I don't get it.

[AHF]

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I don't think he gets enough credit. He's the only person in the league that's not a consistent 18ppg scorer, despite averaging close to 18ppg. He's the only person in league that needs to learn to shoot, learn to post, learn to play post D, learn to guard SFs, learn to handle the ball, learn to get the ball to play makers, learn to be tougher and be only a weak side defender, yet command 11mil a year.

I don't get it.

HawkNJersey is being sarcastic. I read his post as actually arguing that people are too critical of Josh Smith and that the rest of the league recognizes significant value in him -- even if some fans on here don't.

[HawkNJersey]

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I don't think he gets enough credit. He's the only person in the league that's not a consistent 18ppg scorer, despite averaging close to 18ppg. He's the only person in league that needs to learn to shoot, learn to post, learn to play post D, learn to guard SFs, learn to handle the ball, learn to get the ball to play makers, learn to be tougher and be only a weak side defender, yet command 11mil a year.

I don't get it.

I was summarizing some of the posts made by folks on this board and the complaints they have about Smoove. And despite all these complaints...he'll still command 11mil a year...

[Chris18]

Smoove and Mario are our best defenders.

In terms of team ranking I would go with

1. Smoove

2. Mario

3. Marvin

4. Joe

5. Al

6. Childress

[JackB1]

contemplating this poll makes me realize how average or below average we really are individually at D. Smoove is great at shot blocking, but a great defender doesn't let you get off a good shot in the first place. JJ is good, but is usually to tired to defend well.

Al is great against guys his own size. West is a good pesky type defender.

Law looks promising, but the rest aren't good defenders.

[Murat]

What a hell are u guys on? Joe is our best defender by far followed by Law and Marvin.