Lets look at what we have

[andycard69]

Assuming JT resigns then we arent a bad team.

SAR is a solid star player. He gives us scoring, rebounding and some passing.

JT is a solid guard. He can score on the outside and can pass pretty well even tho most people dont realize it.

Theo is a quality big man. Many call him undersized but he is a starter on 23 teams in the NBA. He is a great defender and an ok redounder and scorer.

Diaw is a rookie with promise. Most people rag on him but he is a player who can be a double digit scorer and will be a player who will make good passes and help get the ball to the right person. Reminds me of Toni K.

The rest: Hendu is a very good BU player who is way overpaid and could bring something back next year in a trade (ending contract). Nazr is a good BU that is a potential starter one day if he can stay healthy and develop a little more. CC is a nice BU when healthy. DD is a decent BU PG with the potential to be better. Hanson is a nice BU player who we can see if he can play on the NBA level.

What we need: We need a spot shooter who has decent handles to play SG. DJ would be nice if we sign him and he can develop into this player.

[Diesel]

This is the same team we had last year minus Grob/Ira for sure.

If we had a depth chart, I would say it looks like this if JT wer to sign today:

Theo/Nazr

SAR/Hendu

CC/Diaw

Hansen

JT/Dickau

This is incomplete but it's very sad. At SF, we suck. Diaw has yet to play on this level but in Europe, he was mediocre. I think Email may be better than Diaw is right now and that's sad.

Hansen has potential but he's really nothing special. Unless he comes in an becomes the man, he might be third on our SG list... If we ever get Sgs.

OUR BENCH completely sucks.. That's because 2 of our starters belong on it.

JT is still not capable of running an offense. We have heard excuse after excuse however, this one fact has hampered our team for the last 4 years.

Who do you expect to beat with this lineup.

Do you think we'll sit down and compare stat sheets with other teams and decide who will win from that...

Or will we play the games.

IF we play the games, it will be bad for us a lot of nights.

I doubt we can beat Chicago, Detroit, NJ, Orlando, NY, Indy, Miami, Milwaukee, Philly, Washington, or Boston right now.

I gice us a chance against Cleveland, New Orleans, and Toronto.

However, there is nobody in the league that I can point to and say that this team will actually beat. NOT even Denver.

[Admin]

You cannot compare stats in Europe to stats in the NBA. The games are completely different. The only stat that really translates is FG%. We know Diaw isnt a great shooter, no doubt about that but he can be an effective scorer....but thats certainly not a strength of his. He was the Euro league MVP so he definitely wasnt mediocre, he was the best player over there to win the MVP right?

Who knows if he will turn out to be a star player or not, but I think he will once he learns to play the NBA game. If the Hawks can somehow find a SG that can actually shoot and handle the ball and play some defense we will be fine. In fact, I believe that the Hawks will win more games next year than they did this previous year. Bring Dion back for the bench and Willis to fill out the frontcourt and then find a few hard working Ira type players to finish the bench off and this team could possibly win 40 games. Just losing Dog should increase the teams win total since this will certainly be more of a team.

[Lascar78]

"This is incomplete but it's very sad. At SF, we suck. Diaw has yet to play on this level but in Europe, he was mediocre. I think Email may be better than Diaw is right now and that's sad. "

I stopped reading after this because you obviously don't know what you're talking about. The fact that you think CC would start over Diaw is flat out laughable. Please tell me how being champion, MVP, and dunk contest winner all this year is playing mediocre. I'm very interested. And please don't give me stats that can't be compared to US stats because they play a different style and shorter games.

and guess what else, of course we're weak with 9 players. Of course we need a couple signings, and that's what we'll get.

[KB21]

Once again, Diesel finds a player he doesn't like and makes up crap about him.

This time, it is Boris Diaw, who he says was mediocre in Europe, but for some reason, he was the French League MVP. A league that had his teammate, Mickael Pietrus (#11 pick) and Tahirou Sani (a top prospect for the 2004 draft) as players.

Here's what the Hawks really have though:

PG - Jason Terry, Dan Dickau

Jason Terry is an emerging star point guard who is multi talented. He can score and get his teammates involved. He creates plays for himself and others. He's also a good on the ball defender. Dickau is a 2nd year player who has the potential to be a Steve Nash type of point guard.

SG - MCE, Travis Hansen

Hansen is going to be a reserve and will play multiple positions. His defense is what will keep him in the game, but his shooting has to improve. The starter will be a player the Hawks sign with the MCE. Whether that is Stephen Jackson or Jim Jackson, I don't know. Dion Glover and DerMarr Johnson are still options at this point.

SF - Boris Diaw, Randy Holcomb

As of right now, Diaw will be the starter at the small forward spot. It's his more natural position, and he will play a point forward role. Everyone knows Chris Crawford will spend most of the year on IR. It's very likely that Travis Hansen will get some time here as well. The Hawks may also look into signing a veteran at the league minimum for the reserve position. Randy Holcomb is an athlete who can defend and rebound.

PF - Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Alan Henderson

Shareef Abdur-Rahim is a star power forward who is guaranteed to get at least 20 and 9 with the potential to get more. He's also young. Alan Henderson is an overpaid back up, but he's a quality back up. He will defend and rebound when he gets in the game, and he's one of the better offensive rebounders in the league.

C - Theo Ratliff, Nazr Mohammed

Ratliff is an average rebounder but a great shot blocker and defender. Nazr is a big question mark with a pin in his foot, but when healthy, he's a decenter rebounder who can score a little, but he's a lousy defender. Alan Henderson will probably see time as the reserve center.

[Diesel]

This guy is 6'8 201 pounds. He's not that strong. He's not aggressive. He's not a good shooter. The problem will come when he play him at SG and he's matched up against Carter or McGrady or Allen or any of the regular SGs in the game and they blow past him and blow over him. He is a good defensive player in the Euro League... But [censored], Xray Hip was a championship defender in Piedmont Park... It means NOTHING.

[KB21]

You've already stated your opinion on European players, and it makes you biased. You are not willing to accept that fact that international scouting is big now, and that the European players are better than you give them credit.

So, what you say about Boris Diaw means nothing. And to compare a Euroleague player to a Piedmont Park player is foolish to say the least and shows your bias even more. Diaw actually has some basketball sense to him. He isn't all about jumping and dunking like those playground players, who will never play in the NBA because they aren't willing to adjust their game.

[cyman3]

cuz i know a guy who didnt even average 1 ppg, 1 apg, 1 rpg in college that was drafted as the #1 pick in the NBA.

yo Diesel, how did Giniboli/Nowitski/Gasol/Kukoc/etc do when they played EuroBall?

how do we know that there isnt a McGrady sittin on the Euro-version of Raptors bench? One team change and McGrady blew up and tore up the league....

suppose its the year b4 McGrady went to Orlando...

wat if McGrady went from NBA to EUROLEAGUE and nobody wanted him cuz of his stats as a RAPTOR?

potential plays a lot in this game.... theres also players that contribute A LOT more than stats.

newble is an example. if he didnt guard those other SGs, they might have gone for 40 against us every nite...

know what im sayin?

[Diesel]

Give me your top 10 from the Euro league and Let's accurately compare them to the top 10 from USA....

After you go past Dirk, there's not much huh??

Anyway, get started on that and then we can talk about the level of competition.

I believe that once you start talking about the bums that have come over that didn't make it, you will see my point...

I agree with this:

"I should have left UCLA after my freshman year, played in Croatia, grown a beard and changed my name to Vladimir Kaponovich," said UCLA's Jason Kapono,

Had he done that and played the way he played, he would have been drafted second overall.

[Traceman]

I will not go so far as to say his French League MVP meant nothing with regard to him becoming a quality NBA player but I have to say that it doesn't mean much. Holding up Mickael Pietrus as a player that he was better than really means very little, particularly when you look at the fact that Pietrus was HORRIBLE in summer league play and was looked at as one of the biggest summer league flops. Obviously, summer league doesn't mean much but the fact that both Pietrus and Diaw were below average AT BEST in summer league play doesn't exactly support the fact that Diaw's French League MVP means anything.

Diaw's play in summer league was disturbing to me when I thought he wasn't going to have to score in order to help us. Now it REALLY alarms me. We MUST resign JT or drafting Diaw could end up being a VERY bad deal for us. People were all over DJ for having a bad summer league last summer and yet he scored nearly 14 ppg and did a great job on the other team's best scorer. Diaw scored just over 5 ppg and had almost as manyy turnovers as assists. I don't think that means that Diaw WON'T be good down the raod, but if you guys are expecting him to come in and do a whole lot this year, I think you are setting yourselves up for a HUGE disappointment. If he averages even 8 ppg, 5 rbg and 4 apg, I think that will be a major accomplishment for a 19 year old at ths level.

As for CC versus Diaw, RIGHT NOW, if CC is healthy, I think he is a better player than Diaw. I guarantee you that CC would have scored more than 5 ppg in the summer league.

[KB21]

I don't know where you get this idea that Diaw was below average in summer league play. Diaw was arguably the best looking player the Hawks had on the summer league team. Everyone that saw him could tell that he had an incredible understanding of the game and had vision that was unmatched on the court.

They saw things he had to work on, as every young player has, but everyone knows this kid is going to be a player once he rounds into form.

He looks like a 21 year old Scottie Pippen. People forget that Pippen was a horrible shooter when he came into the league, but he had tremendous court sense, passing ability, and was a terrific defensive player.

[drzachary]

Diesel,

Just curious: how many of Diaw's games did you watch? I only saw a few highlights.

Let us know where you're getting your info!

Otherwise, I might have to add a sig like "0 games and I'm an expert"

[KB21]

Sorry, but international scouting encompasses more than the Euroleague.

Dirk Nowitzki - Germany

Steve Nash - Canada

Hakeem Olaguwon - Nigeria

Dikembe Mutombo - Congo

Patrick Ewing - Jamaica

Tim Duncan - Virgin Islands

Peja Stojakovic - Yugoslavia

Toni Kukoc - Croatia

Pau Gasol - Spain

Yao Ming - China

Vlade Divac - Yugoslavia

Drazen Petrovic - Yugoslavia

Tony Parker - France

Even Kobe Bryant states that he learned how to play the game the right way when he spent the summers with his father overseas, playing against International players under FIBA rules.

[cyman3]

"Even Kobe Bryant states that he learned how to play the game the right way when he spent the summers with his father overseas, playing against International players under FIBA rules."

- true!

[Diesel]

ope...

What's wrong KB...

Didn't you know that Duncan was a Wake Forest Graduate?

Didn't you know that Deke and Ewing learned to play at Georgetown?

We might as well end this discussion here for you have already conceded the point...

The level of play In Europe is in No WAY Comparable to that in the USA. NO WAY.

IF we sent Pros to the Olympics... They would be lucky to... Oh, I forgot, Dream Team 1.

[KB21]

That's funny.

The last so called "Dream Team" we sent to international play didn't take home the gold.

Things have changed since Dream Team 1. I hate to say it, but the American players don't have the understanding of the game. This is a direct result of the AAU environment and the playground environment. Coaches don't teach players the proper way. You rarely see a good set jump shot anymore. American players are too "one-on-one".

International players learn the fundamentals that current young American players lack. Now that the athleticism is catching up to the fundamentals, they are simply producing a higher number of better players.

Look at this year's draft. A record 7 international players were drafted in the first round, and a record 21 total were drafted. There were 8 international players in the 1st round if you count Ndudi Ebi, which outside of James was the only high schooler with a jump shot.

[Traceman]

impress me. He wasn't bad, he just didn't do anything to take notice of. As far as him being the best looking player on the summer league team goes, that certainly isn't saying much. Who was our leading scorer? Diaw led us in rebounds and assists with about 5 and 4 respectively. That is okay but certainly nothing to write home about. Last year, Glover was MVP of the summer league, DJ, Haslem and Dickau all had their moments and we were 6-0 for the summer. NOBODY on this year's team did much on a consistent basis and we went 3-3.

You said:

"Everyone that saw him could tell that he had an incredible understanding of the game and had vision that was unmatched on the court."

Don't you think that is carrying it a little too far? EVERYONE that saw him could tell all that? I saw him and I couldn't tell that. I could tell he can't shoot though.

Diaw does have some skills but just like DJ, it is going to take him some time to develop. I don't look for much from him this season or next to be honest.

[cyman3]

starter/role player to our team, u'll be the most surprised fan.

"I don't look for much from him this season or next to be honest."

- look, im not exactly sayin hes the next DIRK NOWITSKI.. but man- give the man a try. If u watched 1 of Iversons bad games and label him as one of the worse ballhoggin players uve seen, that would be horrble...

all i ask is that u give the man atleast 1 year to impress u... if he doesnt, okay.. it didnt work out- he could be a bust. But if think hes a good asset to our team, we can keep him...

but for now, give the man a shot

[Traceman]

a bust by any stretch. The guy is only 19. It will likely be AT LEAST 3 years before we know what kind of player he is going to be. Just like DJ, he was drafted more for what he has the potential to be than for what he is right now.

The funny thing to me is that I am one of the few who has ZERO exectations for the kid right now but if he doesn't perform right away, I won't think he's a bust. Just wait until the All Star break though. Half of the people who think he's the next Scottie Pippen right now will be calling him a bust before the season ends.

[Diesel]

The problem Cyman is that this kid hasn't played against this level of competition and you guys are already crowning him starter worthy. He might start, but he probably won't be worthy. There's nothing about him or his game that is that impressive. He was ranked below Darius Sangolia by European Scouts. I have yet to see him in Real Competition. I don't count those Summer League games as a good barometer of anything. However, when camp starts, I think the truth will be known.

As far as KB trying to suggest that the level of Play in Europe is somehow equal to that in the US, it's laughable. It shows that he has no idea.