We have closet Smith haters here!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Smith is the new Michael Vick.

Either you love him to death, regardless of how he plays . . . or he drives you crazy because he can make a superstar play and an idiotic play on back to back possessions.

I'm definitely in the latter half.

I do get mad though, when people try to trade him for guys far less talented than him. That makes no sense at all.

The Kaman talk isn't one of those instances though. I'd definitely trade Smith for Kaman. But I wouldn't do it for Dalembert or Biendrins.

As far as paying him, he deserves at least a 5/55 contract. 5/60 is the max I'd give him, personally. I won't have a fit though if he got a 5/65 or a 6/75 deal.

Anything over that, and Sund/ASG must consider alternative options.

The move the Clips made yesterday was a damn good move in my opinion. Instead of acquiring an up and coming talent that would cost them a ton of money, they sat back, evaulated their roster, and simply acquired a vet guy that could make them better defensively, while allowing the talent they currently have on the roster to pick up the slack offensively. Camby won't demand the ball, and that will allow guys like Kaman, Thorton, Mobley and Eric Gordon to help out Baron on the offensive end.

And they not only have 2 shot blockers in the middle, they also still have room to add another scorer if need be. No sense in taking a huge gamble on Smith or Okafor, when you could possibly get 2 quality players for the price of one, that will make your team even better.

I'm definitely not "all-in" when it comes to Smith. But as long as he's a Hawk, I'll continue to root for the kid, even if he drives me crazy at times.

[Guest]

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I'll be willing to bet that if this were Joe Johnson's or Al Horford's free agent year, there will be countless number of threads encouraging the ASG to sign them at all cost. There would be very few sign and trade proposals on this board period for those 2 players!

You are delirious, we aren't talking about JJ or Horford in their free agent year, it is Josh and Josh and there are certainly possibilities that could arise right now. People aren't hating, they are worried and exploring new ideas. When you look at the big picture of this offseason, it certainly could become us needing to S&T Smoove or him forcing us to. Slim as it may be right now, its still there.

[Admin]

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For you to act like you didn't see people saying they would trade Smoove for Kaman and a 1st or even Dalembert at one time is simply not being truthful.

There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between WOULD TRADE and WANTS TO TRADE. This whole thread is calling out people saying that they WANT TO TRADE Josh Smith. My argument is that there might be 1% of the posters here that actually WANT TO TRADE Josh Smith. Just because those of us that have posted or participated in the threads where trades are brought up involving Josh Smith for Kaman, Biedrins, Dalembert, etc does not mean that we WANT TO TRADE Josh Smith, it's simply that we WOULD TRADE him if we HAD TO.

PBird is a coward to me for claiming that people are haters and secretly want to trade Josh Smith while hiding out in this thread instead of actually saying who he is referring to.

[Guest]

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In fact, Smoove was considered to be a top 5 TALENT in his draft class.

That is simply not true. There was no mock draft or "best available" or whatever list that had Smoove in the top 5. Possibly top 10 but defiintely not top 5. If you have one post it but I never saw him in the top 5.

[Zone034life]

The guy had his career year without Elton Brand down low to take any rbs away and he didn't even finish the entire year and now he is comparable to Smoove? You speak of those stats as if they were his career numbers. One year, my bad 3/4 a year wonder is fooling you people on this board.

[Admin]

I don't remember any with him going in the top 5 but I remember several that had us picking him at 6. A lot of that was because he is an Atlanta native of course, but it also meant that he had the talent to be picked that high.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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A "true" Hawks fan knows that Smith is vital to this teams success.

I was just watching highlights on youtube from Game 6 and Josh Smith's highlights dude is just straight sick.

There is no other player I favor more than Smoove.

Game 6?

Game 6 was one of his most inconsistent games of that series. Now Game 3, he played like an elite level superstar. He was so under control that game and made all the right plays. But Game 6, he was erratic as hell and turned the ball over 6 times and shot an airball 3-pointer.

But that's what we get with Smith.

[EazyRoc]

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The guy had his career year without Elton Brand down low to take any rbs away and he didn't even finish the entire year and now he is comparable to Smoove? You speak of those stats as if they were his career numbers. One year, my bad 3/4 a year wonder is fooling you people on this board.

I never compared him to Josh Smith. I just said he is a rare commodity like Josh Smith. If I say Lassie and Odie are both dogs, does that mean I'm comparing them ?

I also like how you try to change the subject, instead of admitting that you could have been wrong about downplaying Chris Kaman's value/rarity in today's NBA.

If Chris Kaman and Josh Smith were both on the market as UFA's, who do you honestly think would get the bigger contract ?

[Zone034life]

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talent. In fact, Smoove was considered to be a top 5 TALENT in his draft class. The reason he dropped to #17 was because of questions about his work ethic/attitude and whether they would allow him to realize all that potential. If he had not turned out as one of the best players in this draft, he would have UNDERACHIEVED.

I don't know of ANYBODY who thought that Chillz had more potential than Smoove but I think a LOT of teams thought Chillz was more likely to realize the talent that he did have than Smoove was. To Smoove's credit, he has worked on his game and he has proven that passing on him because of those questions was a mistake but that doesn't mean he has "overachieved." All that means is that he didn't "underachieve." He SHOULD be one of the best players in his draft class and he is.

Note - Marvin and Shelden were NOT picked ahead of Smoove. Each draft class is different and Smoove would have been a top 5 pick in EITHER of those drafts. He very well could have been the #1 overall pick in Shelden's draft.

You really are making my arguement for me. He was viewed as a, let's just say top 10 pick, only to slide down to 17. Now he could have been like Gerald Green(who had a top 10 grade as well) and went on to be released by his team because he never improved and his "so called" head case got in the way. But no unlike Green Smoove took on the challenge of being doubted and embarrased by Jay Bilas on draft night. Not only that but he has outperformed players drafted ahead of him in every draft since he was drafted. Thats including all players not just the Hawks picks.

Where do you get this logic that if Smoove was in Marvins or Shellheads draft he would have been taken higher? It doesn't matter about "what he was rated pre draft" or "if he was in another draft he would have been a top 5 pick". The only thing that matters is what actually happened. He actually was doubted and not expected to be where he is at this point.

I understand you have your own way of thinking but I am referring to actual events not how you precieved it should or might have happened.

[exodus]

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I DEFINITELY want Smoove back (and I would have matched ANY offer to him), but I certainly wouldn't say that he has "overachieved." He has done some good things but any contract he signs will be based FAR more on his POTENTIAL than on anything he has actually done.

Smoove will have to put up a LOT bigger numbers and give a LOT more consistent effort before he can be considered an overachiever. He could average 20/10/5/3 and I would call that him realizing his potential rather than him overachieving.

As for you wanting to replace MW, Zaza and Bibby with upgrades, hell, I would like to replace every player on our roster with upgrades. That said, I don't always agree with your definition of upgrades when it comes to those 3.

Smith was drafted at 17 and if that draft was held again he would surely be top 6.

If you don't think the 17th pick straight out of high school is overachieving averaging 17/8 in his 4th season while being the only player in the NBA in the top 10 in steals and blocks then i don't even know what to say.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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The guy had his career year without Elton Brand down low to take any rbs away and he didn't even finish the entire year and now he is comparable to Smoove? You speak of those stats as if they were his career numbers. One year, my bad 3/4 a year wonder is fooling you people on this board.

When you talk about Kaman, it's not necessarily an issue of which is the better player. The issue is which player would be a better fit on the Hawks. The people that support Kaman, sees a guy that actually plays like a center with a legit back to the basket game. He doesn't have a problem with shooting FTs and he's not a liability defensively. He'd instantly be the best center the Hawks have had since Dikembe.

Give LeBron Kaman, instead of Big Z, and LeBron and the Cavs have a good shot at beating Boston Give Detroit Kaman instead of McDyess, and you have the same scenario.

Kaman last year, benefitted from the same thing that Smith benefitted from when JJ went down in 06 - 07. Until that point, Smith was a highly erratic offensive player that almost refused to drive the bal at times.

JJ goes down, and you immeadiately see the kid drive the ball more an be very effective at it.

Just like people can't discount the 20 and 10 Smith put up without JJ, you can't discount the 16 and 13 Kaman put up without Brand. Being a primary offensive focus helped Smith's offensive game in 07 - 08. The same will hold true for Kaman next year, even if his overall numbers slip. Both guys will be more efficient offensive players

Smith is not a scrub.

Kaman isn't either.

Both are more talented all-around than Dalembert and Biendrins.

[Zone034life]

Wasn't Luke Jackson picked ahead of Smoove in that draft? Now he is trying to gain a roster spot on the summer league squad. Some people act as if it is a given that Smoove has turned out so well. For someone who was categorized as a slacker,and still is by some, the kid is putting up numbers and gives max effort on the floor.

You would think he was the number 2 overall pick and the other guy was #17 the way some people speak on this board. If Smoove wasn't a hard worker then he would already be trying to make a team like Gerald Green and Luke Jackson. The fact he is an athlete makes people believe he doesn't work hard. Maybe Smoove will make a commercial like MJ at the end of his career " Maybe I mislead you to think that just because I can run fast and jump high I never worked hard on my game."

Give the man some credit for making him into something many didn't expect him to be.

[thescout5]

Exactly Northcyde people around here act like Smith is a top 15 player.He has potential but also a 10 cent head. Small forwards are easier to get than centers but i do understand the doubt in Kaman only one good year without Brand who played in 8 games.

I guess Hawk fans think they can win championships with Marvin/Horford and Smoove.Well this is a mood point I doubt Kaman is available. It will be interesting to see how Marvin/Horford and Smoove grow or remain the same and the Hawk's ability to win games.

[crimedog]

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Exactly Northcyde people around here act like Smith is a top 15 player.He has potential but also a 10 cent head. Small forwards are easier to get than centers but i do understand the doubt in Kaman only one good year without Brand who played in 8 games.

I guess Hawk fans think they can win championships with Marvin/Horford and Smoove.Well this is a mood point I doubt Kaman is available. It will be interesting to see how Marvin/Horford and Smoove grow or remain the same and the Hawk's ability to win games.

I love this attitude. People hear someone say "championship teams are built around centers" so they think "hey, if we get a center we will win a championship! Lets trade Smith for Kaman!"

I can understand people not liking Smith because of his basketball IQ or the fact that he doesn't shoot a high enough % or something. What I can't understand is why they complain about his "10 cent head" and they say that they want to go out and get one of the least focused players in the league... Do people realize that Kaman gets as many TOs as Smith with fewer points and assists? Do people realize that they complain about Smith shooting 46% as a PF (even though he gets a lot of FTs) and then wants a C who shoots 48%, gets less FTs and less shots?

The "grass is greener" movement is going strong.

[EazyRoc]

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Exactly Northcyde people around here act like Smith is a top 15 player.He has potential but also a 10 cent head. Small forwards are easier to get than centers but i do understand the doubt in Kaman only one good year without Brand who played in 8 games.

I guess Hawk fans think they can win championships with Marvin/Horford and Smoove.Well this is a mood point I doubt Kaman is available. It will be interesting to see how Marvin/Horford and Smoove grow or remain the same and the Hawk's ability to win games.

I love this attitude. People hear someone say "championship teams are built around centers" so they think "hey, if we get a center we will win a championship! Lets trade Smith for Kaman!"

I can understand people not liking Smith because of his basketball IQ or the fact that he doesn't shoot a high enough % or something. What I can't understand is why they complain about his "10 cent head" and they say that they want to go out and get one of the least focused players in the league... Do people realize that Kaman gets as many TOs as Smith with fewer points and assists? Do people realize that they complain about Smith shooting 46% as a PF (even though he gets a lot of FTs) and then wants a C who shoots 48%, gets less FTs and less shots?

The "grass is greener" movement is going strong.

As the focus of his team's offense it's only natural that he's going to turn the ball over. People don't complain because Smith is shooting 46%, people complain because he thinks he's a jumpshooter when he's not. His % would skyrocket if he just played in the post. However, that's not the point. Like northcyde said, it's all about how the players fit (theoretically, in Kaman's case). Kaman made big strides this year, and the reason he appeared to be "unfocused" is because he's dyslexic. Even with his faults, you cannot deny his value, and downplay him as if Josh Smith is so much better than him.

[Peoriabird]

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I can understand people not liking Smith because of his basketball IQ or the fact that he doesn't shoot a high enough % or something. What I can't understand is why they complain about his "10 cent head" and they say that they want to go out and get one of the least focused players in the league... Do people realize that Kaman gets as many TOs as Smith with fewer points and assists? Do people realize that they complain about Smith shooting 46% as a PF (even though he gets a lot of FTs) and then wants a C who shoots 48%, gets less FTs and less shots?

The "grass is greener" movement is going strong.

Thank you for supporting my point of view. Poster making an illogical argument to trade Smith for a player that is inferior to his talent because they don't like Smith. But instead of saying that they don't like Smith, they try to convince other posters that Smith is the worse player in the trade.

[tmac13]

I don't think there are any Smoove haters here. However if the choice is giving him a huge deal that hamstrings the team for years, letting him walk and receiving nothing in return. or getting the most we can get out of him in a sign and trade I think if you are a Hawks fan the 3rd option has to be considered.

[EazyRoc]

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I can understand people not liking Smith because of his basketball IQ or the fact that he doesn't shoot a high enough % or something. What I can't understand is why they complain about his "10 cent head" and they say that they want to go out and get one of the least focused players in the league... Do people realize that Kaman gets as many TOs as Smith with fewer points and assists? Do people realize that they complain about Smith shooting 46% as a PF (even though he gets a lot of FTs) and then wants a C who shoots 48%, gets less FTs and less shots?

The "grass is greener" movement is going strong.

Thank you for supporting my point of view. Poster making an illogical argument to trade Smith for a player that is inferior to his talent because they don't like Smith. But instead of saying that they don't like Smith, they try to convince other posters that Smith is the worse player in the trade.

Man up. Name names or keep your mouth shut.

[Traceman]

that described him as a top 5 TALENT but that they also said his attitude/work ethic/rawness, etc would prevent him from going that high in the draft. I also seem to remember Chad Ford initially thinking that Smoove would go top 5, then he thought he would fall to us at #6 to us and then he thought he might slip all the way to us at #17.

Again, I could be wrong but I thought several profiles had him just behind Howard, Okafor, Livingston and Gordon from a TALENT standpoint and AHEAD of Deng, Iggy, Chillz, Harris, etc.

[Traceman]

'Overachieving." To me, when you "overachieve," you accomplish something that you did not have the ABILITY to accomplish (or at least no one THOUGHT you had the ability to accomplish). Smoove always had the ability to accomplish everything he has done so far. The fact that he has done so means to me that he has ACHIEVED what he was always quite capable of achieving. Honestly, Smoove would have to become damn close to LeBron before I think he is overachieving. I think he has that kind of God -given talent.

An example of OVERACHIEVING would be Mario West becoming an NBA player based on his sheer desire and hustle.