Did Ellis just set the market for Smoove?

[WraithSentinel]

ASG has no credibility left. It is up to them to make it happen.

[crimedog]

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It should be easy from here on for the Hawks to sign Smoove now that market has been set. In fact the market has been set since Bogut sign his contract. Now that one of the RFA has sign the market is set once again. If this doesn't get ASG back to the table then nothing will. And by back to the table I mean ASAP.

Or... just as reasonably... "If this doesn't get Smoove back to the table, then nothing will. And by back to the table I mean ASAP."

Why is this so hard to acknowledge that it's a two-way street? (... and possibly even a three-way, if Smoove is waiting on anything from Europe to fall in his lap).

Granted, everything we hear from Sekou & Co. needs to be put in perspective, but the most reliable source (Sekou in this case) has consistently said that ASG is the party who is holding fast at a contract they believe they can force on Smith and his people.

I know you like to play contrarian (exclusively) but its a MUCH greater leap of logic to say that Smith's people aren't willing to go back to the table if ASG is actually going to offer a bigger contract than it is to say that ASG won't go back to the table to see if Smith's people are willing to accept something around what Ellis got.

[Zone034life]

No more talk about other teams not signing there RFA. Get it done before J.R Smith, Mo Evans, Kwame Brown, Vujacic and Randolph Morris are off the market.

I'm ready to start back talking about the players on the court and not the ASG!

[Packfill]

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It should be easy from here on for the Hawks to sign Smoove now that market has been set. In fact the market has been set since Bogut sign his contract. Now that one of the RFA has sign the market is set once again. If this doesn't get ASG back to the table then nothing will. And by back to the table I mean ASAP.

Or... just as reasonably... "If this doesn't get Smoove back to the table, then nothing will. And by back to the table I mean ASAP."

Why is this so hard to acknowledge that it's a two-way street? (... and possibly even a three-way, if Smoove is waiting on anything from Europe to fall in his lap).

An $11 million offer from ASG would likely get Smoove back to the table. The ball is in their court.

[Sasha_Volkov]

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Granted, everything we hear from Sekou & Co. needs to be put in perspective, but the most reliable source (Sekou in this case) has consistently said that ASG is the party who is holding fast at a contract they believe they can force on Smith and his people.

Sekou has always been a mouthpiece for the players and their agents. He tends to only give one side of the story. I'd argue his "reliability" is pretty unreliable as well. I don't know if it's that his management sources suck or what. Personally I think he's just a crappy reporter.

Inane Sekou blog entry #2436: "I'm tellin' ya man...ASG ain't doin' right by these cats."

He makes Denberg and Voison look like Pulitzer candidates.

[sturt]

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its a MUCH greater leap of logic to say that Smith's people aren't willing to go back to the table if ASG is actually going to offer a bigger contract than it is to say that ASG won't go back to the table to see if Smith's people are willing to accept something around what Ellis got.

And that's because.... ???

I mean really.... what is the basis for that assertion?

Maybe I missed it, but my understanding is that the only thing we know for certain is that Sund let it be known what was essentially offered to Chilz. I'm aware that there was an unsubstantiated (?) report that the Hawks first offer to Smoove was $9 mil. Do we know anything about Smoove's first offer to ASG? Was it $13 mil? More? Less? I mean, really, even if you know what ASG's first offer was, don't you have to know what Smoove was trying to get before you make the statement that you do?

And... again, I'll say it, though I'm uncertain whether anyone is actually considering it...

If I'm Smoove's agent, I'm not doing my job if I don't work to see what I can do with this new European option to add to my leverage.

[thefloydian]

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Smith deserves 12 million a year. He is worth that.

I would be ok with it if he gets $12 million/yr.

But the fact is that he has major holes in his game (poor and frequent outside shooting, turnovers) that have to count against him come contract time.

I think $11 million/yr is a fair compromise.

As far as Philly and the Clipps go it is a given that a team has to overpay for a RFA from another team. You can't lure away a RFA by just offering a fair contract.

I like the incentive idea that you brought up before. $10 million base with incentives up to $11.5 Million per season

What are the incentives? You get extra cash if you take less than 30 3-pointers on the season?

[crimedog]

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its a MUCH greater leap of logic to say that Smith's people aren't willing to go back to the table if ASG is actually going to offer a bigger contract than it is to say that ASG won't go back to the table to see if Smith's people are willing to accept something around what Ellis got.

And that's because.... ???

I mean really.... what is the basis for that assertion?

Maybe I missed it, but my understanding is that the only thing we know for certain is that Sund let it be known what was essentially offered to Chilz. I'm aware that there was an unsubstantiated (?) report that the Hawks first offer to Smoove was $9 mil. Do we know anything about Smoove's first offer to ASG? Was it $13 mil? More? Less? I mean, really, even if you know what ASG's first offer was, don't you have to know what Smoove was trying to get before you make the statement that you do?

And... again, I'll say it, though I'm uncertain whether anyone is actually considering it...

If I'm Smoove's agent, I'm not doing my job if I don't work to see what I can do with this new European option to add to my leverage.

Its a much greater leap of faith because ASG has always acted as though they had leverage in this situation, and for the most part its because they have. Smith is RFA so unless he wants to take the QO, he has to play ball with them and since Smith hasn't asked for a SnT like Okafor or given an ultimatum about the QO like Deng, I'd imagine he is still open to coming back.

The party with no leverage generally doesn't hold out do they? I mean, from my experience at least.

[sturt]

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Its a much greater leap of faith because ASG has always acted as though they had leverage in this situation, and for the most part its because they have.

Always? I have to confess, I don't even recall the last time prior to this off-season ASG had this situation where they had an RFA of Chilz or Smoove's magnitude that the team wanted to keep. Help me out. Was Harrington in that situation?

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since Smith hasn't asked for a SnT like Okafor or given an ultimatum about the QO like Deng,

Source? How do you know this? I mean, I hope you see my point... these are closed-door negotiations that you (and you're certainly not alone) talk as if you know what's going on... it's not a crime, crimedog, to just admit it... we are in the dark, ALL OF US, and there's very little light to be had.

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The party with no leverage generally doesn't hold out do they? I mean, from my experience at least.

Okay, I'll concede that point... but... (in the words of the famous philosopher Foghat... might I be... third time lucky... ???)... if he had no leverage before, it is completely conceivable that Smoove's good friend just created it for him.

Yet... *sigh*...

I wouldn't know.

And neither would you.

It is just not credible to deny the simple truth that it goes both ways.

[tmac13]

11 is fair but if they had to start at 11 and escalate it to 12 that would be ok also. That would split the difference between Boguts contract and the one Ellis just got. I think bigs have slightly more value than guards.

[exodus]

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I don't even recall the last time prior to this off-season ASG had this situation where they had an RFA of Chilz or Smoove's magnitude that the team wanted to keep.

The last quality RFA the Hawks have had is JT. Harrington was a UFA that they didn't want to keep.

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Source? How do you know this? I mean, I hope you see my point... these are closed-door negotiations

He is talking about public stories about Deng and Okafor which granted are secondhand info from sources close to the negotiations that have been widely reported.

[DrReality]

It might be a little high, but when you consider the PR nightmare it would create if he did not come back, the difference in what they are offering and what he wants amounts to a small price.

[crimedog]

Well tontoz answered a couple of questions, but yeah, the point is that the seeming preponderance of evidence in certain cases (Smith isn't as close to wanting out as Oak or Deng and ASG/Sund took a confident approach with Childress) coupled with common sense (a party with no leverage is not going to "hold out" as they have less to gain) would lead us to believe that Smith's people aren't going to be ignoring Sund's phone calls begging them to come to the table.

I guess you are within your right to take this, "we don't know anything for a fact so we have to give both sides an absolutely equal benifit of the doubt" approach, it just goes against common sense.

Now if we started hearing more things about Smith that sounded like what we hear about Okafor or Deng (things that weren't retracted immediately like Broussard's comments or Stein's de facto retraction of Bucher), than maybe I'd believe that Smith's people were at the ultimatum stage.

[exodus]

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It might be a little high, but when you consider the PR nightmare it would create if he did not come back, the difference in what they are offering and what he wants amounts to a small price.

I agree and i am sure the ASG realizes this which is why i would expect this to get done within the next couple of weeks.