Marvin vs JR Smith

[A-town Hawks]

Alright we have our chillz replacement, and I must say Mo Evans was a good and cheap rebound from the Childress Europe fiasco. So lets say Smith is resigned and we also sign a nice big (Kwame or Morris) with the remainder or the mle. That means we will go going back next season with no major lineup differences, and I think in the vastly improved East getting back into the playoffs will be highly unlikely.

But can we be missing a golden opportunity? Would a JR Smith/Marvin Williams swap really improve the starting line-up or would we just be trading away Marvin for a character issue waiting to happen?

Talent/Skill wise there is nothing that Marvin posesses that JR doesn't but Marvin doesn't bring the coaching headaches that JR does bring. If we had a coach that was better with dealing with player personalities I would be all for a Marvin/JR swap. Thoughts

[GTfan44]

If Marvin has been getting stronger and working with someone like Jamison this summer, there is no way I'd trade him.

Marvin just needs to be stronger and he will be absolutely fine here.

J.R. Smith would've been a very sexy pick for our 6th man, but Mo Evans is our man.

Keep our lineup!

We will be back in the playoffs.

We underachieved for half the season, we are older, more experienced than last year, and we are HEALTHY for now.

If it doesn't need fixing, don't fix it

[mattlanta]

I'd rather keep Marvin Williams. He's a much better defender than J.R. Smith, although Smith has made some improvements in his defense. J.R. Smith is a much better offensive player than Marvin as of right now. He can shoot threes, create his own shot, and finish strong near the rim - some things Marvin has been known to struggle in in his career.

[Chris18]

Marvin is better than J.R. at everything except 3 point shooting.

[EazyRoc]

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Alright we have our chillz replacement, and I must say Mo Evans was a good and cheap rebound from the Childress Europe fiasco. So lets say Smith is resigned and we also sign a nice big (Kwame or Morris) with the remainder or the mle. That means we will go going back next season with no major lineup differences, and I think in the vastly improved East getting back into the playoffs will be highly unlikely.

But can we be missing a golden opportunity? Would a JR Smith/Marvin Williams swap really improve the starting line-up or would we just be trading away Marvin for a character issue waiting to happen?

Talent/Skill wise there is nothing that Marvin posesses that JR doesn't but Marvin doesn't bring the coaching headaches that JR does bring. If we had a coach that was better with dealing with player personalities I would be all for a Marvin/JR swap. Thoughts

No, and Hell no.

JR Smith might be the better shooter and probably the better athlete. However, Marvin is a better scorer, defender, and rebounder. He's much more coachable than Smith, and is the all around better player. I think you're overrating JR Smith a little, don't let everyone around here hype you up too much..

[capstone21]

Marvin is the better player not to mention he has his head on straight. Smith is a head case.

I think everyone here will be surprised how much Marvin improves this season with Childress gone.

Woody always pulled him at the 5-6 minute mark of the first quarter every game. It did not matter if Marvin was hot or not. He is growing and maturing and he is learning the game.

[A-town Hawks]

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Alright we have our chillz replacement, and I must say Mo Evans was a good and cheap rebound from the Childress Europe fiasco. So lets say Smith is resigned and we also sign a nice big (Kwame or Morris) with the remainder or the mle. That means we will go going back next season with no major lineup differences, and I think in the vastly improved East getting back into the playoffs will be highly unlikely.

But can we be missing a golden opportunity? Would a JR Smith/Marvin Williams swap really improve the starting line-up or would we just be trading away Marvin for a character issue waiting to happen?

Talent/Skill wise there is nothing that Marvin posesses that JR doesn't but Marvin doesn't bring the coaching headaches that JR does bring. If we had a coach that was better with dealing with player personalities I would be all for a Marvin/JR swap. Thoughts

No, and Hell no.

JR Smith might be the better shooter and probably the better athlete. However, Marvin is a better scorer, defender, and rebounder. He's much more coachable than Smith, and is the all around better player. I think you're overrating JR Smith a little, don't let everyone around here hype you up too much..

Its not that I am being hyped by others, I just think that JR has some serious All-star potential. before the Iverson trade in 07' he and Carmelo we really leading the Nuggets to the best record in the West. The kid was getting all-star looks and made everyone happy when he was getting the playing time and opportunity to showcase his talent next to carmelo. But because of Iverson coming over and demanding the ball more along with that injury he had that hampered him the whole remainder of the season he was put in the infamous George Karl doghouse (which is known to be a easy doghouse to get into, but hard to come out).

You talk about marvin being a better defender, scorer, and rebounder. Marvin is no elite defender he's average at best, with Smoove covering up alot of his defensive mistakes. JR was a decent defender when motivated with playing time, I am also a nuggets fan and watch alot of their games when im not watching the hawks. Late in the 07' season JR was fighting to get back into Karls everchanging rotation, and in early april he did by focusing on defense.

Hands down the better scorer is JR, his 3pt shooting is much better than marvin and with him in the line-up next year when Acie is hopefully ready to take over as a mature pg we will still have a good shooting team with Acie/Joe/JR vs a dismal Acie/Joe/Marv lineup witth only one real perimeter threat. JR is very aggressive and loves to attack, which has been the problem with Marvin his whole career, also JR provides us with a much better complement to JJ's game than Marv is. He can really help Joe take on the offense load. You must be happy if your Joe in this trade having Bibby/JR/Smoove/Horford as your supporting cast is perfect.

JR's athleticism if harnested the right way can make him a very respectable rebounder, plus the expected signing of a big like Kwame can help make up the small rebounding stats Marvin leaves.

Plus this trade helps us financially with Marvin in a contract year and sure to demand around a 8mil per long term deal. Getting JR to come for a 4yr 26mil (6.5 yearly) deal would save us alot of potential money when its time to resign Al and JJ

[Peoriabird]

You just knew that it was a matter of time after we sign someone that the Marvin hate threads would return! This MB is so predictable.

[A-town Hawks]

Wait quick stats for you guys:

JR Smith

MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG

19.2 0.461 0.403 0.719 0.6 1.5 2.1 1.7 0.8 0.2 1.51 1.90 12.3

Marvin

MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG

34.6 0.462 0.100 0.822 1.5 4.2 5.7 1.7 1.0 0.4 1.59 2.80 14.8

[EazyRoc]

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Alright we have our chillz replacement, and I must say Mo Evans was a good and cheap rebound from the Childress Europe fiasco. So lets say Smith is resigned and we also sign a nice big (Kwame or Morris) with the remainder or the mle. That means we will go going back next season with no major lineup differences, and I think in the vastly improved East getting back into the playoffs will be highly unlikely.

But can we be missing a golden opportunity? Would a JR Smith/Marvin Williams swap really improve the starting line-up or would we just be trading away Marvin for a character issue waiting to happen?

Talent/Skill wise there is nothing that Marvin posesses that JR doesn't but Marvin doesn't bring the coaching headaches that JR does bring. If we had a coach that was better with dealing with player personalities I would be all for a Marvin/JR swap. Thoughts

No, and Hell no.

JR Smith might be the better shooter and probably the better athlete. However, Marvin is a better scorer, defender, and rebounder. He's much more coachable than Smith, and is the all around better player. I think you're overrating JR Smith a little, don't let everyone around here hype you up too much..

Its not that I am being hyped by others, I just think that JR has some serious All-star potential. before the Iverson trade in 07' he and Carmelo we really leading the Nuggets to the best record in the West. The kid was getting all-star looks and made everyone happy when he was getting the playing time and opportunity to showcase his talent next to carmelo. But because of Iverson coming over and demanding the ball more along with that injury he had that hampered him the whole remainder of the season he was put in the infamous George Karl doghouse (which is known to be a easy doghouse to get into, but hard to come out).

You talk about marvin being a better defender, scorer, and rebounder. Marvin is no elite defender he's average at best, with Smoove covering up alot of his defensive mistakes. JR was a decent defender when motivated with playing time, I am also a nuggets fan and watch alot of their games when im not watching the hawks. Late in the 07' season JR was fighting to get back into Karls everchanging rotation, and in early april he did by focusing on defense.

Hands down the better scorer is JR, his 3pt shooting is much better than marvin and with him in the line-up next year when Acie is hopefully ready to take over as a mature pg we will still have a good shooting team with Acie/Joe/JR vs a dismal Acie/Joe/Marv lineup witth only one real perimeter threat. JR is very aggressive and loves to attack, which has been the problem with Marvin his whole career, also JR provides us with a much better complement to JJ's game than Marv is. He can really help Joe take on the offense load. You must be happy if your Joe in this trade having Bibby/JR/Smoove/Horford as your supporting cast is perfect.

JR's athleticism if harnested the right way can make him a very respectable rebounder, plus the expected signing of a big like Kwame can help make up the small rebounding stats Marvin leaves.

Plus this trade helps us financially with Marvin in a contract year and sure to demand around a 8mil per long term deal. Getting JR to come for a 4yr 26mil (6.5 yearly) deal would save us alot of potential money when its time to resign Al and JJ

Marvin is an above average defender and JR is a terrible defender. JR is not a good rebounder, and never will be. JR is not the better scorer. Marvin scored more points last year and got to the FT line much more. JR can shoot better, but Marvin puts more points on the scoreboard. JR is just about as good as he's going to be now, while Marvin still has plenty of tools to grow into a potent scorer (Mid-range game/ability to get to the FT line). If you really think JR is as good as or better than Marvin Williams, you've got something against Marv.

[A-town Hawks]

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Marvin is an above average defender and JR is a terrible defender. JR is not a good rebounder, and never will be. JR is

not

the better scorer. Marvin scored more points last year and got to the FT line much more. JR can shoot better, but Marvin puts more points on the scoreboard. JR is just about as good as he's going to be now, while Marvin still has plenty of tools to grow into a potent scorer (Mid-range game/ability to get to the FT line). If you really think JR is as good as or better than Marvin Williams, you've got something against Marv.

You cannot be serious, how is marvin a above average defender to be above average you must have something that seperates you from the group and marvin isnt anything spectacular defensively. The guy is average at best. You sayd JR is not a good rebounder, JR has played the SG his whole life as opposed to Marvin who has played the SF/PF position and has is much closer to the basket and rebounding action. JR got only 20 min per game last season due to George Karls rotation flip flop tendencies and because of A.I commanding at least 30 min a game from the 2 guard spot. But even in that 19.2 min per game Smith got about half the amount of rebounds from the SG spot.

For you to say that Marvin is a better scorer than JR and has more potential than JR must mean you don't know a lick about the NBA and your'e just a homer talking out of your ass. Cmon we all agree that JR is a much better offensive player as he almost average the same points as marvin in HALF the minutes while shooting the same percentage from the field. With JR being only 9 months and ten days older than Marvin for you to talk about there being a substantial difference in potential is not adequate. JR has the full package in talent and skills if he can just be developed correctly and begin to learn the right way to play the game the kid can be a STAR. Marvin has NO star potential.

[Peoriabird]

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You cannot be serious, how is marvin a above average defender to be above average you must have something that seperates you from the group and marvin isnt anything spectacular defensively. The guy is average at best. .

Williams is stronger at the defensive end, where he is quick enough to switch out against guards and has the size to bother opposing shooters. He does a solid job against most small forwards and can even play bigger shooting guards; the Hawks sometimes used him as a defensive stopper against A-list scorers, but this usually didn't work out well. It might turn out better in another year or two when he has more experience checking smaller players.

And this is from Hollinger 2 years ago. after the 2006-07 season.

[Swatguy]

Oh boy, If Woody is cool with JR, I'm trading. I'm starting Zaza/Kwame at 5, JSmith at 3 and bring in Speedy and JR for Bibs and Zaza/Kwame at the 7minute break.

We scoring 30 points in the first every game.

If the guy has matured or wants to mature he is an upgrade by athleticism, skills and heart.

Oh yeah I make that trade, if the guy's head is straight.

[Peoriabird]

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Oh boy, If Woody is cool with JR, I'm trading. I'm starting Zaza/Kwame at 5, JSmith at 3 and bring in Speedy and JR for Bibs and Zaza/Kwame at the 7minute break.

We scoring 30 points in the first every game.

If the guy has matured or wants to mature he is an upgrade by athleticism, skills and heart.

Oh yeah I make that trade, if the guy's head is straight.

What a surprise!

[A-town Hawks]

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You cannot be serious, how is marvin a above average defender to be above average you must have something that seperates you from the group and marvin isnt anything spectacular defensively. The guy is average at best. .

Williams is stronger at the defensive end, where he is quick enough to switch out against guards and has the size to bother opposing shooters. He does a solid job against most small forwards and can even play bigger shooting guards; the Hawks sometimes used him as a defensive stopper against A-list scorers, but this usually didn't work out well. It might turn out better in another year or two when he has more experience checking smaller players.

And this is from Hollinger 2 years ago. after the 2006-07 season.

All you really said there is that he is tall and quick, not that he's a good defender. You cant go around reading to find out if he's a good defender especially from a guy like Hollinger who like many ESPN writers dont give a damn to watch the hawks. Watch the games and its easy to see Marvin is nothing special defensively.

[EazyRoc]

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Marvin is an above average defender and JR is a terrible defender. JR is not a good rebounder, and never will be. JR is

not

the better scorer. Marvin scored more points last year and got to the FT line much more. JR can shoot better, but Marvin puts more points on the scoreboard. JR is just about as good as he's going to be now, while Marvin still has plenty of tools to grow into a potent scorer (Mid-range game/ability to get to the FT line). If you really think JR is as good as or better than Marvin Williams, you've got something against Marv.

You cannot be serious, how is marvin a above average defender to be above average you must have something that seperates you from the group and marvin isnt anything spectacular defensively. The guy is average at best. You sayd JR is not a good rebounder, JR has played the SG his whole life as opposed to Marvin who has played the SF/PF position and has is much closer to the basket and rebounding action. JR got only 20 min per game last season due to George Karls rotation flip flop tendencies and because of A.I commanding at least 30 min a game from the 2 guard spot. But even in that 19.2 min per game Smith got about half the amount of rebounds from the SG spot.

For you to say that Marvin is a better scorer than JR and has more potential than JR must mean you don't know a lick about the NBA and your'e just a homer talking out of your ass. Cmon we all agree that JR is a much better offensive player as he almost average the same points as marvin in HALF the minutes while shooting the same percentage from the field. With JR being only 9 months and ten days older than Marvin for you to talk about there being a substantial difference in potential is not adequate. JR has the full package in talent and skills if he can just be developed correctly and begin to learn the right way to play the game the kid can be a STAR. Marvin has NO star potential.

I don't understand you can irrationally praise a player like JR Smith, who is solid, but claim a player who has had a better career is worse and has no star potential. Marvin's defense is above average for a SF, and JR Smith's defense is below average for a SG. If JR Smith was the player you claim him to be, he would have started instead of come off the bench. He's a solid shooter, but he does nothing to deserve the hype you're giving him. To say J.R. Smith, a player who has played for like 3 teams in his 4 years in the NBA, can be a star and reply Marvin can't be a star makes it seems like you don't watch the team. I'm not taking anything away from JR Smith, but his 12 ppg and 2 rpg averages, coupled with the fact that he could not get over 20 minutes on a team that isn't necessarily loaded with talent makes me believe that he isn't a future star. Marvin, who came into the league a year later, averages 15 and 6 and is a good defender, and he has NO star potential ?

I don't understand your logic.

[A-town Hawks]

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Oh boy, If Woody is cool with JR, I'm trading. I'm starting Zaza/Kwame at 5, JSmith at 3 and bring in Speedy and JR for Bibs and Zaza/Kwame at the 7minute break.

We scoring 30 points in the first every game.

If the guy has matured or wants to mature he is an upgrade by athleticism, skills and heart.

Oh yeah I make that trade, if the guy's head is straight.

Lets just say good thing your'e not the coach

Bibby/Law/Speedy

Joe/Evans

J.R./Evans/Richarson

Smith/Zaza

Horford/Kwame/Jones

[Swatguy]

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a guy like Hollinger who like many ESPN writers dont give a damn to watch the hawks.

Ah...you gotta scratch that assertion. Hollinger is perched 25-35 games upstairs at the Philips. Watching.

[Cwell]

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Marvin is an above average defender and JR is a terrible defender. JR is not a good rebounder, and never will be. JR is

not

the better scorer. Marvin scored more points last year and got to the FT line much more. JR can shoot better, but Marvin puts more points on the scoreboard. JR is just about as good as he's going to be now, while Marvin still has plenty of tools to grow into a potent scorer (Mid-range game/ability to get to the FT line). If you really think JR is as good as or better than Marvin Williams, you've got something against Marv.

You cannot be serious, how is marvin a above average defender to be above average you must have something that seperates you from the group and marvin isnt anything spectacular defensively. The guy is average at best. You sayd JR is not a good rebounder, JR has played the SG his whole life as opposed to Marvin who has played the SF/PF position and has is much closer to the basket and rebounding action. JR got only 20 min per game last season due to George Karls rotation flip flop tendencies and because of A.I commanding at least 30 min a game from the 2 guard spot. But even in that 19.2 min per game Smith got about half the amount of rebounds from the SG spot.

For you to say that Marvin is a better scorer than JR and has more potential than JR must mean you don't know a lick about the NBA and your'e just a homer talking out of your ass. Cmon we all agree that JR is a much better offensive player as he almost average the same points as marvin in HALF the minutes while shooting the same percentage from the field. With JR being only 9 months and ten days older than Marvin for you to talk about there being a substantial difference in potential is not adequate. JR has the full package in talent and skills if he can just be developed correctly and begin to learn the right way to play the game the kid can be a STAR. Marvin has NO star potential.

I don't understand you can irrationally praise a player like JR Smith, who is solid, but claim a player who has had a better career is worse and has no star potential. Marvin's defense is above average for a SF, and JR Smith's defense is below average for a SG. If JR Smith was the player you claim him to be, he would have started instead of come off the bench. He's a solid shooter, but he does nothing to deserve the hype you're giving him. To say J.R. Smith, a player who has played for like 3 teams in his 4 years in the NBA, can be a star and reply Marvin can't be a star makes it seems like you don't watch the team. I'm not taking anything away from JR Smith, but his 12 ppg and 2 rpg averages, coupled with the fact that he could not get over 20 minutes on a team that isn't necessarily loaded with talent makes me believe that he isn't a future star. Marvin, who came into the league a year later, averages 15 and 6 and is a good defender, and he has NO star potential ?

I don't understand your logic. lol like Marvin would take minutes from Allen Iverson and Carmelo Anthony. He's a 6th man for Denver but he started with NO.Chicago never wanted him so he's only really been on 2 teams. I know the guy has issues but the way people act like Marvin has done anything since coming to the NBA kills me. I'm no J.R. fan or anything but atleast the guy did something his first 2 years. Marvin couldn't even make it to the rookie sophomore game either year.

[Swatguy]

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I don't understand you can irrationally praise a player like JR Smith, who is solid, but claim a player who has had a better career is worse and has no star potential. Marvin's defense

is

above average for a SF, and JR Smith's defense is below average for a SG. If JR Smith was the player you claim him to be, he would have started instead of come off the bench. He's a solid shooter, but he does nothing to deserve the hype you're giving him. To say J.R. Smith, a player who has played for like 3 teams in his 4 years in the NBA, can be a star and reply Marvin can't be a star makes it seems like you don't watch the team. I'm not taking anything away from JR Smith, but his 12 ppg and 2 rpg averages, coupled with the fact that he could not get over 20 minutes on a team that isn't necessarily loaded with talent makes me believe that he isn't a future star. Marvin, who came into the league a year later, averages 15 and 6 and is a good defender, and he has NO star potential ?

I don't understand your logic.

So you suppose AI and 'Melo are "isn't necessarily loaded with talent", "isn't necessarily loaded with talent"? You must be Mad.