What would you pick?

[Diesel]

As it means to move Smith to SF I say we pick a SF and leave Smith at PF and Horford at C.

If the question is wich is the right move, that is to trade Smith for a starting C.

Politically, it's not smart to trade Smoove.

Basketball wise, you can make the move make a lot of sense. You can say SMoove for Kaman straight up on Dec. 15....

By basketball reasoning it would make some sense. It gives you classic positions and skillsets.. It gives a big who rebounds, plays defense, and scores.

However, there's the political nature. Smoove is exciting and he places players in seats. He is the face of the team (really). He's not the best player, but he's the most recognizable player. And he "reps" the city strongly. So trading him is not the correct political move. Just like Nique for Manning was a good basketball move (contracts not considered). However, you killed a franchise the day you traded Nique. There are certain players who endear themselves to a city and regardless of what you feel you can get for them, you just don't trade them. Smoove has moved himself into that place.

In that place, you find Cal Ripken Jr., Dale Murphy, Deion Sanders, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Shaq, etc...

[crimedog]

Politically, it's not smart to trade Smoove.

Basketball wise, you can make the move make a lot of sense. You can say SMoove for Kaman straight up on Dec. 15....

By basketball reasoning it would make some sense. It gives you classic positions and skillsets.. It gives a big who rebounds, plays defense, and scores.

However, there's the political nature. Smoove is exciting and he places players in seats. He is the face of the team (really). He's not the best player, but he's the most recognizable player. And he "reps" the city strongly. So trading him is not the correct political move. Just like Nique for Manning was a good basketball move (contracts not considered). However, you killed a franchise the day you traded Nique. There are certain players who endear themselves to a city and regardless of what you feel you can get for them, you just don't trade them. Smoove has moved himself into that place.

In that place, you find Cal Ripken Jr., Dale Murphy, Deion Sanders, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Shaq, etc...

You've obviously watched a lot of ball, what team has benefitted by trading talent for "traditional positions", not necessarilly fit because we rely on Smith to create his own shot and we have trouble throwing entry passes?

I mean you are talking about trading a more talented 22 year old for a less talented 26 year old and the best example is when we traded a 34 year old Nique for a 27 year old Manning and we won the exact same amount of games and underwhelmed in the playoffs.

Edited August 12, 2008 by crimedog

[crimedog]

double post

Edited August 12, 2008 by crimedog

[Traceman]

Gay is a starter.

Bynum might work?

You are HILARIOUS! You know FULL WELL that Bynum was a starter when he got hurt and that he will be a starter again when he's healthy. In addition, we certainly wouldn't come close to getting him for $6M.

As for my Ginobili answer, I misunderstood what you were asking. When you said that Stern said pick from any team and we could pay the guy $6M, I didn't see that as the other player having a choice in the matter, even if it meant he took a pay cut.

Question, what about RFAs? For instance, Ben Gordon didn't start for the Bulls but he damn sure wouldn't "settle" for $6M either.

[Diesel]

You've obviously watched a lot of ball, what team has benefitted by trading talent for "traditional positions", not necessarilly fit because we rely on Smith to create his own shot and we have trouble throwing entry passes?

I mean you are talking about trading a more talented 22 year old for a less talented 26 year old and the best example is when we traded a 34 year old Nique for a 27 year old Manning and we won the exact same amount of games and underwhelmed in the playoffs.

Well, to start...

Let's go to Laker Land. In what I thought was the worst move in the world, the Lakers traded Eddie Jones and Elden Campbell for Glenn Rice. At the time, the Lakers were playing Bryant at the 2 and Jones at the 3. Jones was definitely out of position. Jones was the better Athlete. Jones was the better defender. Rice was the better shooter. Even though the move was ill concieved, it worked because by removing Jones from the mix, the Lakers were then able to give Kobe more room to grow... AND Rice added another shooter on the perimeter to keep defenses off of Shaq as well as open up driving lanes for Kobe.

Next... Let's take it to Chicago. Charles Oakley (the enforcer) was traded for Medical Bill Cartwright. That's what sparked the Bulls surge into being a great team. Oakley was a Pf on a team that had no Center.. well, I think they had Brad Sellers. They also had a young rising PF named Horace Grant. So instead of suffering with Horace playing behind or Beside Oakley, they traded for old man Cartwright who had been a decent scorer with the Knicks and could do big man stuff. It worked.

Next, let' try to take a look at Detroit. One of the trades I truly hated but worked out was trading Adreian Dantley for Mark Aguirre. Dantley was a helluva scorer. Dantley was a true Swingman who looked more like a SG than a Sf. Aguirre was a SF. Built like a tank. He was about 6'6" 230.. compared to Dantley who was about 6'5" 205. Detroit couldn't win a championship with AD. They needed a guy who would let Dumars grow. Aguirre wasn't going to bowl anybody over with his FG% or his 3 pt shooting... but he was a danger because when he got it in his mind that he was going to score, he wouldn't stop until it was done. AD was definitely more efficient but he was not going to bring a power game that Detroit needed for it's bad boy image.

[crimedog]

The Lakers were a 61 win team before trading for Rice and afterwards they were worse then next, strike-shortened season. They won a title with Rice a couple years later and swapped him out for Rick Fox another Gaurd/Forward like Jones and won two more.

The Bulls were worse the next season after trading for Cartwright (after Pippen's rookie year if I remember correctly) and didn't win a title for another half decade until Pip had become a legit star.

The Pistons is one I might give you but they were trading a very past his prime Dantley (didn't he retire the next season?) for a still in his prime Aguirre who had been better the past couple of years.

All of these examples are teams that are near the top swapping out marginal, and in a couple cases declining talents, for comparable talents.

We are nowhere near 50 wins and to get there we need Smith to improve because Kaman isn't good enough, even with a better supporting cast (like he had a couple years ago when they made the playoffs, when he was a couple years older than Smith is now), to push a team over the top.

Edited August 12, 2008 by crimedog

[coachx]

I voted center b/c I like JJ playing the 12-15 minutes a night that Marvin is on the bench at SF allowing Evans to play more SG.

I would roll the dice on Andre Blatche from the Wizards. He is only 21 and 6'11 with skills on a low paying 2nd round contract.

I know he has had some minor troubles off the court but he gave us fits in games we played vs. him. Has alot of skill in the post for a 21 year old and is long. Can play PF or C.

Right after him come (not in order):

Jason Maxielle (love his energy and toughness off the bench)

James Jones (his shooting is just unreal)

Leon Powe is also nice and cheap

Does Pryzbilla count ? Looks like Oden will be starting for him.

Edited August 12, 2008 by coachx

[jhay610]

Shelden Williams, Property Manager (slumlord)

[Sasha_Volkov]

This is a thinly veiled "Smith could play the 3" thread. Vote SF. Don't feed the troll.

[gurpilo]

Politically, it's not smart to trade Smoove.

Basketball wise, you can make the move make a lot of sense. You can say SMoove for Kaman straight up on Dec. 15....

By basketball reasoning it would make some sense. It gives you classic positions and skillsets.. It gives a big who rebounds, plays defense, and scores.

However, there's the political nature. Smoove is exciting and he places players in seats. He is the face of the team (really). He's not the best player, but he's the most recognizable player. And he "reps" the city strongly. So trading him is not the correct political move. Just like Nique for Manning was a good basketball move (contracts not considered). However, you killed a franchise the day you traded Nique. There are certain players who endear themselves to a city and regardless of what you feel you can get for them, you just don't trade them. Smoove has moved himself into that place.

In that place, you find Cal Ripken Jr., Dale Murphy, Deion Sanders, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Shaq, etc...

I have been pursuing that trade long ago, we would be so much better, we would win like 50 games with Kaman and Horford, that would also allow Marvin to become the 2nd scorer and everybody would be in position. Horford is PF and we all accept that. It's a win situation for us. We all know we should grow around JJ and Horford.

Josh is the face of the team, I recognize that, but I think even all love Josh we all know we will not win any title with him. Probably with Kaman neither but the chances of becoming a contender increases. It's not like you trade the future Lebron James for Chris Laettner. Kaman is 4th or 5th center on the west, on the east he will be on the best 3 centers, it's top 10 talent and contribute both offensively and defensively.

[crimedog]

I have been pursuing that trade long ago, we would be so much better, we would win like 50 games with Kaman and Horford, that would also allow Marvin to become the 2nd scorer and everybody would be in position. Horford is PF and we all accept that. It's a win situation for us. We all know we should grow around JJ and Horford.

Josh is the face of the team, I recognize that, but I think even all love Josh we all know we will not win any title with him. Probably with Kaman neither but the chances of becoming a contender increases. It's not like you trade the future Lebron James for Chris Laettner. Kaman is 4th or 5th center on the west, on the east he will be on the best 3 centers, it's top 10 talent and contribute both offensively and defensively.

50 games? You realize that a couple of years ago Elton Brand was an MVP candidate and Sam Cassell had a career year and Kaman's Clippers were still just a 47 win team, right?

[DJlaysitup]

Actually I think Kaman on our team would really work. He is tough as nails (needs help on his hair)....and that's what we need. A big, tough, bruiser.

It would make things a lot more difficult for opposing teams coming to Phillips if they knew they had to deal with a stud in the middle who wasn't afraid of body contact - and a guy like JS coming over the top.

Edited August 12, 2008 by DJlaysitup