Will MW EVER have a season as productive as Deron's (or Bynum's or Paul's) 3rd season)

[Admin]

"As I remember, the claim was that his clutch baskets were 100% assisted, not all of his midrange offense.

Marvin's scoring went down after Bibby's arrival because he became the 4th scoring option. I wish he were more aggressive and would demand the ball more and not allow them to make him the 4th option but I don't know if he can do anything about it.He is 4th out of 5th in seniority as far as the starters go and 2 of those other 3 starters with more experience than him are more talented than he is."

So if you want to answer your own question on why I feel that Marvin won't match his production last season, read the red words. Even you admit that you have no hope for Marvin improving.

WTF? Where did I ever come close to saying that I have no hope for Marvin improving? I KNOW that Marvin will improve. Get your facts straight Diesel.

[Murat]

Isn't Walter the guy who wanted YI with our 3rd pick instead of Horford. Ouch!!

Why don't u compare Yi to Marvin? Both of them are sf.

[Admin]

Isn't Walter the guy who wanted YI with our 3rd pick instead of Horford. Ouch!!

Why don't u compare Yi to Marvin? Both of them are sf.

Yes, Walter was hot for Yi last year and Patrick O'Bryant the year before. He was also crazy about Saer Sene too if memory serves me.

[Iman]

To answer Walter, No, Marvin be as good as Deron or Paul were last year. However, even with our glut of young SF's, I would have drafted Marvin sorta because I didn't know for sure if Paul or Deron would be good NBA points or which one to take. It's done, it was a blown pick. But it kept us bad enough to get to keep the Phoenix pick and get Horford. I'd rather have Marvin and Horford than Deron or Paul, but actually just barely and depending on how much their contracts cost.

On Marvin improving, he seems to come out improved each year and then loses confidence as the year goes on. He supposedly gained some strength this offseason. With Smoove and Horford seeming to be hard workers, peer pressure alone will probably cause Marvin to work and play harder. So I think Marvin will still get much better. I think he has the skills to be as good as Carmelo, he just needs some of Carmelo's confidence.

[Vesper]

To answer Walter, No, Marvin be as good as Deron or Paul were last year. However, even with our glut of young SF's, I would have drafted Marvin sorta because I didn't know for sure if Paul or Deron would be good NBA points or which one to take. It's done, it was a blown pick. But it kept us bad enough to get to keep the Phoenix pick and get Horford. I'd rather have Marvin and Horford than Deron or Paul, but actually just barely and depending on how much their contracts cost.

On Marvin improving, he seems to come out improved each year and then loses confidence as the year goes on. He supposedly gained some strength this offseason. With Smoove and Horford seeming to be hard workers, peer pressure alone will probably cause Marvin to work and play harder. So I think Marvin will still get much better. I think he has the skills to be as good as Carmelo, he just needs some of Carmelo's confidence.

Carmelo thinks he's better than he really is! :saythat: :saythat:

[atlien]

lol Walter.

We made the wrong pick, we know this already (some of us "knew" it at the time too... I wanted Paul).

But, we know this already.

I dont really see the point of this exercise. It just shows that Marvin isn't and probably never will be on the level of these guys. But, WE ALREADY KNOW THIS!

What are you trying to prove?

[EazyRoc]

Will Marvin Williams Ever be as productive as.....Dominique Wilkins in his 3rd season !?!?!

[Guest Walter]

I don't know if Marvin was the right pick or not

If you don't know whether MW was the right pick or not by now no wonder you act like such a prick when people RIGHTLY question MW's talent and work ethic or consider him an underachiever. Wurider, you were wrong on MW. You need to let that go as much as anyone up until the point you decide to give MW another break. Let him earn it for once instead of trying to ride to his rescue all the GD time.

If JJ wasn't here then I would wholeheartedly agree with you with Marvin.

WTF? So MW's level of achievement is to be judged better because we have JJ? We GAVE MW a starting job! What else do you want for him? Should we pack his lunches and hire his skills coaches for him?

You guys compare him to players who are the man on their teams when he isn't or player who were drafted into better situations (Bynum).

Whose MFing fault is it that MW isn't the man?!? JJ is a fine enough player but he isn't the level of player that stops another player from being the man. Jeeze. Bynum is the 4th or 5th option on the Lakers and has Kobe taking up 25 shots a game. I-F JJ is a road block to MW's success (laughable) then Kobe is twice the roadblock the the success of anyone else on the Lakers.

I am not defending Marvin but rather I am looking at the entire situation. Plain common sense.................

Why is it plain common sense to insist that MW next year shouldn't be as good as Danny Granger this year per48 or per minute? Seriously. I've suggested that MW MUST put up numbers LESS THAN the Danny Granger of last year, a Sf picked 13 slots behind MW, to ever measure up to even a one-time all-star level numbers. THIS is common sense. If MW can't approach Danny G. with an extra season, WHO THE f*** IS MW KIDDING!?!?

W

Edited August 18, 2008 by Walter

[Guest Walter]

What are you trying to prove?

Simple. The extent to which MW-heads are a baffoons. Not only does MW not compare to Deron, Paul, Bynum, hell, even Granger...His best season will never compare to their developing ones. That's the point. MW's BEST SEASON EVER will still be less than Deron's, Paul's, and Bynum's this year.

If MW this year can't even come remotely close to the Danny Granger numbers of last year, WHO IS MW FOOLING but a bunch of fools.

Notice how the MW-heads don't even post any objective measure for MW equating to a success? From HOFer or perennial all-star to unlikely ever an all-star, and still we're supposed to perceive MW as a success and not an underachiever? They can move the goal post into the locker room and still move it less than how far they have lowered the expectations for MW. MW the greatest pedestrian level #2 pick of all time. Give me a break.

W

[Guest Walter]

Yes, Walter was hot for Yi last year and Patrick O'Bryant the year before. He was also crazy about Saer Sene too if memory serves me.

Lame.

Stick your repeated strawmen up your a** and bail some hay for the MW-heads to chew on.

I wanted Yi last year, yes. We'll see in 3 years. Wanted Brandon Roy at the time of the draft the year before (or a prospect big AND a Pg like Marcus, Rondo, or Sergio). Deron the year before. Deng (or Iggy the year before)...Dolfan, I don't need to strawman your dumbass drafting record. You'd think you'd stay away from that argument given your ineptitude.

[atlien]

Simple. The extent to which MW-heads are a baffoons. Not only does MW not compare to Deron, Paul, Bynum, hell, even Granger...His best season will never compare to their developing ones. That's the point. MW's BEST SEASON EVER will still be less than Deron's, Paul's, and Bynum's this year.

If MW this year can't even come remotely close to the Danny Granger numbers of last year, WHO IS MW FOOLING but a bunch of fools.

Notice how the MW-heads don't even post any objective measure for MW equating to a success? From HOFer or perennial all-star to unlikely ever an all-star, and still we're supposed to perceive MW as a success and not an underachiever? They can move the goal post into the locker room and still move it less than how far they have lowered the expectations for MW. MW the greatest pedestrian level #2 pick of all time. Give me a break.

W

My thing is, I don't think even the "MW-Heads" are saying he was the right pick (save for that one dude you just called out). I mean, at this point, it's pretty obvious that he shouldve gone in the 8-12 range in that draft.

I guess we have a difference of perspective here. I blame BK for taking Marvin waaaaay too high at 2 (and being a horrible evaluator of talent and passing on Paul and Deron). I don't blame Marvin for his draft position. Every player tries to get drafted as high as possible.

I just think this exercise tells us what we already know -- BK F'd up bad, very bad. He passed on the two greatest pgs of our generation when WE NEEDED A PG! It sucks.

I still think Marvin is a solid, but unspectacular starter.

[Guest Walter]

You don't think he will better his 3rd year production? You must not know how to understand trends since Marvin has clearly gotten better every year and the stats show that across the board. Why would he all of the sudden stop improving? What is your rationale for that?

MW didn't get better from his 2nd to his 1st year. He just played more. That is my rationale and it seems a d@mn good one. Great young players get better fast when given an opportunity. MW isn't even in the league of Danny Granger yet. Come on.

W

Edited August 18, 2008 by Walter

[atlien]

And just to clarify, in hindsight, that draft shouldve gone (IMO):

1. Chris Paul

2. Deron Williams

3. Andrew Bynum

4. Monta Ellis

5. Danny Granger

6. Jose Calderon (he was undrafted... got signed as a FA that summer)

7. Bogut

8. Marvin

9. David Lee

10. Felton

With Louis Williams and Blatche drafted much higher as well.

[Wurider05]

Lame.

Stick your repeated strawmen up your a** and bail some hay for the MW-heads to chew on.

I wanted Yi last year, yes. We'll see in 3 years. Wanted Brandon Roy at the time of the draft the year before (or a prospect big AND a Pg like Marcus, Rondo, or Sergio). Deron the year before. Deng (or Iggy the year before)...Dolfan, I don't need to strawman your dumbass drafting record. You'd think you'd stay away from that argument given your ineptitude.

Good thing you weren't GM Mr. Walter. I am not a Marvin head. I am just anti-a** clown. Another thing why does it take two post for you and your crew to make a simple point. I mean half the time you guys start a thread then 80 percent of the posts are the same clowns that started it. You my friend are a jerk to the highest degree. It is not that serious. All you do is sit around waiting on someone to say something so you can run back to the old threads and try and make them look stupid. Who seriously has time for that f***ing s***. Grow up and accept. Let's just say you are absolutely right about Marvin. DO YOU GET THE REST OF HIS ROOKIE CONTRACT???? WHAT CHANGES---NOTHING AT ALL HE STILL WILL BE SUITING UP THIS OCTOBER. GRANGER WON'T BE HERE, CP3 WON'T BE HERE, DERON WILLIAMS WON'T BE HERE BUT YOUR STUPID a** WILL BE STILL WHINING ABOUT A DRAFT THAT HAPPENED 3 YEARS AGO. Just like if you were GM last year you would have taken Yi and it would have been a mistake since Horford was a beast. But you won't admit that. As far as me being wrong about Marvin Williams. I don't even follow college basketball I didn't know who he was, I didn't know who Paul or Deron was. So how the hell was I wrong when i didn't even know who these guys were. I knew that we needed a pg as did everyone else. But when they signed JJ to be the pg everybody around here was cool with it. I want us to have the best team out there so we can compete and win a championship. I feel like whoever they bring into the fold will help us do that. In situations where I didn' t like the pick (Shelden) I still support my team. You guys are taking bitterness and whining to another level and it is quit disturbing.

[EazyRoc]

Ugh. This is tired.

Will Walter ever shut up about Marvin ? That's the real question.

It's like he's the only guy on our team you talk about. It almost seems like you have something personal against him.

[thefloydian]

This thread sucks.

[Traceman]

Lame.

Stick your repeated strawmen up your a** and bail some hay for the MW-heads to chew on.

I wanted Yi last year, yes. We'll see in 3 years. Wanted Brandon Roy at the time of the draft the year before (or a prospect big AND a Pg like Marcus, Rondo, or Sergio). Deron the year before. Deng (or Iggy the year before)...Dolfan, I don't need to strawman your dumbass drafting record. You'd think you'd stay away from that argument given your ineptitude.

1) The Hawks realizing they need and still lack a superstar, get the 7' super-skilled 19 y/o player with the biggest upside and most potential in Bargnani by trading up (i.e. #5 pick, Childress, and 2nd rder for Portland's #4 pick - if Barg. falls to there - and Portland's choice of Pg prospect between Jack and Telfair).

2) The Hawks, realizing that with a trade down to 12 and 15 (potentially a second trade with Seattle to move up 2 or 5 and have the 10th pick) they could get Marcus Williams and either O'Bryant or Sene, prefer to get a proven Pg and project center potentially filling two positional and skill (interior defense and team leader) needs in one draft. They wait to make such a move when Marcus Williams is available at 12 if both center prospects are available, perhaps making it with another Pg prospect in mind.

Staying at 5 or draft Shelden, while it somewhat addresses interior defense (remember Shelden got scored on quite a bit at Duke) doesn't solve a positional problem (what #2 does in spades) and doesn't reduce the need for superstar potential (what #1 does in spades).

Should we stay and Aldridge or Roy is available that is passable. Still the ideals are 1 & 2 as I see them.

W

Remember that post of yours right before the draft? Yeah, you though Roy was "passable" with the 5th pick if we couldn't trade #5, CHILLZ & a 2nd rounder for your boy Bargnani. Bottom line, you would have traded ROY, CHILLZ & a 2nd for Bargnani & Telfair (or Jack)! OMG! :doh:

In addition, you kept insisting that Chris Paul was too small and you posted all these meaningless stats (just as you are doing now) to support your lame argument. You wanted Bogut over Paul and you insisted Paul would never be anything in the NBA. OOPS!

As for Yi, yeah, we will see. That's the same thing you said about Bargnani by the way.

Edited August 19, 2008 by Traceman

[Packfill]

My thing is, I don't think even the "MW-Heads" are saying he was the right pick (save for that one dude you just called out). I mean, at this point, it's pretty obvious that he shouldve gone in the 8-12 range in that draft.

I guess we have a difference of perspective here. I blame BK for taking Marvin waaaaay too high at 2 (and being a horrible evaluator of talent and passing on Paul and Deron). I don't blame Marvin for his draft position. Every player tries to get drafted as high as possible.

I just think this exercise tells us what we already know -- BK F'd up bad, very bad. He passed on the two greatest pgs of our generation when WE NEEDED A PG! It sucks.

I still think Marvin is a solid, but unspectacular starter.

Agreed.

[tmac13]

Whats your point. Noone here disagrees that Marvin was drafted too high. Everyone here wishes we had taken Deron or Paul. Whats your point???? We are not apologists because we want Marvin to become a better player. We are Hawks fans who want the team to improve. If Marvin improves the Hawks will be better. Its that damn simple..

When did you become such an a** Walter? You didn't use to throw insults at everyone like you do now. At least when Diesel rants about Marvin he keeps it civil. You sound like a pissed off 14 year old.

[Guest Walter]

Remember that post of yours right before the draft? Yeah, you though Roy was "passable" with the 5th pick if we couldn't trade #5, CHILLZ & a 2nd rounder for your boy Bargnani. Bottom line, you would have traded ROY, CHILLZ & a 2nd for Bargnani & Telfair (or Jack)! OMG! :doh:

In addition, you kept insisting that Chris Paul was too small and you posted all these meaningless stats (just as you are doing now) to support your lame argument. You wanted Bogut over Paul and you insisted Paul would never be anything in the NBA. OOPS!

As for Yi, yeah, we will see. That's the same thing you said about Bargnani by the way.

"Passable" meaning the best player available. Yes, I would have liked Barg. AND Aldridge (eh hem, see what Chillz got us, remember, I argued that WE COULD NOT AFFORD THEM -our yougnsters - ALL...accurate eh), or I would have traded for a prospect big AND a prospect Pg, but when the draft came and there was no deal I WANTED Roy. YOU wanted Shelden. Feel punked yet. Geeze. It's like arguing with BK about who has the better draft "record".

You thought SW was a good pick. I thought he was the worst possible pick (meaning certainly not "passable". No matter how hard you try, I ain't no kettle, pot.