Backup Minutes

[AHF]

We have seen a lot of posts this season about Flip and Acie. Some people have lauded them. Others have labeled them busts. Let's see where people stand today about our primary backup guards.

[Nicholasp27]

We have seen a lot of posts this season about Flip and Acie. Some people have lauded them. Others have labeled them busts. Let's see where people stand today about our primary backup guards.

Clearly we need to develop Acie...Bibby remains starter, but Acie needs at least 15mpg EVERY GAME and needs to be given permission to drive and not just hand the ball off once he reaches halfcourt

If Acie is told to drive drive drive, then we will win more and he will develop more...he's the kind of pg that needs to be a leader on the team, not an 8th guy...he won't perform like we want unless he's confident that he can be out there controlling and leading the team

[thefloydian]

Flip is awful. I used to like the guy when I didn't have to watch him every night, but jesus. Just stop making awful turnovers and shooting 3s with 20 on the shot clock.

Edited December 21, 2008 by thefloydian

[GST]

I don't understand what is going on with Acie. We know from last year that he can drive to the hole when he wants to. He's a pg, so just about every offensive possession he is going to have the ball in his hands. He ought to be making something happen even if he is in for only 1 or 2 offensive possessions a game. I just don't get it.

[DrReality]

It will eventually cost us to not have Acie ready. He has to get his minutes so he can produce on a consistent basis. Flip is a feel good guy when he is hot. When he is not, he tends to sap the offense.

[DChawk]

yeah these DNP's are baffling. Especially in game like today when you don't have a lot going on offense, he could really be a nice change of pace and possibly create some things in the lane. But we have absolutely no offensive game plan and I think we're seeing that it really hurts players who are not sure of their role. If you want to dominate the ball with this team then go right ahead... the other players will just go stand in the corner.

[Iman]

Woody is just stuck on the idea of a short bench. Only an injury or some player really stinking it up for a while will change the trend we are in, especially since we are winning.

Mo Evans has been playing poorly lately. If this continues and we lose a few games after the homestand ends then maybe Mo will lose his 6th man slot. If I were the coach, Acie and Zaza would be the first players off the bench even though I'd sub Marvin and Josh out first. Flip would specifically come in each time Joe was off the court so he could take Joe's shots.

[bronnt]

We have seen a lot of posts this season about Flip and Acie. Some people have lauded them. Others have labeled them busts. Let's see where people stand today about our primary backup guards.

I almost voted for option number five, but only because of the typo in the question that left Flip's name out.

Honestly, I feel like in most games, we'd be better off with Mario West playing Flip's minutes. Once every 2 weeks he has a good night shooting.

[jhay610]

I don't understand what is going on with Acie. We know from last year that he can drive to the hole when he wants to. He's a pg, so just about every offensive possession he is going to have the ball in his hands. He ought to be making something happen even if he is in for only 1 or 2 offensive possessions a game. I just don't get it.

You would think this would be the case but if you pay attention to Woody's *cough* *cough* scheme you will notice that when AC is in the game with flip, flip is the primary ballhandler and the (un)facilitator of the offense.

AC is much more effective with the ball in his hands; he tends to drift away from the ball and is not a good enough shooter to be playing what amounts to the 2 position which is what he does quite often now.

He has shown he can bring some things that this team is sorely lacking in and I feel he should be getting more mins so we can evaluate our needs for the PG spot going forward.

I have said all along that Flip should get the first look off the bench but if he is out there screwing the pooch (and when Flip is bad, he's baaaaaaaaaad) we should give AC the larger chunk of the minutes. The iso-Flip offense is a bad idea most of the time.

Flip can be instant offense and our 2nd unit needs that scoring punch but AC has the ability to break a D down and get good looks for others around him. His skill set makes him a much better fit to be running with the starters when Bibby needs a blow.

We all know Woody loves to ride his vets but we really need AC to get more time. This will benefit in both the long and the short-term.

[AHF]

I almost voted for option number five, but only because of the typo in the question that left Flip's name out.

Oops.

:eek:

[Chris18]

I really don't think you can play Flip less minutes right now but Mo is a different story.

[bronnt]

Oops.

:eek:

It's cool. I think I've done the exact same thing before. :hush:

[Cwell]

I picked the 3rd one. All I ask for is a consistent 20 minutes a night for Acie,at the very least 17 minutes. There is no reason for Flip to be playing all these minutes even though he's horrible 9 times out of 10, while Acie gets pulled if he steps wrong. Flip can ball hog,take 5 bad shots,go 1 for 4 has 3 quick TO's and stay in the game for 8 minutes at a time. Yet Acie gets pulled if he commits one TO or foul.Even if he plays extrememly well and is out there making play after play he still gets pulled. It makes no sense. It really reminds me of Jason Webster and Jim Mora.

Edited December 22, 2008 by Cwell

[frosgrim]

I voted #3, but in reality Law has to be traded for a vet.

Its obvious that Woodson has no interest in developing anyone else at this point in time. Acie is just going to waste away on the Hawks bench. Thus, the team is just better off getting a vet PG so that at least the team has a legit back up for injuy. When Bibby/Flip get injured, the Hawks are going to be in deep trouble because Woodson's steadfast refusal to give the bench minutes.

Since Woodson liked Lue so much, Sund might as well try to get him back in a Hawks uni. :brick wall:

[coachx]

Here is my 2 cents !

Bibby should get between 30 and 35 minutes per game on average. Bibby's shot is so streaky and his defense is below average. B/c of this you should not pencil him down for X amount of minutes each night. When his shot is not falling or quicker PGs like (Paul, Rondo, Harris, Parker) are having their way with him his minutes go down to 25 - 30 minutes a game as long as Law / Flip are picking up the defensive slack. However, when Bibby's shot is falling (like vs. the Pistons) you keep him in 35 - 38 minutes.

That leaves 13 - 23 minutes of backup PG duty every night. I believe it should ALL go to Law. I also believe Flip needs a consistent 12 mpg to back up JJ at SG. If Flip gets hot fine. Shift JJ down to SF so Flip can stay on the floor when he's hot. There is no need to play JJ more then 36 minutes per game on average. Its obvious he gets wore down from watching him in pevious seasons.

Now there are times where we can go small and play Bibby and Law together with JJ at SF. After all, Marvin has been getting at least 10 minutes per night at PF.

9 man rotation:

Bibby 33 / Law 15

JJ 36 / Flip 12

Marvin 24 / Evans 20 / JJ or Smith get 4 minutes at SF depending on matchup

Smoove 36 / Marvin 12 / We can go big and give Horford a few PF minutes too.

Horford 36 / ZaZa 12 / of course Hordord will be in foul trouble some nights where his minutes will go down and ZaZa or Solo's go up.

Granted this is tweaked by a few mpg depending on who's hot and matchups but I like these mpg averages as a whole by position. When Bibby's hot he has to play ! when he is cold and getting killed on defense he has to sit more. Sounds easy but its as simple as that.

I would also love to see Bibby and Law develop some chemistry. when Bibby is hot, Law can drive and get guys open for perimeter shots (like he did for Murray vs. the Celtics). Bibby, JJ, abd Marvin can all get some great looks of Law's dribble drive penetration.

Marvin was complaining that Bibby was not shooting enough in the 1st half vs. the Pistons when he went 5-5. We know Bibby can struggle to get his own shot, especailly vs. a guy like Stuckey who is bigger and quicker.......Well, Law would have "faned the fire" by driving the lane and kicking out to Bibby for more open looks !

Edited December 22, 2008 by coachx

[mrhonline]

Flip is by far the Hawks' best defender at the 1.

I have no problem with playing him and Law together, but I understand Woodson wanting to rely on Flip. He's a proven veteran.

[Cwell]

Flip is by far the Hawks' best defender at the 1.

I have no problem with playing him and Law together, but I understand Woodson wanting to rely on Flip. He's a proven veteran.

yeah he's proven he can't be depended on. and he's proven that he's a journey man for a reason.

[Guest]

The wording in this poll makes it so skewed to where everyone wants option 3. "Developing Acie" is the key phrase that makes people think we have to put Acie in the game for 15 minutes and also give priority over Flip.

Why not a priority of Flip over Acie but still "developing Acie" to keep the homers happy? Yeah Flip's offense can make you mad, but he is our best defender at the 1 and isn't the main philosophy of our team to defend?

[coachx]

Flip is by far the Hawks' best defender at the 1.

That is debateable. He is no doubt better then Bibby defensively but I don't see any seperation between him and Law from a defensive standpoint.

[frosgrim]

The wording in this poll makes it so skewed to where everyone wants option 3. "Developing Acie" is the key phrase that makes people think we have to put Acie in the game for 15 minutes and also give priority over Flip.

Why not a priority of Flip over Acie but still "developing Acie" to keep the homers happy? Yeah Flip's offense can make you mad, but he is our best defender at the 1 and isn't the main philosophy of our team to defend?

Law has shown he can stay in front of the Rondos of the NBA. Neither Flip or Bibby can do that. Hence, Law is the best defensive pG on the team. Problem is that Woodson won't play the development game any more because he knows his job is on the line. The ASG really screwed up by giving Woody that 2 year, low pay, deal. If they were serious about keeping Woody, then they should have given him a long-term deal. If they wanted to fire him, then they shouldn't have re-signed him.

I place a lot of the problems with Wooodson's rotation at the feet of the ASG who are indecisive and have led Woody to playing a short bench early in the season to boost win totals.