To me, it is sad that this board can't admit

[Peoriabird]

Everybody wants to come up with the same lame excuses like

1. Joe is a ball hog and shoots a low field goal percentage!

While true especially last night with Bibby being the hottest player on the floor, Joe chose to continue to force his shot rather than pass to a frequently wide open Bibby. I think that this happens because Joe doesn't look to facilitate on most trip but to score unless he has someone like Bobby Jackson single covering him of course :thumbsupsmileyanim: But Joe has been doing this the whole season and its not going to change.

2. Marvin does demand the ball and drive it enough. He tend to disappear during game!

Hopefully it has became obvious to people that watch and understand basketball that this is not the design of the Hawks offense. The Hawks offense is Joe dribbles around for 16 seconds and looks for Bibby if the double team comes. Other players are the designated spot up shooters including Smith :shock11: And that just how it is period! Sure everyone gets their chance at posting up occasionally but the main offense is dribble dribble missed jump shot. Now if we had someone who would clean the glass and put the missed shot back in, this would be the perfect offense but we don't.

3. Al Horford doesn't have very good offensive skills!

Again, this may be true but so what? Even if he did have great offensive skills, you would see them in this offense. You could easily win games with Horford as is.

4. Woodson is a terrible coach and we will never win with him!

Offensively it is just ridiculous. Every game I've hoped that we'd come out and actually attack another team's weakness defensively as though we had looked at some game film and come up with a plan but the first possession always lets you know otherwise. The other team could have Hall of fame perimeter defenders and no interior defense but our approach on offense remains the same. They could have Shaq trying to defend the pick and roll but yet we would not even run it. I could go on for days and it is a problem but we do score 98 points per game.

5. Our bench is terrible other than flip

Somewhat true! I don't think that our bench is as bad as people think. Mo Evan is trying to unseat josh Smith as the dumbest player on the team but the bench doesn't hurt the team that much.

6. We need a defense Big.

Yeah, we probably do but even a defensive big is not going to prevent our weak perimeter defenders from getting abused like Joe and Smith got abused last night. But we are getting warmer!

Now here is our problem in a nutshell!

Our starting power forward has been averaging fewer than 3 rebounds per game since the all star break while allowing the the opposing power forward to average more than 13 rpg. :cant believe: Think about it, that is an extra 10 possessions per game for our opponents right there! Maybe this is not a big deal to you but it is to me! 10 extra possession could mean 20 or more extra points. Now, I know the excuse wagon is going to come rolling out for Smith like he has a bad ankle and that is why he can't box out but yet he can block shots on that same ankle. Wake up Hawk squawkers! This is our problem! Until the Hawk's starting power forward start to out rebound his opponent, they will struggle to win games! :saythat:

[bronnt]

So why were we struggling before the all-star break?

[Peoriabird]

So why were we struggling before the all-star break?

I think that Injuries played some part but I'm not sure :hush: but mainly Joe had a terrible January. But you knew this already right?

[DChawk]

I agree with this to an extent, though I see Josh's rebounding as just part of a bigger problem: we're just not that good of a defensive team. We lack the focus of that is required to be a force on D. We ball watch more and more every game (every open 3 the Blazers hit last night was b/c of ball watching) which leads to not being able to find your man to box out when the shot goes up. Also, I appreciate Josh's shot blocking ability, but the fact is when you're getting a lot of weak-side blocks your usually leaving your man wide open under the basket (remember how bad a rebounder Ratliff was??). Also, as mentioned on Sekou's last blog, our forwards tend to float around the perimeter on offense which leaves only Horf or Zaza under the basket when the shot goes up. This is why Childress was so great; he was a SF/SG that attacked the glass because he wasn't sitting on the 3 point line waiting for a pass (mostly b/c he couldn't make it if he tried... but at least he recognized that).

The fact that Woodson bills himself as a defensive coach makes me think he needs to go. If we're going to be a mediocre defensive team then we might as well get a coach that takes better advantage of our offensive weapons. I love Josh, but to me, among the starters, he's the most frequent violator of losing focus. I think moving him for someone like Biedrins this offseason and moving Al to the 4 would make us a significantly better defensive team. I have reservations about what that would do to our offensive production in the paint, but that hasn't been winning us any games recently.

I think Joe is one of our best defenders, but you can see him getting worse and worse as the game goes on. You just can't expect a guy to play that many minutes, carry us on offense and still be effective on D at the end of the game.

With the way this team's been playing defense I just don't see the rationale of keeping Woody around. I hope this is just a bad stretch, but that's looking less and less likely every game.

[AtLaS]

I think moving him for someone like Biedrins this offseason and moving Al to the 4 would make us a significantly better defensive team. I have reservations about what that would do to our offensive production in the paint, but that hasn't been winning us any games recently.

If you want to trade Smith, please suggest someone better than Biedrins. This is PURELY a grass being greener case. Biedrins isn't even a good defender and he's worse offensively than Horford. Sure he's a better rebounder but that's about it.

We know Woody sucks.

The bottom line is that we are DEFINITELY talented enough to compete with the top teams. But, when our best scorer shoots 35% going on 2 months now and Smith won't rebound, we aren't going to beat good teams. Period. If JJ gets back to playing at an all-star level we will be fine. I'm not AS worried about Smith because he's been playing awesome recently save the last 3 games, JJ has sucked for 2 months.

[smithrules]

I agree with this to an extent, though I see Josh's rebounding as just part of a bigger problem: we're just not that good of a defensive team. We lack the focus of that is required to be a force on D. We ball watch more and more every game (every open 3 the Blazers hit last night was b/c of ball watching) which leads to not being able to find your man to box out when the shot goes up. Also, I appreciate Josh's shot blocking ability, but the fact is when you're getting a lot of weak-side blocks your usually leaving your man wide open under the basket (remember how bad a rebounder Ratliff was??). Also, as mentioned on Sekou's last blog, our forwards tend to float around the perimeter on offense which leaves only Horf or Zaza under the basket when the shot goes up. This is why Childress was so great; he was a SF/SG that attacked the glass because he wasn't sitting on the 3 point line waiting for a pass (mostly b/c he couldn't make it if he tried... but at least he recognized that).

The fact that Woodson bills himself as a defensive coach makes me think he needs to go. If we're going to be a mediocre defensive team then we might as well get a coach that takes better advantage of our offensive weapons. I love Josh, but to me, among the starters, he's the most frequent violator of losing focus. I think moving him for someone like Biedrins this offseason and moving Al to the 4 would make us a significantly better defensive team. I have reservations about what that would do to our offensive production in the paint, but that hasn't been winning us any games recently.

I think Joe is one of our best defenders, but you can see him getting worse and worse as the game goes on. You just can't expect a guy to play that many minutes, carry us on offense and still be effective on D at the end of the game.

With the way this team's been playing defense I just don't see the rationale of keeping Woody around. I hope this is just a bad stretch, but that's looking less and less likely every game.

When Al was out smith was grabbing more rebounds. Its the way our defensive and offesive schemes work guys! All the switching on defense and you see bibby in the post alot! and woodys offense alot of time the PF is at the FT line or above. Plus the ISO joe leaves people standing. All our problems revolve around coaching even JJ's cold shooting. Coaching is also mental its not just x and o just ask phil jackon

[DChawk]

If you want to trade Smith, please suggest someone better than Biedrins. This is PURELY a grass being greener case. Biedrins isn't even a good defender and he's worse offensively than Horford. Sure he's a better rebounder but that's about it.

We know Woody sucks.

The bottom line is that we are DEFINITELY talented enough to compete with the top teams. But, when our best scorer shoots 35% going on 2 months now and Smith won't rebound, we aren't going to beat good teams. Period. If JJ gets back to playing at an all-star level we will be fine. I'm not AS worried about Smith because he's been playing awesome recently save the last 3 games, JJ has sucked for 2 months.

Not really sure how much better of a player you're gonna get for Josh. Biedrins is averaging 13 and 12 and shooting 55% from the field. Sure he's limited offensively and under weight but he's 22 years old. I'd love to get someone like Bosh or Amare, but there's not a good chance of that. And I'm not pushing that hard for him to be traded, just sick of his up and down play.

And, yeah, Joe's sucked lately, but our defense is the reason we've looked so bad.

[Peoriabird]

Also, I appreciate Josh's shot blocking ability, but the fact is when you're getting a lot of weak-side blocks your usually leaving your man wide open under the basket (remember how bad a rebounder Ratliff was??).

Josh has been the target of teams on offense. It has been his man that has posted him up, missed the shot, and beat him to the ball to get an offensive rebound. Lamar Odoms did it, and Aldridge did it last night. And all 3 of these guys combined to average 7 rebounds per game against everyone else

Edited February 21, 2009 by Peoriabird

[AtLaS]

Not really sure how much better of a player you're gonna get for Josh. Biedrins is averaging 13 and 12 and shooting 55% from the field. Sure he's limited offensively and under weight but he's 22 years old.

That's on the fastest paced team in the NBA. Many more opportunities to rebound on that team. Trust me, Biedrins can do nothing offensively, he has no post up or face up game whatsoever. He has no midrange game to speak of and he's an abysmal free throw shooter. If you think Josh is a bad shooter, look out. Put him on an average paced team and those numbers are more like 8 and 8.

And, yeah, Joe's sucked lately, but our defense is the reason we've looked so bad.

Our offense has been just as big a reason.

[Peoriabird]

Our offense has been just as big a reason.

Our offense is rank 15th in points per game at 98.7 even with our bad free throw shooting. Which is better than the Chris Paul led hornets!

[AHF]

Unless we can get a star, I would change the coach before unloading Smoove.

[AtLaS]

Our offense is rank 15th in points per game at 98.7 even with our bad free throw shooting. Which is better than the Chris Paul led hornets!

That doesn't matter, our offense could be MUCH better. You're cool with JJ shooting 35% and constantly missing wide open shots? Or, not running the PnR when we have one of the best PnR PGs in the NBA?

The fact that we are ONLY 15th in PPG is just horrible and really shows the lack of coaching we have on this team.

[Peoriabird]

You're cool with JJ shooting 35% and constantly missing wide open shots?

Are you cool with your power forward averaging fewer than 3 rebounds per game? Shooting comes and goes but effort is something that players control. Could Joe's shot selection improve? absolutely! Could our offense score more points with the right system? absolutely! But not getting one rebound in a game while you allow a guy to get 20 when he normally averages 7.5 is inexcusable period!

[AtLaS]

Are you cool with your power forward averaging fewer than 3 rebounds per game? Shooting comes and goes but effort is something that players control. Could Joe's shot selection improve? absolutely! Could our offense score more points with the right system? absolutely! But not getting one rebound in a game while you allow a guy to get 20 when he normally averages 7.5 is inexcusable period!

We were talking about offense, not how many rebounds Smith has gotten the last 3 games. I agree, Smith has played like crap the past 3. JJ has sucked for 2 months and that is our biggest problem, along with not playing to our strengths which is a coaching problem. Yet as you said we are still 15th in PPG and I know we're top 10 in offensive efficiency. That right there tells how much offensive potential we have if JJ could actually make something and we ran the PnR more. We could easily be a top 5 offense.

[DChawk]

Unless we can get a star, I would change the coach before unloading Smoove.

I agree. It's just insanely frustrating to watch him go from dominating to playing w/ no intensity whatsoever. whatever it's been discussed endlessly on this board. The main point of my post was how unfocused this team looks on D in stretches. I can't even count how many times I saw them just staring at the man w/ the ball and slowly getting sucked in while their man was wide open waiting for the open shot.

That's on the fastest paced team in the NBA. Many more opportunities to rebound on that team. Trust me, Biedrins can do nothing offensively, he has no post up or face up game whatsoever. He has no midrange game to speak of and he's an abysmal free throw shooter. If you think Josh is a bad shooter, look out. Put him on an average paced team and those numbers are more like 8 and 8.

He also only plays 31 minutes a game. His per is above 20 at the moment. That's top 5 for centers. I don't actually believe Biedris is better than Josh when both are at their best, but he's a good rebounder and a center who would move Al to the 4. As mentioned above though, I'd be nice to see Josh play under a better coach first.

[Wurider05]

When Al was out smith was grabbing more rebounds. Its the way our defensive and offesive schemes work guys! All the switching on defense and you see bibby in the post alot! and woodys offense alot of time the PF is at the FT line or above. Plus the ISO joe leaves people standing. All our problems revolve around coaching even JJ's cold shooting. Coaching is also mental its not just x and o just ask phil jackon

Damn dude you made a very good point. I actually noticed that myself.

[TroyMcClure]

Unless we can get a star, I would change the coach before unloading Smoove.

The problem with that, is that we'd still have the same coach. A star, even a superstar can only drag dead weight so far. Smoove isn't a problem. The dynamic of Smoove and Joe is a problem, though.

[AHF]

The problem with that, is that we'd still have the same coach.

I think there may be a typo here - are you saying we'd still have the same players so a coaching change wouldn't make a significant difference?

[TroyMcClure]

I think there may be a typo here - are you saying we'd still have the same players so a coaching change wouldn't make a significant difference?

Kind of. Say we somehow got an Amare for Smoove or something. Woody still couldn't take them anywhere. Getting a superstar would only be like slapping paint on rotted wood. The ultimate goal will always be out of reach while he is in charge.

I've said for years that this team had talent. I think the 13 win team could have won twice as many if they didn't have Woody.

[EazyRoc]

I think for the way some our key players have been playing, Woodson is doing a decent job. This team is not constructed (mentally, physically, or skill-wise) for deep runs in the playoffs, so we won't get to where we want to be unless we change our roster up. I think Woodson is a better coach than quite a few that still have jobs, but he just has to have the perfect team (a la Doc Rivers) to go all the way. It's clear and plain as day that he needs a veteran team.