Who's Team Is It?

[AHF]

Good post. The one difference about complaining to the refs in regards to Smoove and the HOF's listed above is just that....those guys earned that right in some fashion, through their accomplishments as individuals or through their respected teams. Smoove and the Hawks have done neither.

Those guys also did not blow plays while complaining to the refs. They didn't miss a play but still got their complaints in.

[crimedog]

Those guys also did not blow plays while complaining to the refs. They didn't miss a play but still got their complaints in.

Not sure if that's verifiable... I'm sure I've seen Kobe get back late because he was complaining.

Don't get me wrong, its a pain in the *ss to see him constantly complaining. I just think its ridiculous that people point to that as a sign of inability to be a leader when there are so many other things he does that the great "leaders" of the game don't do almost catergorically (stupid shot selection and failure to box out being my most grievous complaints).

[buckeye242424]

Not sure if that's verifiable... I'm sure I've seen Kobe get back late because he was complaining.

Don't get me wrong, its a pain in the *ss to see him constantly complaining. I just think its ridiculous that people point to that as a sign of inability to be a leader when there are so many other things he does that the great "leaders" of the game don't do almost catergorically (stupid shot selection and failure to box out being my most grievous complaints).

I think it's decision making and basketball IQ that is holding Smoove back. Not entirely his fault, he hasn't had a great learning tool as a HC. It is just my opinion, but watching Smoove play, he just doesn't seem to understand the game very well. There's a reason why, and I'm sure it's not with me, but whenever Smoove has the ball in his hands - leading a fast break, or in the half court, I'm always holding my breath. I'm either waiting for a horrific turnover, or a spectacular play. There's no middle ground with him. No consistency.

I want to feel comfortable when the so called "leader" has the ball. I want to know that the majority of the time, good things happen when the "leader" is instigating the plays. I just don't feel Smoove can fill that void, lead by example. Not yet anyway....

[hawksrule9]

I would rather this team be built around Joe Johnson than Josh Smith. Joe Johnson is a stub. Yes, he was off in the playoffs but I truly blame that on double teams because nobody else is a true threat! Josh Smith should play at the SF position and spend the entire offseason on driving to the lane, not taking as many jumpers, and playing better defence. He has to step up the d, he is lazy! If seen him just let people drive by, not step in the lane to contest a dunk, and he watches men shoot a jumper. These is what needs to be done for this team to join the elite in the NBA:

First Option

1. Keep the coaching staff intact! I hat hearing people bash Woodson for his offense. You move a couple people over and add a good big man and the offense changes!

2. Let Mike Bibby walk and sign Carlos Boozer.

3. Sign and trade Marvin Williams and add Josh Childress and Speedy in to get a sold back up big man or a solid draft pick.

4. Draft a Point Guard.

5. Sign Flip Murray, Zaza Pachulia. Let Mario go. We can get a better offensive player who can play d.

6. Sign Chris Anderson.

PG - Acie Law/ Flip Murray/ Draft Pick - Acie could be good with confidence. Can run with Smith and can drive like the best.

SG - Joe Johnson - Double teams would be called off and he could be the confortable Joe and not be the only one to rely on.

SF - Josh Smith - Would match up better on defense and could take his opponent to the hole.

PF - Al Horford - Would average another 2 rebounds per game at this position and another 2 to 4 ppg as well.

C - Carlos Boozer - Would help elevate the pressure on Joe. Would be that one more good player we need.

- Flip Murray - Instant offensive production off the bench.

- Mo Evans - Brind in for Joe or Josh to play solid D.

- Chris Anderson - Would be that scrappy aggresive compliment to Smith.

- Zaza Pachulia - Love his heart.

- Vladimir Radmanovic - Nice Shooting Big Man that can score.

Second Option

1. Keep coaching staff.

2. Let Mike Bibby walk and sign Allen Iverson

3. Sign and trade Marvin Williams and add Josh Childress and Speedy for Marcus Camby and draft pick.

4. Draft Point Guard

5. Sign Flip Murray, Zaza Pachulia. Let Mario Go.

6. Sign Chris Anderson

PG - Allen Iverson - Would help elevate the pressure on Joe. Would be that one more good player we need.

SG - Joe Johnson - Double teams would be called off and he could be the confortable Joe and not be the only one to rely on.

SF - Josh Smith - Would match up better on defense and could take his opponent to the hole.

PF - Al Horford - Would average another 2 rebounds per game at this position and another 2 to 4 ppg as well.

C - Marcus Camby - Nice tough big man that crashs hard and swats shots!

- Flip Murray - Instant offensive production off the bench.

- Mo Evans - Brind in for Joe or Josh to play solid D.

- Chris Anderson - Would be that scrappy aggresive compliment to Smith.

- Zaza Pachulia - Love his heart.

- Vladimir Radmanovic - Nice Shooting Big Man that can score.

[mattlanta]

It's not Smith's team because he has no leadership quality. Whenever you constantly clash with your coach, you cannot be a leader. The true leader of this team, according to the players themselves, is Joe Johnson.

[crimedog]

It's not Smith's team because he has no leadership quality. Whenever you constantly clash with your coach, you cannot be a leader. The true leader of this team, according to the players themselves, is Joe Johnson.

Magic Johnson says "hi"

Look, I don't disagree that Josh shouldn't be the leader... Joe obviously isn't a true leader either... but PLENTY of great players who are considered "leaders" have had clashes with their coaches and in many cases driven them away. Kidd comes to mind. Kobe had a diss book written about him by the greatest coach ever. Wilt's coaches were a dime a dozen because to him, they didn't matter. Listen to Shaq talk about his old coach...

[thescout5]

Magic Johnson says "hi"

Look, I don't disagree that Josh shouldn't be the leader... Joe obviously isn't a true leader either... but PLENTY of great players who are considered "leaders" have had clashes with their coaches and in many cases driven them away. Kidd comes to mind. Kobe had a diss book written about him by the greatest coach ever. Wilt's coaches were a dime a dozen because to him, they didn't matter. Listen to Shaq talk about his old coach...

I am not sure you can make a leader you are born with it. Both JJ and Smith are passive when it comes to leadership which is why if the team doesn't get a real leader like Kidd or perhaps Andre Miller then they'll never learn what it takes to win in the playoffs against elite teams. After awhile it gets real old losing year after year not that were at that point yet and believe me I appreciate making the playoffs than not. The Celtics have a 3 headed monster in Allen,Garnett, and Pierce plus one of the better guards in Rondo. The Hawks need a talent upgrade if they want to challenge for a championship and that starts with leaders which Smoove and JJ are not.

[crimedog]

The Hawks need a talent upgrade if they want to challenge for a championship and that starts with leaders which Smoove and JJ are not.

I think you are on point with the talent upgrade thing. The thing that is holding us back isn't the lack of leadership as much as the lack of talent... or at least development of talent to this point. There was no way we were getting past Cleveland regardless of how good our leadership was. They are a much much much better team than us and laying the blame at the feet of the best players on the team doesn't change the fact that we didn't stand a chance regardless.

[thescout5]

I think you are on point with the talent upgrade thing. The thing that is holding us back isn't the lack of leadership as much as the lack of talent... or at least development of talent to this point. There was no way we were getting past Cleveland regardless of how good our leadership was. They are a much much much better team than us and laying the blame at the feet of the best players on the team doesn't change the fact that we didn't stand a chance regardless.

If you look at great teams they had the Magic Johnson's,Bird's,Jordan's that would get on people if your not doing your job. Can we really say there is anyone on the Hawks team than the coach that does this? You need a coach that wants results but you do need on the floor leaders. I am not saying you need a Jordan,Johnson,Bird their very rare to get but that mentality in a player who hates to lose and will get on other people to get their job done.

[AHF]

Not sure if that's verifiable... I'm sure I've seen Kobe get back late because he was complaining.

Don't get me wrong, its a pain in the *ss to see him constantly complaining. I just think its ridiculous that people point to that as a sign of inability to be a leader when there are so many other things he does that the great "leaders" of the game don't do almost catergorically (stupid shot selection and failure to box out being my most grievous complaints).

That's fair. I certainly overstated it for emphasis. Kobe and others I am talking about have blown plays complaining. Josh, however, does seem to lose his composure and concentration after bad calls more than those players, IMO.

[MaceCase]

Leadership is not reserved for your best players, leadership is a quality that you can exert and is not dependent on your skills. How many players in this league like Derek Fischer, Antonio Mcdyss, Eric Snow and even Deke lead their team mates yet aren't the best players on their club? Fact of the matter is there are tons of guys in this league that can inspire a team just through their work effort and their professionalism on and off the court. They don't need to be firebrands either, they can have a stone cold reserve but when they speak others fall in. As it is Joe is that quiet leader but hey if the team witnesses Josh all summer working on a post game and jump shot they won't question him complaining on the court because he's shown that dedication and commitment.

[PureGreatness]

Leadership is not reserved for your best players, leadership is a quality that you can exert and is not dependent on your skills. How many players in this league like Derek Fischer, Antonio Mcdyss, Eric Snow and even Deke lead their team mates yet aren't the best players on their club? Fact of the matter is there are tons of guys in this league that can inspire a team just through their work effort and their professionalism on and off the court. They don't need to be firebrands either, they can have a stone cold reserve but when they speak others fall in. As it is Joe is that quiet leader but hey if the team witnesses Josh all summer working on a post game and jump shot they won't question him complaining on the court because he's shown that dedication and commitment.

cosign this

also what i also mean by "who team is it" its who is the offense gonna build around? thats why i say josh. but as far being a leader MaCeCase put it best.

[thescout5]

Leadership is not reserved for your best players, leadership is a quality that you can exert and is not dependent on your skills. How many players in this league like Derek Fischer, Antonio Mcdyss, Eric Snow and even Deke lead their team mates yet aren't the best players on their club? Fact of the matter is there are tons of guys in this league that can inspire a team just through their work effort and their professionalism on and off the court. They don't need to be firebrands either, they can have a stone cold reserve but when they speak others fall in. As it is Joe is that quiet leader but hey if the team witnesses Josh all summer working on a post game and jump shot they won't question him complaining on the court because he's shown that dedication and commitment.

You have a point but if you notice the teams that consistently win not only have the role players but top players who are leaders. Koebe,Lebron,Magic,Bird,Jordan,Kidd,Garnett,Deron Williams,Chris Paul types. Interesting you mentioned D Fischer,Mcdyss,Snow,Deke their leaders has role players and have changed uniforms a few times. Kidd has also but if you get a leader who is also one of the top players you have both ingredients. Joe and Smith are to much into themselves to be the Kobe,Lebron type of leaders. Half the time Smith isn't in position and Joe is quiet has a mouse this playoff series.

[jhay610]

Nah...

Joe is not a problem. Just because he's not kobe doesn't mean that he's a problem. Joe spent most of the playoffs in a doubleteam whereas our coaches wisdom said do not double their star. Joe has fire, he just doesn't have the ability to put this whole team on his shoulders. He's not Nique. But hell, who is? It takes a really selfish player to do what Nique did. For all of you all who are re-writing the times with Nique and giving people the glorified version, let me be the true dispenser here. Nique was just about everything that Kobe has been accused of being. Nique was a ball hog. I remember, we used to talk about "Niquing" the ball on the hardtops. Nique didn't play defense. When Jordan would come to town, they'd have their on little dunk contest and Nique would wait at the top of the key so he can be first down on the break. Nique didn't pass much. What really made Nique, Moses, and Theus fail was the fact that Nique would need to share the ball and Moses was just as big a ball hog as Nique. However, the good that came out of it was that Nique never feared the pressure of being the man and that Nique crushed double teams (until he got old and he and Kevin Willis would shoot threes). Smitty wasn't that... and JJ won't be that. JJ has done more for this team than Smitty did. Smitty never was the leader of this team like JJ has had to be. Smitty didn't get constantly doubled. First and foremost, we ran a motion offense during the Smitty years and Mookie was always there to be primary scorer.

So we don't have to blow up the team and trade away our three time allstar to be good. We need to get a complimentary scorer (preferably a post player)... because your idea to build around Horf, Marvin??? That will fail. You have to realize, we didn't get all of those picks for them to be franchise players. Some of them, we knew would be used to attract better players. Joe has a place on this team as long as he wants to be here!

This is one of the few times I've agreed with you. Well said. Chutch.

Edited May 15, 2009 by jhay610

[crimedog]

You have a point but if you notice the teams that consistently win not only have the role players but top players who are leaders. Koebe,Lebron,Magic,Bird,Jordan,Kidd,Garnett,Deron Williams,Chris Paul types. Interesting you mentioned D Fischer,Mcdyss,Snow,Deke their leaders has role players and have changed uniforms a few times. Kidd has also but if you get a leader who is also one of the top players you have both ingredients. Joe and Smith are to much into themselves to be the Kobe,Lebron type of leaders. Half the time Smith isn't in position and Joe is quiet has a mouse this playoff series.

What makes Kobe a good leader? Nothing - he's an unsupportive d*ck to his teammates. What he is, is a much much much better player than either guy we have and that definitely helps because it makes a more clearly defined pecking order.

[AHF]

What makes Kobe a good leader? Nothing - he's an unsupportive d*ck to his teammates. What he is, is a much much much better player than either guy we have and that definitely helps because it makes a more clearly defined pecking order.

Nice post.

[TroyMcClure]

I think we need to see Joe with complimentary scorers and better coaching before we can make that declaration.

You're talking about Joe. A guy who takes on the other team 1 on 5 with No screen. NO FREAKIN SCREEN. He tries to dribble in traffic and beat two men for scores??? How freakin ludicrous is that??

Unlike Kobe, he doesn't have a Gasol or a Mo Williams or a Oneal... I wouldn't put them on their level but at the same time, if you gave Kobe, Wade, or Lebron our team and our coaching plans.. I would like to see what they come up with. Remember... No screen.

You're acting like Joe doesn't want to do that. I guarantee, if he put his finger down, pointing for a pick... it would come. We don't have an offense. We let Joe dribble until he decides to do something.

[HAWKSFAN89]

Honestly.... I want it to be Smooves team. I love JJ but he isn't vocal enough, he's too quiet to be a leader. Smoove is vocal and very energetic. Plus he has more star appeal IN MY OPINION.

[Frenzy]

Let me just say this...

I've read your post, but to answer your title...

Josh Smith is too unstable to build a team around. He lacks the maturity and the BBIQ to be built around. Not going to college and having a coach who is not a natural teacher has really left Josh to learn how to play on his playstation. That's why he lacks patience. That's why he believes that he's right most of the time. He defiantly shoots the ill advised shot because he believes he's right to shoot it. He needs an overhaul. That means new coaching, new role, attitude adjustment, but most importantly, he needs to be taught the game.

lmao....