Francoeur will be gone soon.

[KB21]

I wish he would package shaefer and Medlen for a prospect. Medlen should've stayed in the minors. His value is on a rapid nosedive. The Braves have handled him like amateurs. Shaeffer has always been overated as a prospect. His ceiling is Juan Pierre without the stolen bases.

I wonder where you get that idea. Jordan Schafer's ceiling is a grea deal higher than Juan Pierre. In fact, outside of you, I have never seen anyone compare him to Juan Pierre. Jordan Schafer's ceiling is Grady Sizemore and his floor is probably a Mark Kotsay type player.

Kris Medlin will be fine as well. He's got great stuff, and right now, he's struggling a little with his location. He's getting strike outs at a good rate with a little over one strike out per inning. Teams are hitting .267 against him. He will be fine when he gets his walk rate down.

[frosgrim]

I wonder where you get that idea. Jordan Schafer's ceiling is a grea deal higher than Juan Pierre. In fact, outside of you, I have never seen anyone compare him to Juan Pierre. Jordan Schafer's ceiling is Grady Sizemore and his floor is probably a Mark Kotsay type player.

Kris Medlin will be fine as well. He's got great stuff, and right now, he's struggling a little with his location. He's getting strike outs at a good rate with a little over one strike out per inning. Teams are hitting .267 against him. He will be fine when he gets his walk rate down.

I agree, Scheafer needs to get his wrist healed and he'll starting hitting again. Its impossible to be an effective hitter with a bad wrist.

I see two things in Medlin.

1) he needs to slow down and think about what he's trying to accomplish. Hanson is a great example of how keeping a good, but steady rythm can keep you in a game, even when you can't locate your fastball.

2) Medlin needs to develop an "out" pitch. The kid gets hitters into 2 strike counts but can't seem to finish them off effectively. I think his curve would be that pitch if he can learn to through it at the top of the strike zone and then have it drop off the table as well. I know that's a tall order, but his curve has a lot of movement in it. A second out pitch could be his change. I don't see a lot in it right now, but if he could learn how to get it to dance a little more (maybe Maddux can show him tonight), then it would be a great out pitch for him.

In all, I think Medlin can be a very effective pitcher.

[Bahamut]

Wow, so Francoeur is still hitless against Atlanta pitchers.

Oh, and the new Coke bottle is awesome.

Respect +1

[Dakin]

I wonder where you get that idea. Jordan Schafer's ceiling is a grea deal higher than Juan Pierre. In fact, outside of you, I have never seen anyone compare him to Juan Pierre. Jordan Schafer's ceiling is Grady Sizemore and his floor is probably a Mark Kotsay type player.

Kris Medlin will be fine as well. He's got great stuff, and right now, he's struggling a little with his location. He's getting strike outs at a good rate with a little over one strike out per inning. Teams are hitting .267 against him. He will be fine when he gets his walk rate down.

Grady Sizemore? Based on what? Because he's a scrawny white center-fielder? Sizemore is a special, special player. Sheaffer is a singles hitter, and not a very good one. I hope I'm very wrong about him, but nothing about his minor league of major league performance has impressed me. I am actually really high on Medlen, but really really down on the way the braves have handled him this year. He was the most dominating pitcher in the minor leagues, called up for 1 start then buried as a mop-up reliever. What's the point? Do the Braves want to keep is trade value as a starter high and fearful that he would eventually start to struggle as a starter? Why else would he be wasting away in the bullpen? Or do they really think that he's destined to be a set-up man?

[frosgrim]

Grady Sizemore? Based on what? Because he's a scrawny white center-fielder? Sizemore is a special, special player. Sheaffer is a singles hitter, and not a very good one. I hope I'm very wrong about him, but nothing about his minor league of major league performance has impressed me. I am actually really high on Medlen, but really really down on the way the braves have handled him this year. He was the most dominating pitcher in the minor leagues, called up for 1 start then buried as a mop-up reliever. What's the point? Do the Braves want to keep is trade value as a starter high and fearful that he would eventually start to struggle as a starter? Why else would he be wasting away in the bullpen? Or do they really think that he's destined to be a set-up man?

You really can't judge Jordan on his performance earlier this season. His wrist is messed up. Once its healed he'll regain a lot of lost bat speed. I guess I don't get the Pierre reference due to Juan's popgun arm. Jordan's arm is significantly better.

Re: Medlin. I don't think you should be too down on his handling yet. A lot of MLB starters got their starts as long-relief pitchers. There is a lot he can learn from relief. The biggest thing that Chris needs to learn is confidence. He won't get that in the minors at this point. He needs keep getting MLB hitters out. Once he sees he can do that, he'll improve greatly, and long relief is the perfect place for him to learn gain that.

[Dakin]

You really can't judge Jordan on his performance earlier this season. His wrist is messed up. Once its healed he'll regain a lot of lost bat speed. I guess I don't get the Pierre reference due to Juan's popgun arm. Jordan's arm is significantly better.

Re: Medlin. I don't think you should be too down on his handling yet. A lot of MLB starters got their starts as long-relief pitchers. There is a lot he can learn from relief. The biggest thing that Chris needs to learn is confidence. He won't get that in the minors at this point. He needs keep getting MLB hitters out. Once he sees he can do that, he'll improve greatly, and long relief is the perfect place for him to learn gain that.

I don't see him having a spot in the Braves rotation this year or next. His best value to the Braves should be as a trade piece. His value can't be helped by being buried as a long reliever. The Pierre comparison didn't have anything to do with defense. I was talking more about on base skills and lack of power. Jordans a guy that might rack up a ton of hits and have a decent batting average, but if you're not hitting for extra bases or walking much, you aren't going to be very valuable - see Juan Pierre.

I'm guessing the wrist injury contributed to the Rob Deer-like strikeout numbers (man, I hope so) I don't think Jordan is THAT bad.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Dakin

[frosgrim]

I don't see him having a spot in the Braves rotation this year or next. His best value to the Braves should be as a trade piece. His value can't be helped by being buried as a long reliever. The Pierre comparison didn't have anything to do with defense. I was talking more about on base skills and lack of power. Jordans a guy that might rack up a ton of hits and have a decent batting average, but if you're not hitting for extra bases or walking much, you aren't going to be very valuable - see Juan Pierre.

I'm guessing the wrist injury contributed to the Rob Deer-like strikeout numbers (man, I hope so) I don't think Jordan is THAT bad.

Yes, the key to Jordan's value is getting on base and scoring runs. I think we saw that the kid has some pop in his bat. In the Philly searies before the wrist injury he stayed on the ball and could turn on that inside pitch. After the injury his bat speed was awful. He just drug the bat through the zone. IMO, Jordan will be a better player than Pierre.

This offseason is going to be very interesting. The Braves have an excess of starters and deep holes in power hitters. They should be able to turn one or two of Vazquez/Medlin/Hudson/Kawakami into a nice bat either in the outfield or at first base (or 3rd if Chipper gets moved to first).

[APE]

Church and Frenchy both hit their first homeruns as a Brave and Met today :cant believe:

[TroyMcClure]

I wonder where you get that idea. Jordan Schafer's ceiling is a grea deal higher than Juan Pierre. In fact, outside of you, I have never seen anyone compare him to Juan Pierre. Jordan Schafer's ceiling is Grady Sizemore and his floor is probably a Mark Kotsay type player.

Kris Medlin will be fine as well. He's got great stuff, and right now, he's struggling a little with his location. He's getting strike outs at a good rate with a little over one strike out per inning. Teams are hitting .267 against him. He will be fine when he gets his walk rate down.

Jordan Schafer's ceiling is Grady Sizemore and his floor is probably a Mark Kotsay type player.

I seriously doubt if Schaefer ever plays a full season in the Bigs. That would be a considerable difference from Mark Kotsay. Dude is a scrub and so is Wren. Could have had Andruw back for nothing, but the scouts and Wren thought Jordan was all grown up. Wren is a joke.

[TroyMcClure]

Yes, the key to Jordan's value is getting on base and scoring runs. I think we saw that the kid has some pop in his bat. In the Philly searies before the wrist injury he stayed on the ball and could turn on that inside pitch. After the injury his bat speed was awful. He just drug the bat through the zone. IMO, Jordan will be a better player than Pierre.

This offseason is going to be very interesting. The Braves have an excess of starters and deep holes in power hitters. They should be able to turn one or two of Vazquez/Medlin/Hudson/Kawakami into a nice bat either in the outfield or at first base (or 3rd if Chipper gets moved to first).

I don't think it was his wrist so much as his mind. Dude has a huge hole and no bat speed. Baseball is totally about adjustments. The kid will never make any. He's done. Juan Pierre on the other hand, will have played over a decade when he's done. I think you guys are putting a little too much stock into the Braves and their "scouting". It ain't who or what it used to be.

[mattlanta]

I don't think it was his wrist so much as his mind. Dude has a huge hole and no bat speed. Baseball is totally about adjustments. The kid will never make any. He's done. Juan Pierre on the other hand, will have played over a decade when he's done. I think you guys are putting a little too much stock into the Braves and their "scouting". It ain't who or what it used to be.

Woah, I think your'e undervaluing Jordan Schafer there a bit. Although I don't agree that he'll be much of a Grady Sizemore in his career, I do think his ceiling is still quite high with his ability to field, steal bases, and also has considerably a lot of pop in his bat for a center fielder. He was injured all year with a wrist injury, yes. But I also believe he wasn't ready for the majors. He couldn't hit a curve in spring training, but I was willing to look past it because of his potential and the fact that J. Anderson and G. Blanco were not much of an improvement over him. However, I think he will be ready next year and should be a serious contender to win a starting spot in the outfield - probably his old spot which is in center. I think our outfield next year will look something like McLouth at left, Schafer center, and Heyward at right when he is ready.

[frosgrim]

I don't think it was his wrist so much as his mind. Dude has a huge hole and no bat speed. Baseball is totally about adjustments. The kid will never make any. He's done. Juan Pierre on the other hand, will have played over a decade when he's done. I think you guys are putting a little too much stock into the Braves and their "scouting". It ain't who or what it used to be.

Troy if you don't think that a wrist injury doesn't affect your swing, you don't know a thing about hitting. Your wrists do a tremendous amount of work generating bat speed and providing bat control. Schaefer's hole in his swing is right where it would be if he has a slow bat due to not being able to use his wrists. He simply could not turn on the inside fastball because he had to drag his bat through the zone.

Does he need work on pitch recognition? Sure, but what rookie hitter doesn't? Remember that even Chipper hit under .280 (think it was .266) his rookie year. He made adjustments and came back as a professional hitter his second season.

I also find it amazing that posters like you can be so focused on the negatives that you can't even see the positives in Braves system. Look at the current lineup:

Escobar, McCann, Prado, and Chipper are all products of the Braves farm system. McCann is the best offensive catcher in the NL, and possibly in baseball (Mauer being right there with Brian). Escobar is a terrific shortstop and will be fine once he gets his head straight. Prado is a very nice 2nd baseman and can put the ball in play. In terms of ptiching there is Hanson and Medlin at the top and then others on the way.

Not everyone produces All-Stars every year. The best farm systems produce a ML player only once every few years. Along the way there are misses, like Francouer and KJ. But if you look at the other teams in baseball they all have similar problems. Hell, KC has been picking at the top of the draft for over 20 years and look what they have to show for it. On the other side you have farms systems like Boston and Florida that have turned out some good players (but they also have a lot of misses in there as well).

The fact of the matter is that the Braves are in a transition state from trying to win the division every year while Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux were here. That era is over and the Braves are retooling to get themselves back into long-term contention. That doesn't happen over night nor even over the course of a couple of seasons. You have to rebuild the minors to be a pipeline instead of a trading system. This year is probably not going to result in the playoffs, but realistically that was never a good goal. 2010, however, should see the Braves in the running for the Division. 2011 for the World Series.

[TroyMcClure]

Troy if you don't think that a wrist injury doesn't affect your swing, you don't know a thing about hitting. Your wrists do a tremendous amount of work generating bat speed and providing bat control. Schaefer's hole in his swing is right where it would be if he has a slow bat due to not being able to use his wrists. He simply could not turn on the inside fastball because he had to drag his bat through the zone.

Does he need work on pitch recognition? Sure, but what rookie hitter doesn't? Remember that even Chipper hit under .280 (think it was .266) his rookie year. He made adjustments and came back as a professional hitter his second season.

I also find it amazing that posters like you can be so focused on the negatives that you can't even see the positives in Braves system. Look at the current lineup:

Escobar, McCann, Prado, and Chipper are all products of the Braves farm system. McCann is the best offensive catcher in the NL, and possibly in baseball (Mauer being right there with Brian). Escobar is a terrific shortstop and will be fine once he gets his head straight. Prado is a very nice 2nd baseman and can put the ball in play. In terms of ptiching there is Hanson and Medlin at the top and then others on the way.

Not everyone produces All-Stars every year. The best farm systems produce a ML player only once every few years. Along the way there are misses, like Francouer and KJ. But if you look at the other teams in baseball they all have similar problems. Hell, KC has been picking at the top of the draft for over 20 years and look what they have to show for it. On the other side you have farms systems like Boston and Florida that have turned out some good players (but they also have a lot of misses in there as well).

The fact of the matter is that the Braves are in a transition state from trying to win the division every year while Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux were here. That era is over and the Braves are retooling to get themselves back into long-term contention. That doesn't happen over night nor even over the course of a couple of seasons. You have to rebuild the minors to be a pipeline instead of a trading system. This year is probably not going to result in the playoffs, but realistically that was never a good goal. 2010, however, should see the Braves in the running for the Division. 2011 for the World Series.

Frosgrim, I think you are putting too much value on a wrist injury. Imo, he's not MLB material. Secondly, there apparantly are no posters like me. I've been railing on the Braves organization for some time now. I've just had enough. Sure, we've got players, but our we don't have a philosophy anymore and I'm not going to go over this again, but Leo, Pat and Jimmy and Bobby and Ned were a huge reason why we had sustained excellence. Seems now though, the Braves don't know the difference between them or our current staff. Our scouts and management have missed the mark for years now. It's no longer a nuisance, it's a cancer. We're stupid now. We went in the dreaded "different direction".

Lastly, focusing on the negatives allows you to remove them. If not, your head is in the sand.

[frosgrim]

Frosgrim, I think you are putting too much value on a wrist injury. Imo, he's not MLB material. Secondly, there apparantly are no posters like me. I've been railing on the Braves organization for some time now. I've just had enough. Sure, we've got players, but our we don't have a philosophy anymore and I'm not going to go over this again, but Leo, Pat and Jimmy and Bobby and Ned were a huge reason why we had sustained excellence. Seems now though, the Braves don't know the difference between them or our current staff. Our scouts and management have missed the mark for years now. It's no longer a nuisance, it's a cancer. We're stupid now. We went in the dreaded "different direction".

Lastly, focusing on the negatives allows you to remove them. If not, your head is in the sand.

To a point you're correct, having an eye on what is not working allows you to correct them; however, since you aren't in the Braves organization, your focus appears to be on what is wrong, only. This approach doesn't allow you to see what is working. As a fan I can appreciate that the farm system right now doesn't have a power hitting outfielder that is ready for the majors. Next year, however, you are going to see one the best young hitters in baseball possibly join the team.

To reiterate: The team had to rebuild after the big three were done. This takes time. The system had to be rebuilt to provide ML talent vs. getting players to be traded. The Braves farm system has produced and continues to produce solid ML players, and in the case of McCann a top player at his position. Hope at some point you can see that the Braves are actually a team on the rise vs.

Re: Schaefer's injury: No, you can't undervalue an injury like what Schaerfer has going on. Its like undervaluing an ACL injury or a torn hamstring. Those things affect everything you do until it gets corrected. Have you ever tried hitting with a top wrist that you can't turn over whithout excruciating pain? If you haven't, then you don't what it means. I have, and it completely sucks.

[Dakin]

I just can't wait for Freddie and Jason to get here. (Freeman and Heyward) How cool would it be to have 2 stars on the right side named Freddie and Jason. Imagine the old-school 80's style poster possibilities.

Edited July 22, 2009 by Dakin

[Yubs]

Martin Prado batting 2nd and dropping Escobar to 5th-6th has been a stroke of genius. Long overdue, probably, but a stroke of genius nonetheless. We're finally trotting out a competent, dare-I-say fearsome lineup out there. Not really an easy out in there. Shipping Failcoeur to NY, and more importantly, getting him out of the 5th-6th spot has been a huge addition by subtraction.

[Plainview1981]

Martin Prado batting 2nd and dropping Escobar to 5th-6th has been a stroke of genius. Long overdue, probably, but a stroke of genius nonetheless. We're finally trotting out a competent, dare-I-say fearsome lineup out there. Not really an easy out in there. Shipping Failcoeur to NY, and more importantly, getting him out of the 5th-6th spot has been a huge addition by subtraction.

I think Kotchman is still a weak link. Good defensive first baseman but near nothing with the bat.

[AHF]

To turn around our farm system we need to follow the lead of the Mets and go UFC style, baby!

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/111252-mets-vp-challenges-farmhands-to-fight?eref=fromSI

[coachx]

I think Kotchman is still a weak link. Good defensive first baseman but near nothing with the bat.

.281 batting average is near nothing with that bat ?

A .281 batting average is nothing to sneeze at.........especially when you combine it with his gold glove and low strike out numbers.

[APE]

So now what to do with Kelly? He's doing good in Gwinnett......but I still want Prado to be the everyday guy....