Revisiting the Indiana Game

[Atlantaholic]

Giddy with anticipation for today's game against Washington I decided to give the Indiana game a re-watch today on NBA ILP broadband and I'd like to share with you guys some of my observations. I apologize for the length in advance, but hopefully some of you will be entertained by this rant

First of all, and this is something that I posted about right after the game, though upon rewatching, it is definitely something that I can now state with full confidence: The Indiana game was EASILY the most solid game offensively by Smith and Horford that we have ever seen. I understand that they have both had better games statistically in the past but in this game their body language, decision making, poise, patience, passing, and execution were, in what I'd like to call, an elite level.

Josh Smith for the first time in his life lived up to his J-smoove alias. The dude was silky smooth driving to the basket and laying it up from both the left side and the right side (finishing from the right side has been something that he had never been able to do well), his passes were legit (looking like Lebron out there), not wild and erratic like in previous campaigns. Another thing that was impressive was his poise when he had the ball in his hands. This is something which he has virtually never shown before, yet in the Indy game you could see him slow down, look around him, size up the defense, think about the best course of action and then attack. I know it is only one game, and god knows I don't want to jinx anything... But for the first time in a long time I am starting to have faith that Josh Smith will be an elite player in this league. As for Horford, exodus has already touched upon this a lot... but the dude was playing like he was a #1 option on offense. For the first time that I have ever seen, Horf played like Dwight Howard. Now, I know that his shot will not always fall, and there was really only one time in the game where he really posted up with success... HOWEVER, if he maintains that aggressiveness 15 ppg is a very, very realistic possibility this year... and if it happens it will be huge for us.

Now, on to some negatives.

In what has to be the most frustrating and perplexing trend of the last 11 years of Hawks basketball, we still have no freaking clue how to defend the pick and roll. Bibby, Teague, Crawford, Joe... it doesn't matter. No one has even the slightest idea about how to defend the most modest and mediocre of pick and rolls. The way Woodson deployed double teams was also quite questionable.. On one play in the fourth quarter Roy Hibbert had the ball, literally at the top right of the freaking key and we go to double him leaving (I believe) Watson WIDE open for a three. There were several other examples where we would leave wide open players in order to double in totally unnecessary situations. Overall our defense really was quite terrible throughout the game. There are so many damn things wrong with our defensive fundamentals, from boxing out, to Josh Smith not getting low enough on D when the ball is away from him, to defenders not helping out on defense, to the aforementioned head scratching scheme decisions, that it really makes you wonder how the heck Woodson ever got a reputation for being a defensive minded coach. Obviously, not all of it is on Woody, several players stood out as well.

Discouragingly so, one of the worst defenders of the night was our rookie Teague. The kid looked like I-85 out there on defense... everyone driving through him as if he was pavement. It wouldn't have been so bad if our frontcourt players actually helped out on defense though. Pachulia was guiltiest of all... the guy didn't help out even once when our guards got beat, deciding rather to box out his man and allow for an uncontested lay-up. Pachulia looked like the player that was the most hated Hawk two years ago (before the playoffs), and I sure hope that we can expect MUCH better defense from him this year (I do believe he will be better). Crawford also looked absolutely terrible on defense, and it is clear that his reputation as a totally useless defender was well deserved. One thing that we are gonna miss from Flip this year is his definitely gonna be his defense and hopefully Crawford will make up for it on the offensive side of the ball.

Despite the defense, Teague looked pretty good out there. His shot which was the source of many a punch line after the Orlando game, really didn't look all that bad. If he can knock down the spot up three a la Childress, and continue to drive and dish. He will be a very valuable player for us. His defense will get better, and I really wouldn't be that concerned yet... The guy is still a rookie afterall.

One last thing I'll add is that Iso-Joe needs to go. Maybe four years ago when Joe was the only starter on our team that could both dribble, shoot, and pass effectively, Iso Joe was a necessity but with the amount of talent we have on offense this year there is literally not a single situation where we need to resort to Joe going one on one. When we run Pick and Rolls, Motion, and when we give the ball to Horf and Smith at top of the key we look like one of the best Offenses in the NBA. IMO Joe not signing an extension could really turn out to hurt our club this year, because a lot of our offensive potential will hinge on his and Woodies willingness to switch the offensive focus from Joe to a team oriented offense. I truly believe if Joe was getting 35 minutes a game and scoring 18 ppg we would be a much better and infinitely more efficient ball club. As it stands, with this being Joe's contract year, I really doubt that we will see an end to frequent Iso-joe calls, but what was at least a little encouraging is that we stayed away from it in the Indy game more than in the past. Having said that, if our players can put their egos aside this year (Horf and Smith seemed to have done it), I really, really, really believe we can give the big three a run for their money.

Edited October 30, 2009 by Atlantaholic

[exodus]

Last season i was really starting to lose patience with Smith. I couldn't stand watching him hanging around the 3 pt line constantly, jacking up long jumpers, making dumb turnovers trying to lead the break, playing out of control, not boxing out etc.

Last game he played exactly the way everyone knows he should play (except for the boxing out part). He only forced a couple of bad shots. He was looking to cut to the basket without the ball, made good passes and when he went to the basket he had bad intentions like he was a rookie again. Too often he goes up soft inside and misses or gets blocked. Maybe he is finally getting a clue but it was just one game.

I have to think the defensive problems come from Woody. Granted Bibby isn't a good defender but that doesn't explain all of the problems. Either Woody isn't saying the right things or the players have tuned him out. Either way i have no confidence in him as a coach.

Horford took 9 jumpers last game, about double what he normally takes. Last year teams were leaving him open constantly from 15 feet but it seemed like he would only take those shots near the end of the shot clock. He shot 41% on his jumpers last year which isn't great but isn't bad either. There is no reason for him to pass up wide open mid range shots which he has done for 2 years.

He also drove to the basket a few times which he hardly ever does. He is faster than almost everyone he faces and his refusal to drive has been a major problem, allowing the opposing big man to forget about Horford and clog the lane. Horford needs to make those big, slow stiffs pay and he did last game. He needs to forget about trying to back down and overpower guys. That isn't going to work.

[tbhawksfan]

With his improved 15 footer, a drop-step move should get him a good look against most of his match ups. With his beard and the way he played against Indy, I'm reminded of Duncan. If Woodson can put these guys into position to exploit thier strengths, we might find that the Hawks have more than one all-star on the team.

[Peoriabird]

Granted Bibby isn't a good defender but that doesn't explain all of the problems. Either Woody isn't saying the right things or the players have tuned him out. Either way i have no confidence in him as a coach.

Just to add to what has already been said because i agree 100%. I thought that Bibby's defense against Indy was pretty good. I thought that he stayed in front of his man better than any of the other point guard plus he had some steals to boot. Hope this continues throughout the season.

[JackB1]

Totally agree about the ISO-Joe stuff needs to go. There are times that I think we may be better off without Joe because of this. He slows down the flow on offense and ball hogs and dribbles too much.

He is the only one on the team that always gets the ball and starts dribbling. Joe needs to change his mindset because every one of our starting 5 can now get it done. If we want our offense to make it

to the next level, Joe needs to cooperate and put his personal stats on the back burner.

About Josh, when he plays like he did in Game one for 10 games in a rwo, let me know. I am still skeptical about his "mental abilities" and if he can stick to his gameplan. But Josh's brain is his #1 enemy.

We all saw how easy the game can be for him when he plays within his abilities. He still was handling the ball to much on the break for me, but his passing was great. He also needs to help out on the boards

a little more. Al can't get 15 rebs every game.

[Atlantaholic]

Yes! We are at the point now as a team where Joe and Woody need to start trusting our players, because we are pretty damn good.

[bonethugz]

good and/or bad, only one/first game

[txsting]

Nice post.

I would add that it's still a treat to me to watch Bibby control the flow of the offensive game. Sometimes we forget and take his game for granted. He is still a huge part of what we are doing.

[Atlantaholic]

Nice post.

I would add that it's still a treat to me to watch Bibby control the flow of the offensive game. Sometimes we forget and take his game for granted. He is still a huge part of what we are doing.

[/quote

Oh yeah. I was def. gonna mention bib put the post just ran too long. Definitely a good move resigning him, his veteran presence and shot making ability are worth it. He seems to have plenty left in the thank.

[Joker]

Good writeup

[sillent]

Giddy with anticipation for today's game against Washington I decided to give the Indiana game a re-watch today on NBA ILP broadband and I'd like to share with you guys some of my observations. I apologize for the length in advance, but hopefully some of you will be entertained by this rant

First of all, and this is something that I posted about right after the game, though upon rewatching, it is definitely something that I can now state with full confidence: The Indiana game was EASILY the most solid game offensively by Smith and Horford that we have ever seen. I understand that they have both had better games statistically in the past but in this game their body language, decision making, poise, patience, passing, and execution were, in what I'd like to call, an elite level.

Watch the Sixers game from last year or the Bucks game from 2 years or more.

But for the first time in a long time I am starting to have faith that Josh Smith will be an elite player in this league.

First time is such a strong word and to me you should have seen his elite potential last year(Meaning it's old news). Sorry but I guess this is my drunk rant of letting the rest of our fans and the NBA world know what us Josh Smith fans been knew (I told you so's).

Now, on to some negatives.

In what has to be the most frustrating and perplexing trend of the last 11 years of Hawks basketball, we still have no freaking clue how to defend the pick and roll. Bibby, Teague, Crawford, Joe... it doesn't matter. No one has even the slightest idea about how to defend the most modest and mediocre of pick and rolls. The way Woodson deployed double teams was also quite questionable.. On one play in the fourth quarter Roy Hibbert had the ball, literally at the top right of the freaking key and we go to double him leaving (I believe) Watson WIDE open for a three. There were several other examples where we would leave wide open players in order to double in totally unnecessary situations. Overall our defense really was quite terrible throughout the game. There are so many damn things wrong with our defensive fundamentals, from boxing out, to Josh Smith not getting low enough on D when the ball is away from him, to defenders not helping out on defense, to the aforementioned head scratching scheme decisions, that it really makes you wonder how the heck Woodson ever got a reputation for being a defensive minded coach. Obviously, not all of it is on Woody, several players stood out as well.

Crawford also looked absolutely terrible on defense, and it is clear that his reputation as a totally useless defender was well deserved.

I missed most of the Pacer game. Against Arenas tonight he played better defense than anyone else guarding him so let's try to hold out on our criticism till we see a months resume. Being a Smoove fan I was a little harsh but I think you are right on the money with his progression(It's just that first is such a strong word for a long tenured Hawks/Smoove fan, he's setting league records while most of the league is sleeping on him).

Despite the defense, Teague looked pretty good out there. His shot which was the source of many a punch line after the Orlando game, really didn't look all that bad. If he can knock down the spot up three a la Childress, and continue to drive and dish. He will be a very valuable player for us. His defense will get better, and I really wouldn't be that concerned yet... The guy is still a rookie afterall.

Again I say (not directed to you but all of us Hawks fan) Teague is the truth and will be starting by next year (I would say after the Allstar break but Woody is stubborn in his ways and Bibby is not quite ready to give up his spot yet). Like Crawford, Teague is trying to fit in and get a feel for the team but he has yet to unleash the beast that is within (Which states that both of them are team players and try to do whats best for the team). Hence Crawford's performance tonight against the Wizards. He did what he needed to do to get us the lead and then he followed Woodson's instructions to score at will (although he was not within rhythm and ended up missing alot of easy and out of the game flow shots).

One last thing I'll add is that Iso-Joe needs to go. Maybe four years ago when Joe was the only starter on our team that could both dribble, shoot, and pass effectively, Iso Joe was a necessity but with the amount of talent we have on offense this year there is literally not a single situation where we need to resort to Joe going one on one. When we run Pick and Rolls, Motion, and when we give the ball to Horf and Smith at top of the key we look like one of the best Offenses in the NBA. IMO Joe not signing an extension could really turn out to hurt our club this year, because a lot of our offensive potential will hinge on his and Woodies willingness to switch the offensive focus from Joe to a team oriented offense. I truly believe if Joe was getting 35 minutes a game and scoring 18 ppg we would be a much better and infinitely more efficient ball club. As it stands, with this being Joe's contract year, I really doubt that we will see an end to frequent Iso-joe calls, but what was at least a little encouraging is that we stayed away from it in the Indy game more than in the past. Having said that, if our players can put their egos aside this year (Horf and Smith seemed to have done it), I really, really, really believe we can give the big three a run for their money.

Agreed!! As far as the ISO Joe it should be more situational than the game plan. There should always be openings to take advantage of a situation( at times) but we are too talented for ISO Joe to be our main game plan. I think Woody and Joe know that as well and as soon as Joe (Crawford and Teague as well) get accustomed to the new role the deadlier we'll be.

Edited October 31, 2009 by sillent