Atlanta Bad BOYS.....

[Diesel]

The question is would you...

Let me talk about possibilities...

It's very possible...

JT to Indy for Artest/Tinsley/1st.

This could be the start of Something:

Tinsley/Diaw/Artest/SAR/Theo.

I think now that Bird is running the show, Artest Days are numbered. The fact that Artest has tandrums is a reason for him to be shipped to us. However, that would give us a good Defensive frontline that would scare the bejesus out of most teams who cam our way.

If Diaw is a good defensive player, this is a move to make.

The deal would give JT the money he wants. It would put him with his friend Oneal. It would give us a defensive player and possible salary room

_________________EXTREME___________________________

There's another deal as I cross into the extreme.

I'm not serious about this but It's interesting none the less.....

SAR/Hendu/Nazr to PTL for Wallace/Bonzi/McInnis.

At this point, we are the bad boys of Basketball. We'd be a team full of Hype and anger ready to explode all the time. A defensive Giant... That strikes fear in every man, woman, boy, and girl...

Tinsley, Bonzi, Artest, Wallace, Theo....

Doesn't it send chill bumps up your spine???

[BlackHawkDown]

That is a great idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Having a team with charisma would be soo exciting. Maybe Artest could breath life back into that zombie Shareef " A Fake" Raheem.

Diesel this was a great day for you. Because this is without a doubt your best ever.

[dj_me]

The only problem with your EXTREME trade is the fact that we would have NO ONE to back-up Wallace or Theo. This is not to say that I like the idea of these two trades happening. One other snag; in the Indy trade, I'm sure Bird would want more than just JT. It would probably end up something like Artest/Tinsley for JT/1st which would sort of suck. But if the trades were done...

Tinsley / McInnis / DD

Bonzi / Hansen / Diaw

Artest / Diaw / CC

Wallace / "?"

Theo / "?"

[Diesel]

Tinsley hasn't really shown much. Really, he's part of the deal because of his salary and because he is probably better than Dickau at this point.

Artest... Is not enough for JT... For several reasons...

1. Artest is a hothead who will disrupt the flow of games.

2. Artest is in the last year of his contract.

3. As a player Artest is not really consistent.

That's why I said JT for JTins/Artest/ and a protected first.

As we go to the extreme...

Parts of it I like... Like if I were to continue...

I would want to see if we could get Mahorn in here as HC. I think if you're going to be the bad boys, you need a coach who can reflect that attitude. I think he's a guy who can stand up and CONTROL Artest.

I think having Theo with Wallace, and Bonzi would also be interesting. Theo is not really a tough guy... BUT Having Artest's push... Having Bonzi's will and having Wallace's Passion would have to have some kind of effect on him. DO I think this team could win? Yeah... They're not championship material, but if you put that team together, they'd do a number on the East.

Here's my vision:

Zeke = New GM.

I don't like the way Knight operates. He really seems like a Puppet. Put Zeke in that position. When he was in Toronto, he found good talent. Plus, Zeke helps to define the character of the team. What I mean by that is that he's an easily recognizable person... BUT unlike Nique, Zeke has experience in finding people.

Mahorn = HC.

Again, this is because Mahorn IS tough and He is UNBENDING and he does know what he wants. Mainly, I think he'll speak a language, these guys would understand.

Nique = top Assistant.

Nique needs experience.

Ellis and whoever else we can find = Assistants.

Team:

Starters = Tinsley, Bonzi, Artest, Wallace, Theo. I choose Tinsley over McInnis because Tinsley is more of a Pure PG.

Bench = Dickau, Diaw, Hansen, McInnis, Stepania, Ty Hill, Dj.

That means that we would make 2 FA signings... Ty Hill with MCE (2 yrs 5 million) and Stepania for 2 years also.

Our team would have a dimension of Toughness that could not be denied. When Wallace walks off the court, Ty Hill come on and his main purpose is to Rebound and add toughness.

These will be the BAD BOYS...

They will feed after each other's emotions.

[DJ_Money]

D, you're undervaluing the other team's players (for a change.)

Tinsley has value because he is a guy that can run an offense. He can't shoot his way out of a paper bag (which is why Indy brought in Timmy Hardaway), but that's another story.

JT is probably equal to Artest in value. Let's go over JT's shortcoming again...

1. JT can't run an offense effectively.

2. JT is too small to play the SG position.

3. JT ain't a model of consistency, either.

Besides, Indy doesn't really need a SG...

...and exactly what is your basis on your description of Mahorn? Wasn't he supposed to "toughen up" Nazr the last time he was here? That obviously didn't happen.

Mahorn has, what, a year of experience under the great basketball mind known as Lon Kruger?

Zeke was a bigger part of that "Bad Boys" team than Mahorn was, and he couldn't control Artest.

I wouldn't want Mahorn or Nique as head coach. I'd go with Stotts for now, and take another look around in 2 years.

I'd rather have Nique over Isiah as GM, as well.

[cyman3]

"Tinsley/Diaw/Artest/SAR/Theo."

- i wouldnt mind that but i dont have enuf faith in the offense of Tinsley/Diaw/Artest. SAR + THEO can guarantee u 30-40 ppg but the rest???

Tinsley is like Rafer Alston. Mr Skip to my Lou. Hes a playground baller and not a very good NBA player (IMO). He has handles but tries to go too much AND1. He also has no shot beyond 15 ft.

I rather have JASON "WHITE CHOCOLATE" WILLIAMS than Tinsley.

And i want insurance on ARTEST... will he do more harm or good?

[Diesel]

First let me address Mahorn.

Mahorn was brought here to work with the whole team. IN fact, I remember him working with Glover a little more than Nazr. IN fact, Gar Heard took on the challenge of working with the big men. The problem was that Mahorn was not allowed to do anything. He left because Lon was messing up and NObody was stopping him.

Secondly, Mahorn's experience came from years under Chuck Daily and other coaches PLUS he coached his CBA team to the Championship finals. If I'm not mistaken, Earl Boykins was one of his. Before you start undervalueing CBA coaching, where do you think Phil Jackson and George Karl got their starts?

Back to JT. Indy needs somebody who can score when the middle is clogged up. There's Reggie of course, but Reggie is going the way of all the world. JT would be that guy who could help do that. They are also going to need somebody who can be there with Oneal. Indy might lose Artest for nothing anyway by season's end. This deal is not bad when you consider what they get.

[Traceman]

I don't know if poor Theo could handle playing with that bunch of psychos. Wallace, Artest, Wells and Tinsley on the same team? Good grief! That would be worse than anything Portland has ever had to deal with. Artest is INSANE! I don't understand why no one seems to be able to see that. And you want to put him on the same team as Rasheed Wallace and Bonzi Wells? Tinsley has issues as well. No way in [censored] would I want all those guys together. Wallace alone? Sure. Bonzi alone? Sure. But Artest and Tinsley, I wouldn't want either of them AT ALL.

[KB21]

We would be the worst shooting team in the NBA. No Thanks!!

As for your second deal, that's exactly what we need.

A pot head/hot head in Wallace.

A hot head in Artest.

A pot head in Bonzi Wells.

Let's bring Isaiah Rider out of retirement, trade for child molestor Ruben Patterson, and sign crack head/dope smoker Roy Tarpley to play center while we are at it.

[Diesel]

How many goody goody teams have broken attendance awards????

It would be nice if we could get all good god fearing law abiding Citizens on the team... BUT who would go to see them LOSE?

I mean, Look at your championship Spurs....

That's about as goody goody as it gets....

Nobody wants to watch them.

However, get the Lakers:

Kobe.... Nuff Said.

Get MJ's Bulls...

MJ..... Adulterer, Gambler.

Pippen.......Gun carrying, Everybody's baby daddy.

Rodman...... Nuff Said.

Maybe we should put that team together and get JR out of retirement and add JJ just for grins. I'm sure the press would have a field day with the NEW Bad Boys. This team is guaranteed Ratings. How many Nationally televised games does the Good Guys have NOW?

[KB21]

Look at the Spurs. They are champions. Who cares if people want to watch them. They are the champions of the NBA.

You killed the point you were trying to make right there.

Not having a moral conscience is why the Trailblazers couldn't get over the hump to win a championship despite the talent on the roster.

[Diesel]

They have good guys JT, Theo, and SAR.

All great citizens.

But they can't even get into the playoffs.

Again, are you saying you would have rejected...

Jordan, Pippen, Barkley, Kobe, Wilt, Magic, and Ewing????

I don't think there's a need to try to be the moral judge over anybody.

[KB21]

Typical liberal.

Show me when Jordan, Magic, Wilt, and Ewing have been arrested for anything.

Kobe Bryant has been a model citizen up until this thing going on right now. He's innocent until proven guilty in my book, but if guilty, he should be thrown out of the league.

Pippen was arrested for carrying a gun, which is a right that you liberals want to take away from people for whatever reason.

You bring up those guys. I'll bring up Rider, Roy Tarpley, Stanley Roberts, Len Bias, and Chris Washburn

[Diesel]

Typical Conservative. Always trying to impose your views on the world. That's what Iraq is all about right? Learn this Conservative... You cannot imposed your views on a people who don't want it. If you learn that, less people would die in this world OVER NOTHING. The count is up to 138. That's 138 Americans who didn't have to die. Who's children will never understand why daddy had to die. You can call them and tell them because conservatives need to control oil.

Back to Basketball...

Kobe is already guilty of adultery.

Jordan is a confessed adulterer, he's a confessed Gambler.

Pippen was arrested for carrying an unregistered Gun he was also arrested for DUI.

I don't have a problem with carrying a gun. In fact, if you want the truth... I don't have a problem with killing somebody trying to steal my money. Think about it. That's what Brink Truck drivers are told to do? If Brinks and Wells Fargo and any Casino in America can Judge, Jury, and Prosecute on the spot over Money, I should be able to to. Actually, that's what our national defense does. It picks and chooses fights and kills over American interest. Shouldn't I have that same right? I should be able to imposed my set of beliefs over ANYBODY I feel who need to believe in what I believe in...and use MY GUN to do it... Right Conservative?

[chickenstanly]

"If you learn that, less people would die in this world OVER NOTHING. The count is up to 138. That's 138 Americans who didn't have to die."

----------------------------------------------------

What is the average death toll in the USA minus a war for a similar period? Adding 138 people to it would have no statistical significance. It has emotional significance

because of gullability to the press. But that number of

people is not meaningful.

On the other hand, the death toll that won them approval to

fight the war [joke] was far greater. But while 9/11 cost many lives, 3000 people is not meaningful to a population of 260 million. Again, this is emotion and gullability getting in the way of logical thought.

[drzachary]

Is there any way to ignore posts from certain users? This conservative/liberal stuff is just idiotic.

[Diesel]

Actually, it's not about emotions Chicken.

We're talking about needless deaths.

I'm not talking about people who die of old age, Cancer, Aids, ...

These are people who die mostly by a snipers bullet.

I call your attention to last years Sniper incident. That was only about 8 people right? Well just imagine had those snipers killed 138. Would you say to yourself.... "It's only a part of the total death count..., it's not likely to happen to me." or would a fear come over you every time you had to put gas in your car?

These are NEEDLESS deaths... Because otherwise, it's a high probability that these who have died would still be living.

[chickenstanly]

You could also say that "needless" deaths come in many forms. Drunk drivers cause "needless" deaths. Some Christians would claim that abortion causes "needless" deaths. Drug overdoses cause "needless" deaths. Do I need to go on?

Deaths due to war and conflict are part of the history of recorded civilization. This is "how things have worked" to

get civilization to where it is today. A sucessful attempt to alter this natural phenomenon would likely result in a quicker destruction of civilization than would naturally happen. It goes against human nature.

Understand that when you are dealing with loss of military life, you are not losing quality people. In fact, the volunteer military is made up largely of the lower echelon from within our society. These people "signed-up to die", you might say. Since the military contains a large population of alchoholics, spouse abusers, adulterers, etc, any attempts to whine over losing 138 of them is beyond nuts.

If Washington DC has a population of, say, 2 Million and

there are 8 sniper deaths ---- my calculator tells me that my chances of being a victim are 1 in 250,000. Again, it would be nuts to fear filling ones tank up with those odds ON YOUR SIDE.

Again, the press will make you believe that there is a spook around every corner and that "YOU COULD NEXT". Sort of the same pitch they use to entice fools to buy lottery tickets, isn't it ? "Well someone's gotta' win". "Well, it's only a dollar and I could win". "Well, I'd better watch out for the sniper and crazed middle-eastern hijackers"

All of these have something in common. Can anyone guess what that is ?

[Guest]

Hey Chicken.... *Ring Ring Ring* Is that the clue phone?

It's for you Chicken.

[Diesel]

My last simple statement here.

These deaths were caused by 1 man's want. He didn't have to decide to do it.

You show me 1 drunk driver that has hit 138 people and killed them. 138 drug addict who didn't have a choice. 138 mothers who had no choice in the matter.

As far as your opinion of quality people.... How dare you insult the very ones that help defend your arogant way of life. This isn't about them. It's about the decision of the commander in chief who has put them out to die. Maybe he feels like you. Maybe he thinks that 138 lifes with NO FACES and Stories to go with the number is worth what he has gained.... However, your ideal of trying to mask this mass murder is simple arrogance and stupidity. Get your calculator out and determine the worth of just one life....