Marvin Williams

[DarnShadyRefs]

Has anyone seen Marvin playing the four when we go small with the second unit? He looks comfortable down there. He has had some nice blocks and displayed a nice plethora of post up moves. He still isn't knocking down his jumpshots but woody needs to consider doing this a lot more. That line up kept us in the game for a while. I am just mad we didn't go back to it often. Bibby and JJ needs to start recognizing when other players are in the groove. We don't need to feed it to JJ everytime sheesh. When ever josh or marvin had their forward posted up on the block they had difficulty stopping it. Yet we never went back to it. I know I wasn't the only one that saw this.

[cwill1410]

Has anyone seen Marvin playing the four when we go small with the second unit? He looks comfortable down there. He has had some nice blocks and displayed a nice plethora of post up moves. He still isn't knocking down his jumpshots but woody needs to consider doing this a lot more. That line up kept us in the game for a while. I am just mad we didn't go back to it often. Bibby and JJ needs to start recognizing when other players are in the groove. We don't need to feed it to JJ everytime sheesh. When ever josh or marvin had their forward posted up on the block they had difficulty stopping it. Yet we never went back to it. I know I wasn't the only one that saw this.

Sorry, but playing Marvin at the 4 for large amounts of time will not work. You say we did good at this last game, but did you see how much we got out-rebounded by. Marvin should be coming off the bench. He really has not played well at all this year besides maybe one game.

[Atlantaholic]

He looks much more like a 2nd round pick than the #2 pick. sigh

[DarnShadyRefs]

LOL Guys I think most of alll have arrived at the conclusion that Marvin isn't going to live up to his draft status despite his draft status. I'm just stating an observation I've made for the last two games. He has played well with the second unit at the 4, believe it or not. As far as our rebounding woes, hats up to Woody to insert the best matchups (which he rarely does). He needs to tell the guys to gang rebound when they're playing very small. Too often have I seen us play good defense with our small line up only to fail to get the rebound because 2 hawk players are leaking for the fastbreak.

One thing teams do well against us is since they know we switch just about everything, It lures our main rebounders away from the basket by the time the shot is taken. I always see Josh and whoever is playing the five guarding a perimeter player.

Edited November 7, 2009 by DarnShadyRefs

[Buzzard]

I am as big a Marvin supporter as you will find but that does not mean I would support moving Marvin to the four and starting Bibby, Crawford, JJ, Marvin, and Horford while benching Smoove. Even though I do think Marvin is more versatile than Smoove, any lineup that starts Bibby and Crawford together is going to make us weaker defensively IMO.

The one change I think we may get away with is starting Crawford over Bibby. I think we gain more length, possibly more offense, while staying the same on D. And this could be premature thinking on my part also. Bibby is not playing well right now. Is it his age catching up with him or is he just in a slump?

Marvin will never be the 20 and 10 guy we hoped for; but he is plenty versatile enough to start at the 3 or 4 provided it makes us stronger and not weaker. With our current roster, I just do not see how moving him to the four will make us stronger...

Edited November 8, 2009 by Buzzard

[TheNorthCydeRises]

He's much more of an aggressive player when he plays the 4. That's why I say that he'd be better as the backup 4, than Joe Smith is. The same goes for JJ at the 3 over Evans, and Carawford at the 1 over Teague.

Woody will figure it out soon enough. And when he does, I think only Zaza and Crawford will be playing more than 15 minutes a game off the bench. I've said from the jump that Joe Smith shoudn't play more than 10 minutes a game. Horford and Marvin should be seeing more time at PF, with Joe Smith playing spot minutes or when Smoove and Marvin is in foul trouble.

Being able to play 10 guys, doesn't necessarily make you 10-deep We're more like 8 deep ( Crawford, Zaza, Evans ), with 2 guys who should get no more than spot minutes on most nights ( Joe Smith, Teague )

[DarnShadyRefs]

I am as big a Marvin supporter as you will find but that does not mean I would support moving Marvin to the four and starting Bibby, Crawford, JJ, Marvin, and Horford while benching Smoove. Even though I do think Marvin is more versatile than Smoove, any lineup that starts Bibby and Crawford together is going to make us weaker defensively IMO.

The one change I think we may get away with is starting Crawford over Bibby. I think we gain more length, possibly more offense, while staying the same on D. And this could be premature thinking on my part also. Bibby is not playing well right now. Is it his age catching up with him or is he just in a slump?

Marvin will never be the 20 and 10 guy we hoped for; but he is plenty versatile enough to start at the 3 or 4 provided it makes us stronger and not weaker. With our current roster, I just do not see how moving him to the four will make us stronger...

Buzzard i think u misunderstand me a bit. I still think he should start at the three. When Woody plays the bench or second unit with Marvin included, he looks better at the four because he has the matchup advantage offensively and defensively. In addition to that, he is making a conscientious effort to look for his offense a lot more this year even if he is off to a slow start. Right now he is playing 1 heck of a 1st half. Hope he keeps it up!

[DarnShadyRefs]

He's much more of an aggressive player when he plays the 4. That's why I say that he'd be better as the backup 4, than Joe Smith is. The same goes for JJ at the 3 over Evans, and Carawford at the 1 over Teague.

Woody will figure it out soon enough. And when he does, I think only Zaza and Crawford will be playing more than 15 minutes a game off the bench. I've said from the jump that Joe Smith shoudn't play more than 10 minutes a game. Horford and Marvin should be seeing more time at PF, with Joe Smith playing spot minutes or when Smoove and Marvin is in foul trouble.

Being able to play 10 guys, doesn't necessarily make you 10-deep We're more like 8 deep ( Crawford, Zaza, Evans ), with 2 guys who should get no more than spot minutes on most nights ( Joe Smith, Teague )

Hey northcyde do u think Sund made an oversight by not re-signing flip? Crawford is a beast of a backup point guard but it still doesn't allow Joe to rest much because we are deficient at the 2. We all know Woody is going to be spotty with Teagues mins so I don't know if we can bank on him making a great impact by the end of the season. That's why I think Marvin needs to give us an impact offensively this year like he is doing tonight to pick up the load when joe sits in the scoring department. I feel bad for Joe. Woody will run him in to the ground again. EVen though crawford has the size to play the 2, he is more natural at the 1. Vice vesrsa for flip

[Buzzard]

Buzzard i think u misunderstand me a bit. I still think he should start at the three. When Woody plays the bench or second unit with Marvin included, he looks better at the four because he has the matchup advantage offensively and defensively. In addition to that, he is making a conscientious effort to look for his offense a lot more this year even if he is off to a slow start. Right now he is playing 1 heck of a 1st half. Hope he keeps it up!

Yes I did misunderstand. Marvin can play the four with the right rotation out there. That is one of the reasons I like his game so much; no matter who is guarding him or who he is guarding...I have never seen a "deer in the headlights look in his eyes"

He may not be aggressive enough on offense most nights but I don't think he fears anyone...

Edited November 8, 2009 by Buzzard

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Hey northcyde do u think Sund made an oversight by not re-signing flip? Crawford is a beast of a backup point guard but it still doesn't allow Joe to rest much because we are deficient at the 2. We all know Woody is going to be spotty with Teagues mins so I don't know if we can bank on him making a great impact by the end of the season. That's why I think Marvin needs to give us an impact offensively this year like he is doing tonight to pick up the load when joe sits in the scoring department. I feel bad for Joe. Woody will run him in to the ground again. EVen though crawford has the size to play the 2, he is more natural at the 1. Vice vesrsa for flip

I wouldn't say it was an oversight, because they drafted a PG. When they did that, plus trade for Crawford, I think that pretty much said that Flip wasn't in the plan for this year.

But would I like to have Flip here? Hell yeah. At least for this year. I would've gladly sacrificed a year of development for Teague, in order to have Flip here. Flip is a better man defender than Teague, but not quite as athletic. But a Crawford - Flip 2nd unit would put tremendous pressure on the opposing team to stop the both of them. And you're right, it may allow JJ to get that 15 w 17 minutes of rest per night, that people want.

[DarnShadyRefs]

Yes I did misunderstand. Marvin can play the four with the right rotation out there. That is one of the reasons I like his game so much; no matter who is guarding him or who he is guarding...I have never seen a "deer in the headlights look in his eyes"

He may not be aggressive enough on offense most nights but I don't think he fears anyone...

What did you think about his performance tonight? Even though he got his usual 14 pts, it was the way and when he got em. He helped put denver in foul trouble a bit and his aggressiveness made carmelo and his defender worry about him tonight. This were his most meaningful points this season and I hope he keeps it up for the rest of the year.

[DarnShadyRefs]

I wouldn't say it was an oversight, because they drafted a PG. When they did that, plus trade for Crawford, I think that pretty much said that Flip wasn't in the plan for this year.

But would I like to have Flip here? Hell yeah. At least for this year. I would've gladly sacrificed a year of development for Teague, in order to have Flip here. Flip is a better man defender than Teague, but not quite as athletic. But a Crawford - Flip 2nd unit would put tremendous pressure on the opposing team to stop the both of them. And you're right, it may allow JJ to get that 15 w 17 minutes of rest per night, that people want.

I think if Sund wanted to make a power move to increase our chances as a contender, he should have re-signed flip. He is the only one that can play the two very well despite his size without much drop off in defense. Flip was never good at running the 1 which is why Woody plays flip with Bibby. I still think Teague would have gotten his mins regardless. He isn't playing impactful mins yet anyways.

[macdaddy]

Flip would have been a luxury which is not something we're used to having around here. Wouldn't you rather have Flip than RandMo? How did that guy get a two year contract?