A Lot of Joe hater....why?

[spotatl]

Buzzard- do you really think that the Hawks have better players on offense than The Nuggets? Do you think they have better players on offense than the Magic? The Suns? The Spurs? I just don't think its realistic to expect the Hawks to be a top 5 offense when so many other teams have been willing to spend the luxury tax to create a better roster.

Edited December 1, 2009 by spotatl

[Buzzard]

Buzzard- do you really think that the Hawks have better players on offense than The Nuggets? Do you think they have better players on offense than the Magic? The Suns? The Spurs? I just don't think its realistic to expect the Hawks to be a top 5 offense when so many other teams have been willing to spend the luxury tax to create a better roster.

Luxury tax has nothing to do with whether we have good players or not. Like I said: we have one of the most talented trio of guards in the NBA. Woody loves his guards and he gives them every opportunity to succeed in his offense. When they fail, we suck wind; its that simple.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Buzzard

[Atlantaholic]

Luxury tax has nothing to do with whether we have good players or not. Like I said: we have one of the most talented trio of guards in the NBA. Woody loves his guards and he gives them every opportunity to succeed in his offense. When they fail, we suck wind; its that simple.

Considering that we have been ranking in the top five all year with the team shooting like crap from three and Marvin shooting like crap from every single spot on the floor, it probably would be a reasonable expectation to say we could rank in the top five.

The problem with our offense is absolutely crystal clear to anyone who watches our games. When the ball stops moving and four of our five players stand around with their hands on their hips watching one player take on five, that's when we struggle.

[Buzzard]

Considering that we have been ranking in the top five all year with the team shooting like crap from three and Marvin shooting like crap from every single spot on the floor, it probably would be a reasonable expectation to say we could rank in the top five.

The problem with our offense is absolutely crystal clear to anyone who watches our games. When the ball stops moving and four of our five players stand around with their hands on their hips watching one player take on five, that's when we struggle.

Yes and considering the fact that our trio of guards also average, for their careers, better than four assist a game this is a frustrating and sad thing to watch.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Buzzard

[Atlantaholic]

Yes and considering the fact that our trio of guards also average, for their careers, better than four assist a game this is a frustrating and sad thing to watch.

Even my dad who knows little about basketball kept asking me why the Hawks were continuing to go one on one against Detroit. I pointed at Woodson on the TV screen while he was sporting one of his trademark "I wonder what Mrs. Woodson is cooking up for dinner?" looks on his face and my dad just laughed.

It is really obviously bad basketball, and I don't know why anyone is defending that style of offensive play.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Atlantaholic

[Wretch]

Considering that we have been ranking in the top five all year with the team shooting like crap from three and Marvin shooting like crap from every single spot on the floor, it probably would be a reasonable expectation to say we could rank in the top five.

The problem with our offense is absolutely crystal clear to anyone who watches our games. When the ball stops moving and four of our five players stand around with their hands on their hips watching one player take on five, that's when we struggle.

Clear as day...

We have too many players on this team that can score. Joe yo-yo'ing his defender for 10-15 seconds is not good basketball. Not for this team. Joe needs to go quick on offense. We're giving the defense TOO MUCH TIME to react. Everyone knows JJ is our heart and soul. It goes without saying that any team that goes up against us has "contain Joe Johnson" as a priority. The Celtics throw like 3 guys at him...and he STILL tries to put it up. Fault Woodson, fault JJ - it doesn't matter. The bottom line is, the defense is waiting for JJ to make a move. They are going to collapse on him. We are only helping them by eating up so much of the clock. Go quick, move the ball. It makes the defense scramble, gets everyone involved, the team grows, our players grow, and we win.

[Buzzard]

Even my dad who knows little about basketball kept asking me why the Hawks were continuing to go one on one against Detroit. I pointed at Woodson on the TV screen while he was sporting one of his trademark "I wonder what Mrs. Woodson is cooking up for dinner?" looks on his face and my dad just laughed.

It is really obviously bad basketball, and I don't know why anyone is defending that style of offensive play.

I know what you are saying and hope the Spirit understand this as well. Have to think Sund does since he did not extend Woody to begin with. I really think it comes down to our abilty to win the games on the road we should win and win some big games at home. Sund and the Spirit have to put and keep fans in the seats.

To many losses like Charlotte, Detroit, and Orlando will spell doom for Woody. And until he changes his schemes, those types of bad losses will continue.

[Atlantaholic]

I know what you are saying and hope the Spirit understand this as well. Have to think Sund does since he did not extend Woody to begin with. I really think it comes down to our abilty to win the games on the road we should win and win some big games at home. Sund and the Spirit have to put and keep fans in the seats.

To many losses like Charlotte, Detroit, and Orlando will spell doom for Woody. And until he changes his schemes, those types of bad losses will continue.

Woodson should have been fired after his third season IMO. I think if we finish with the same or similar record than last year, and struggle in the playoffs Management will be looking at other candidates. At least i hope so.

[Atlantaholic]

Clear as day...

We have too many players on this team that can score. Joe yo-yo'ing his defender for 10-15 seconds is not good basketball. Not for this team. Joe needs to go quick on offense. We're giving the defense TOO MUCH TIME to react. Everyone knows JJ is our heart and soul. It goes without saying that any team that goes up against us has "contain Joe Johnson" as a priority. The Celtics throw like 3 guys at him...and he STILL tries to put it up. Fault Woodson, fault JJ - it doesn't matter. The bottom line is, the defense is waiting for JJ to make a move. They are going to collapse on him. We are only helping them by eating up so much of the clock. Go quick, move the ball. It makes the defense scramble, gets everyone involved, the team grows, our players grow, and we win.

Yeah man, the biggest thing for me is that it takes the other four players out of the game and kills their rhythm. If you are going one on one be quick, and decisive.

[spotatl]

I'm sorry... if you think that the Hawks SHOULD have (unless they get poor coaching) a better offense than a team with Carmelo, Billups, JR Smith, and Nene then I think you are just a blind homer.

Same with a team that has Nash, Amare, HIll, Barbosa, and Richardson

And a team with Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, and Jefferson

And a team with Howard, Carter, Nelson, and Lewis

And a team with Deron Williams, Boozer, Okur, and Millsap

And a team with Pierce, Rondo, KG, Allen, and Rasheed.

Given good coaching for every team I think the Hawks SHOULD finish with worse offenses than all of those teams. When Woodson has the Hawks in the top 5 in the league in offense I think he deserves a lot of credit.

Edited December 2, 2009 by spotatl

[Atlantaholic]

I'm sorry... if you think that the Hawks SHOULD have (unless they get poor coaching) a better offense than a team with Carmelo, Billups, JR Smith, and Nene then I think you are just a blind homer.

Same with a team that has Nash, Amare, HIll, Barbosa, and Richardson

And a team with Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, and Jefferson

And a team with Howard, Carter, Nelson, and Lewis

And a team with Deron Williams, Boozer, Okur, and Millsap

And a team with Pierce, Rondo, KG, Allen, and Rasheed.

Given good coaching for every team I think the Hawks SHOULD finish with worse offenses than all of those teams. When Woodson has the Hawks in the top 5 in the league in offense I think he deserves a lot of credit.

Guess what man, team stats after 15 games don't really amount to anything. If we are top 5 at the end of the year I would be satisfied with our offense obviously, but that will not happen if Woodson doesn't find anything else to go to when we struggle other than give the ball to JJ and have him dribble out the clock. Even if we do finish top five though, we will still certainly get shut down in the playoffs. Cleveland couldn't get away with Iso Lebron against Orlando, we definitely won't get away with Iso JJ against any of the top teams.

[Buzzard]

I'm sorry... if you think that the Hawks SHOULD have (unless they get poor coaching) a better offense than a team with Carmelo, Billups, JR Smith, and Nene then I think you are just a blind homer.

Same with a team that has Nash, Amare, HIll, Barbosa, and Richardson

And a team with Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, and Jefferson

And a team with Howard, Carter, Nelson, and Lewis

And a team with Deron Williams, Boozer, Okur, and Millsap

And a team with Pierce, Rondo, KG,Allen, and Rasheed.

Given good coaching for every team I think the Hawks SHOULD finish with worse offenses than all of those teams. When Woodson has the Hawks in the top 5 in the league in offense I think he deserves a lot of credit.

Just about everyone on this board was giddy when we signed Craw. Reason is simple. We knew with Bibby, JJ, and Craw we would have a top 5 backcourt and quite possibly the best scoring guard rotation in the NBA. We also knew that if one or more of our frontcourt players broke out we would have one of the better teams in the NBA.

You discount our whole lineup like its just JJ and everyone else this year.

JJ, Bibby, Crawford, Smoove, Horf, and Marvin

Yet give credit to the NAMES below like they are having really great all-star caliber seasons when they are not:

HIll and Barbosa

Ginobili and Jefferson

Carter, Nelson, and Lewis

Okur and Millsap

Allen and Rasheed.

Of all those players listed above which ones would you take over Smoove and Horf? You want to discount them because they are Hawks and have never been to an all-star game; yet Horf and Smoove are having closer to all-star seasons than anyone on the above list. When Marvin gets back to shooting, and he is not far off IMO, we will be even better.

There is only one team that comes close to our three guard rotation and that is the Pistons; unfortunately for them, RIP has only played one game this season. Ever since last season a lot of us have said Woodys offense lives and dies with the ISO and 3pt shot. Its a great offense when it is living; but we have a hard time keeping up with a lottery team when it is dying; and against the elite teams ,.... 20 and 30 pt losses.

I am begining to think you are a Woody homer; who is oblivious to the fact that we have a six man rotation, a great mixiture of talented vets and up and coming young players, that 90% of the league cannot match.

Edited December 2, 2009 by Buzzard

[spotatl]

Just talking about offense I'd easily take all of those pairs over SMith and Horford except for Hill and Barbosa. (And I think that Nash and Amare are a little more important to the Suns offense) Don't mistake the fact that Smith and Horford are good players who are severely flawed on offense.

Edited December 2, 2009 by spotatl

[Buzzard]

Just talking about offense I'd easily take all of those pairs over SMith and Horford except for Hill and Barbosa. (And I think that Nash and Amare are a little more important to the Suns offense) Don't mistake the fact that Smith and Horford are good players who are severely flawed on offense.

The point is not who you would take on offense, the point is who would you take period. Its a team game and you ignore what Horf and Smoove bring every night on both ends of the floor.

And no kidding Nash and Amare are more important to the offense; just as JJ, Bibby, and Craw are to ours. But Smoove and Horf cant be ignored either; nor can Barbosa and Hill.

You think its just JJ and everyone else; so Woody gets all the credit for us being a top 5 offensive team. If thats the case, the Suns are just Nash and Amare so Gentry should get all the credit as well. JJ, Horf, Smoove, and Crawford are having better seasons than any Sun not named Amare and Nash. You choose to discount that and say Woody is the reason we are so good. I think you just dont realize how good we are from players 1 through 6...

Edited December 2, 2009 by Buzzard

[MVP23]

and 4 months later....still the same ole thing with Joe

[EazyRoc]

Ever Since Joe has been here, he has been doing the same thing. Dribble for the entire shot clock, and try to make something happen. He is basically a chucker..but he doesn't shoot immediately like Craw..oh no, he waste time of the clock. Sometimes upwards of 15-20 seconds, just dribbling..the thing is..HE WAS ALWAYS BEEN DOING THIS!! But I can't remember the last time Joe has ever gotten this much hate...whats going on?

Chuckers don't shoot 46%

[AnthonyI11]

MVP23, when we lose in the 4th quarter it's a total team deflation. Our defensive intensity usually drops. It's not Joe's fault.. you are absolutely ridiculous.

[NBASupes]

The birth of Iso Joe namesake.

[JayBirdHawk]

Joe Jesus signed with the Pistons.

 

 

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

The only reasons Hawks fans resented JJ2 was because he wasn't LeBron, he took games off, and the contract... the contract led to the fan base putting our expectations for him through the roof. He was a great player for us and a top 5 player in Hawks history, but he was never going to be LeBron or even Nique and our ceiling was low with him as our #1 guy.

This is a great pick up for the Pistons especially after his Big3 showing. Wish him the best.