Why wasn Nique in the 1992 Dream Team?

[Dsinner]

The fact that he played on a media friendly team that won two championships and the fact that he hit arguably the single biggest shot in college basketball history (based on the drama of the game and the high profile nature of the participants) is what made his career, IMO.

I don't think any serious basketball fan mentions Laettner in a conversation about greatest college player ever except Duke fans anymore. When he was at the height of his hype you heard that, but as time and perspective come to fruition most people recognize that a player averaging 16 points and 7.7 rpg is not worthy of being in that conversation.

BTW - Laettner didn't hold up too well against Zo in their junior year meeting:

Laettner 5-22, 14 points, 12 rebounds, 2 blocks, 0 steals

Mourning 8-12, 22 points, 10 rebounds, 4 blocks, 2 steals

IMO, Laettner's hype was influenced primarily by three things:

(1) Team success;

(2) Media spotlight; and

(3) An outstanding college career.

Whereas Lew Alcinder is a legend whereever he plays, Laettner would not be held in such high regard as a college player had he played for LSU, Richmond, etc.

From my perspective, every NBA talent evaluator knew that Laettner was the inferior player to Zo and Shaq but the better short-term PR move for the Dream Team.

His career average is a little warped seeing as how his freshman year he was a backup behind some decent bigs. You base his matchup with Zo on one game? Anybody over 30 has him in the conversation. The fact that we are even talking about him vs Zo and Shaq (two Hall of Famers and 2 of the best centers ever) proves the point. He played 4 years on some good teams so of course his numbers might not be up to par with some but forget the numbers, the dude was Mr. clutch period.

Of course NBA heads had Shaq and Zo ranked higher than him as they were obviously going to be better NBA players (hence the draft). You won't get an argument out of me either as I knew they would be better players in the NBA. Too bad this discussion has nothing to do with that. One player had to be picked from college to be on the Dream Team and who else would they pick? Hmm, maybe the college player of the year? How is this even a discussion? Oh that's right, a Kentucky fan is devaluing a Duke player. Big surprise there lol. (That was good natured picking btw).

[AHF]

His career average is a little warped seeing as how his freshman year he was a backup behind some decent bigs. You base his matchup with Zo on one game? Anybody over 30 has him in the conversation. The fact that we are even talking about him vs Zo and Shaq (two Hall of Famers and 2 of the best centers ever) proves the point. He played 4 years on some good teams so of course his numbers might not be up to par with some but forget the numbers, the dude was Mr. clutch period.

Of course NBA heads had Shaq and Zo ranked higher than him as they were obviously going to be better NBA players (hence the draft). You won't get an argument out of me either as I knew they would be better players in the NBA. Too bad this discussion has nothing to do with that. One player had to be picked from college to be on the Dream Team and who else would they pick? Hmm, maybe the college player of the year? How is this even a discussion? Oh that's right, a Kentucky fan is devaluing a Duke player. Big surprise there lol. (That was good natured picking btw).

Laettner kicked UK's butt in that classic matchup so I understand the ribbing for sure. That game was an absolute classic even if it didn't come out the way I wanted.

Laettner really isn't in the conversation for greatest college player ever, either. He was at the height of his hype and hasn't been for a decade once perspective set in. Let's exclude his freshman year since you think that would unfairly prejudice him and see where his stats are compared to a player who was clearly his superior in every way in college:

Laettner: v. Alcinder

19.2 ppg v. 26.4 ppg

55.6 FG% v. 63.9 FG%

8.7 rpg.... v. 15.5 rpg

1-time POY v. 2-time POY

1-time NCAA Tournament MOP v. 3-time NCAA Tournament MOP

95-20 college record v. 88-2 college record

2-time champion v. 3-time champion

By every measure, Lew Alcinder is heads and shoulders above Laettner. It isn't even close.

[Dsinner]

Laettner kicked UK's butt in that classic matchup so I understand the ribbing for sure. That game was an absolute classic even if it didn't come out the way I wanted.

Laettner really isn't in the conversation for greatest college player ever, either. He was at the height of his hype and hasn't been for a decade once perspective set in. Let's exclude his freshman year since you think that would unfairly prejudice him and see where his stats are compared to a player who was clearly his superior in every way in college:

Laettner: v. Alcinder

19.2 ppg v. 26.4 ppg

55.6 FG% v. 63.9 FG%

8.7 rpg.... v. 15.5 rpg

1-time POY v. 2-time POY

1-time NCAA Tournament MOP v. 3-time NCAA Tournament MOP

95-20 college record v. 88-2 college record

2-time champion v. 3-time champion

By every measure, Lew Alcinder is heads and shoulders above Laettner. It isn't even close.

For the record I'm not saying he WAS the greatest or that he was even greater than Alcinder (which seems to be the only player you are mentioning) but he is in the convo with a lot of people that are even Duke haters. Most people that don't include Laettner do so because of his lackluster NBA career (even though by most standards it wasn't that bad). Players were different back in Al's days. You can compare numbers all you want but I gurantee you Wilt wouldn't put up 100 vs Shaq or Ewing. I don't really like to compare players from different eras either collegeor pros. Again, I don't think Laettner is the greatest college player ever but by most he is top 5 easily.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Dsinner

[Dsinner]

http://www.mysticgames.com/famouspeople/ChristianLaettner.htm

http://www.kosmix.com/topic/christian_laettner

http://www.daylife.com/topic/09kwf5hc329Lx

http://www.mahalo.com/christian-laettner

http://www.biographicon.com/view/1p6qd/Christian_Laettner

http://www.heraldsun.com/printer_friendly/6459428

I can keep going if I need to?

[AHF]

Which of those links argues he is the best player in college basketball hostory? None as far as I can see.

If you want to say that when some people talk about great college players that Laettner is discussed, I won't argue that. Some people argue Amare Stoudamire is one of the greatest players in the NBA today. No one argues Amare is the best. No one other than homers thinks Laettner was the greatest college player.

I mention Lew because he is the greatest college player ever. I could talk Bill Russell or other superior players as well, but to be in the conversation for greatest ever you have to arguably have been better than Lew.

Laettner is not in that conversation.

[Endy9]

Laettner kicked UK's butt in that classic matchup so I understand the ribbing for sure. That game was an absolute classic even if it didn't come out the way I wanted.

Laettner really isn't in the conversation for greatest college player ever, either. He was at the height of his hype and hasn't been for a decade once perspective set in. Let's exclude his freshman year since you think that would unfairly prejudice him and see where his stats are compared to a player who was clearly his superior in every way in college:

Laettner: v. Alcinder

19.2 ppg v. 26.4 ppg

55.6 FG% v. 63.9 FG%

8.7 rpg.... v. 15.5 rpg

1-time POY v. 2-time POY

1-time NCAA Tournament MOP v. 3-time NCAA Tournament MOP

95-20 college record v. 88-2 college record

2-time champion v. 3-time champion

By every measure, Lew Alcinder is heads and shoulders above Laettner. It isn't even close.

I have to say you seem to change the rules as it suits you to make your argument. You began by saying Laettner didn't deserve to be picked over Shaq because we should discount that Laetnerr was on a better team. Now you want to use championships and records to argue Lew Alcinder over Laettner. The argument is very very weak if you are suggesting that Lew Alcinder playing at LSU, Houston, Maryland, etc. would have gone 88-2 and won 3 chamionships, when much of the credit for those things should go to the greatest basketball coach ever John Wooden and the supporting cast he put together.

I would put Alcinder in a list of greatest college players ever, but wouldn't call it a slam dunk. I don't know that you can pick one over the other in a list of the top ten and Laettner deserves consideration to be in such a group. One of the things you can't list in stats is his leadership and poise. Two things I never saw in Shaq in college and very little of in the NBA for that matter. Leadership and poise are things that people who saw him play will remember and people who only read about him later will never understand. Just like I can't really measure a Wilt or Bill Russell in their prime. I never saw Russell play and only saw Wilt in his later years.

And I'm no Duke homer, i'm a UGA fan.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Endy9

[AHF]

I have to say you seem to change the rules as it suits you to make your argument. You began by saying Laettner didn't deserve to be picked over Shaq because we should discount that Laetnerr was on a better team. Now you want to use championships and records to argue Lew Alcinder over Laettner. The argument is very very weak if you are suggesting that Lew Alcinder playing at LSU, Houston, Maryland, etc. would have gone 88-2 and won 3 chamionships, when much of the credit for those things should go to the greatest basketball coach ever John Wooden and the supporting cast he put together.

I would put Alcinder in a list of greatest college players ever, but wouldn't call it a slam dunk. I don't know that you can pick one over the other in a list of the top ten and Laettner deserves consideration to be in such a group. One of the things you can't list in stats is his leadership and poise. Two things I never saw in Shaq in college and very little of in the NBA for that matter. Leadership and poise are things that people who saw him play will remember and people who only read about him later will never understand. Just like I can't really measure a Wilt or Bill Russell in their prime. I never saw Russell play and only saw Wilt in his later years.

And I'm no Duke homer, i'm a UGA fan.

No disrespect but you completely missed the flow of this thread.

(1) I argued that Laettner clearly did not deserve to be on the olympic team over a guy like Nique.

(2) I argued that if you were going to select a college player you should have selected the best player - not the one with the best college resume and that the best player was either Shaq or Alonzo.

(3) In response to that argument, it was suggested that Laettner was an appropriate pick among college players for the team because he was arguably the greatest college basketball player of all-time.

(4) In response to the suggestion that Laettner was arguably the greatest college basketball player of all-time, I suggested that many of Laettner's greatest arguments for his college career relied on team success rather than individual play. I argued that II believed Lew Alcinder was the greatest college player and that whether you looked at team success or individual success that he clearly outclassed Laettner. On the individual side, even throwing out Laettner's freshman year he was still substantially outscored by Alcinder and he scored much less efficiently than Alcinder. Even more damning, Alcinder had nearly twice as many rebounds per game as Laettner. Given Laettner's subpar blocks it is a given that had blocks been a statistic for Alcinder he would also have dominated Laettner in that area. On the team side, Alcinder's team was much more success on a W/L basis than Laettner's and won more championships. I think you can certainly make a case that playing with the greats on those UCLA teams helped Alcinder just as playing with lottery picks like Grant Hill and Bobby Hurley helped Laettner. However, from a team perspective Alcinder won both a much higher % of games and won more championships giving him the edge there. As far as national recognition, Alcinder was recognized as the best player in the game 2 of 3 seasons and was the best post-season player every year of his career. In every area, Alcinder substantially outclasses Laettner which is why no rationale human being can argue that Laettner was a better college player than Alcinder.

For this reason, I argued that there are people who are in the conversation for greatest college basketball player with Alcinder but that Laettner is not one of them.

There are two separate issues here: (1) whether Laettner deserved a spot on the Olympic team and (2) whether Laettner is in the conversation for greatest college basketball player of all-time. You can disagree with me on either of those issues, as clearly at least one standout poster on this site is doing. However, if you are disagreeing with me on one or both issues you can't pick on me for being inconsistent in my position.

My position has been consistent. The best player should have been taken for the Olympic spot and that should have gone to a pro like Nique who was a HOF talent in his prime with demonstrated pro success. If it went to a college player, it should have gone to the most talented among them and that was Shaq followed by Mourning - as clearly seen by every NBA scout. That is my position on the Olympic selection issue.

On the issue of who is in the conversation for greatest college basketball player of all-time, I recognize that different people use different standards to compare and contrast candidates. Some rely on the great stats of a guy like Pistol Pete to say he had the greatest college career. Some look at a player elevating a program and overcoming historical racial bias like Bill Russell. I personally think these should be viewed in context with one another (Pete's numbers and mediocre team performance were related - his ballhogging and the system at LSU emphasized his individual stats at the expense of team success and inflated his numbers. Russell's emphasis on team success moderated his nonetheless impressive statistics. Etc.)

By any standard you apply, however, there is not a credible argument that Laettner is the greatest college player of all-time. He isn't close by individual stats; not close by way of awards that measure him against his peers (POY, Tourney MOP, etc.); and is at least in the conversation but still a second-banana even by the measure of team success. To reiterate: my only point in bringing up Alcinder's superior team success was to show that even by that most abstract of standards (team success) Laettner did not have a credible argument when stacked up against Alcinder. Since Laettner is not close to Alcinder in most categories and even fails in his strongest suit (team success), he is not in anyone disinterested third party's discussion as a better college player than Alcinder.

[AHF]

I would put Alcinder in a list of greatest college players ever, but wouldn't call it a slam dunk. I don't know that you can pick one over the other in a list of the top ten and Laettner deserves consideration to be in such a group. One of the things you can't list in stats is his leadership and poise. Two things I never saw in Shaq in college and very little of in the NBA for that matter. Leadership and poise are things that people who saw him play will remember and people who only read about him later will never understand. Just like I can't really measure a Wilt or Bill Russell in their prime. I never saw Russell play and only saw Wilt in his later years.

Let me just add that if you never Shaq in college then you never followed college basketball in a meaninful way during Laettner's college career (and clearly if you never saw Shaq let alone Wilt in college, you never saw Alcinder either). If you are saying you can't measure someone because you weren't following the game at the time, I don't see how you can offer an opinion on Laettner by your own standard if you weren't watching the game closely enough to follow the guy who was regarded as the future #1 pick in Shaq.

I did follow college basketball closely at that time and have articulated my view on both who brought more to the Olympic team (i.e., the standard I think should have been applied to the Olympics rather than looking primarily at college resume) and on the issue of whether Laettner stacks up against the players who are in the discussion for best college player of all-time. [Let me add, that I would take Laettner for my college team if I was putting one together 10 out of 10 times but when you talk about leadership and poise you do have to note the lack of leadership and poise he showed during his NBA career when he was no longer enjoying a talent advantage, the leadership of Coach K, and the positive PR from Duke. He reminded no one of Peyton Manning during his 1-15 season with the Colts. This isn't to say he lacked those attributes, just that he might not be the posterchild in that department for a team that wasn't so successful whereas other players take their professionalism to every stage of frustration or success ala Manning].

[Endy9]

Let me just add that if you never Shaq in college then you never followed college basketball in a meaninful way during Laettner's college career (and clearly if you never saw Shaq let alone Wilt in college, you never saw Alcinder either). If you are saying you can't measure someone because you weren't following the game at the time, I don't see how you can offer an opinion on Laettner by your own standard if you weren't watching the game closely enough to follow the guy who was regarded as the future #1 pick in Shaq.

I did follow college basketball closely at that time and have articulated my view on both who brought more to the Olympic team (i.e., the standard I think should have been applied to the Olympics rather than looking primarily at college resume) and on the issue of whether Laettner stacks up against the players who are in the discussion for best college player of all-time. [Let me add, that I would take Laettner for my college team if I was putting one together 10 out of 10 times but when you talk about leadership and poise you do have to note the lack of leadership and poise he showed during his NBA career when he was no longer enjoying a talent advantage, the leadership of Coach K, and the positive PR from Duke. He reminded no one of Peyton Manning during his 1-15 season with the Colts. This isn't to say he lacked those attributes, just that he might not be the posterchild in that department for a team that wasn't so successful whereas other players take their professionalism to every stage of frustration or success ala Manning].

I never saw Shaq display leadership or poise. I saw him play many many times in his college career (and pro). I think we had a lack of communication there.

[Dsinner]

Which of those links argues he is the best player in college basketball hostory? None as far as I can see.

If you want to say that when some people talk about great college players that Laettner is discussed, I won't argue that. Some people argue Amare Stoudamire is one of the greatest players in the NBA today. No one argues Amare is the best. No one other than homers thinks Laettner was the greatest college player.

I mention Lew because he is the greatest college player ever. I could talk Bill Russell or other superior players as well, but to be in the conversation for greatest ever you have to arguably have been better than Lew.

Laettner is not in that conversation.

What? Each one of those links quoted word for word "Laettner is considered by many to be the greatest college basketball player ever." That's nearly word for word in each of those links (there are plenty more links I can post that quote the exact same line. What that means is that he is obviously in the conversation by many.

Some season facts from that year. I don't think Shaq or Zo were in the convo for these either...

Laettner won the 1992 USBWA Player Of The Year, AP Player Of The Year, Naismith Player Of The Year, Adolph F. Rupp Trophy, NABC Player Of The Year, and the Wooden Player Of The Year awards.

We rank an NBA players worth by what he does in the playoffs but regular season doesn't mean jack. Ask JJ about that. Here are a few "Playoff" facts about Laettners career...

NCAA Tournament Records Held: *Most points scored: 407 *Most free throws made: 142 *Most free throw attempts: 167 *Most games played: 23

Laettner is one of only four players (including teammates Greg Koubek and Brian Davis) to play in four consecutive NCAA Men's Division I Final Fours, and the only one to ever start in all four Final Fours. He owns the record for most tournament games played, which may never be beaten (to do so, someone would have to play in four straight Finals). This is an interesting point, considering that no player, not even Laettner himself, has played in four consecutive finals. His performance in the 1991 NCAA Tournment earned him the 1991 NCAA Tournment's Most Outstanding Player. He earned a place on the All-NCAA Tournament Team in 1991 and 1992.

AHF I respect you on here as much as one can be but you have some foggy UK goggles on if you don't think the unanimous player of the year didn't deserve to be the college player on that team. Should he have been over Nique? Absolutely not. Over Shaq and Zo? It's not even a discussion man. Their careers and year don't even register on the same map as his career, or more importantly for this thread, his year.

Edited September 4, 2010 by Dsinner

[AHF]

Name your criteria for greatest player ever and tell me why Laettner exceeds Alcinder. Every criteria you mention is one where Alcinder clearly excess Laettner.

As for the links, the first several I read said he was considered "one if the greatest" ever and some had lists where he was not in the top 5.

Give me the criteria by which Laettner exceeds Alcinder and why that is the most meaningful criteria.

Individual stats - Not close

Individual awards - Not close

Postseason success - Fewer MOPs and fewer championships. (I see you like to exclude his freshman year for career averages but include it for career totals, though). Not close to the best on per game postseason numbers.

Team success - Worse W/L; fewer chamionships

Great player? Absolutely.

Arguably better than Alcinder? Only if you are an absolute Duke homer

[Diesel]

Shaw doubled Laettner's rebounding, outscored Laettner and had more than 5 times as many blocks at a younger age. Laettner was a more mature player with a coach and system that was 10x better than what was at LSU. Does anyone really think if you switched their teams Duke wouldn't have been championship caliber with Hurley, Grant Hill and Shaq or that LSU would have been championship caliber with Laettner? Shaq was just more talented. I'll readily concede he didn't match up well with Laettner who was a more mobile and polished PF but had they faced off in a 7 game series there is no way Laettner could hold Shaq in check without a ton of help.

The Bottom line here is that Laettner was a product of the Duke system. Coack K doesn't build great pros. Think of all the guys who he has coached who didn't make it. I can only think of a few who did:

Brand, Maggette, and Hill. All three would have been great pros without going to Duke. Then you have your Hurley, Laettner, Ferry, JWilliams, SWilliams, Avery, Carrawell, Riddick, Battier, Wojo, Amaker, Duhon, etc. None of these guys were as great as their college legend would have lead you to believe that they were.

It's the system, It's not pro friendly.

[Dsinner]

Name your criteria for greatest player ever and tell me why Laettner exceeds Alcinder. Every criteria you mention is one where Alcinder clearly excess Laettner.

As for the links, the first several I read said he was considered "one if the greatest" ever and some had lists where he was not in the top 5.

Give me the criteria by which Laettner exceeds Alcinder and why that is the most meaningful criteria.

Individual stats - Not close

Individual awards - Not close

Postseason success - Fewer MOPs and fewer championships. (I see you like to exclude his freshman year for career averages but include it for career totals, though). Not close to the best on per game postseason numbers.

Team success - Worse W/L; fewer chamionships

Great player? Absolutely.

Arguably better than Alcinder? Only if you are an absolute Duke homer

Are you not even reading my posts? I NEVER said he was better than Kareem man. I'm pretty sure I even said Kareem was the better player in at least two of my posts. Please re-read a little more carefully. I'm simply saying he is in the discussion by MANY.

The Bottom line here is that Laettner was a product of the Duke system. Coack K doesn't build great pros. Think of all the guys who he has coached who didn't make it. I can only think of a few who did:

Brand, Maggette, and Hill. All three would have been great pros without going to Duke. Then you have your Hurley, Laettner, Ferry, JWilliams, SWilliams, Avery, Carrawell, Riddick, Battier, Wojo, Amaker, Duhon, etc. None of these guys were as great as their college legend would have lead you to believe that they were.

It's the system, It's not pro friendly.

Wrong thread man. Not the discussion. But, for the record, you can't say that the Duke system doesn't make good pros and then say they good pro's that came from duke had nothing to do with the system. That's an argument that might have meant something 10 years ago but is completely BS now. Old news, wrong thread.

Edited September 4, 2010 by Dsinner

[AHF]

I don't think the system at Duke hurts the pro careers of the players there. It has never been about Coach K ruining guys with great pro tools. It has always been about the hype setting the bar too high for hyped players without the tools to be stars whether at Duke, UK, or wherever.

On Alcinder/Laettner, if there is not a meaningful criteria by which Laettner was the better player then Laettner is not in the discussion. He is in the discussion of greatest college players but not the conversation of the[\u] greatest college player except to say "you can argue for x based on this or y based on that ... Laettner had a great career but here is where he falls short of the top guys."

[Diesel]

I don't think the system at Duke hurts the pro careers of the players there. It has never been about Coach K ruining guys with great pro tools. It has always been about the hype setting the bar too high for hyped players without the tools to be stars whether at Duke, UK, or wherever.

On Alcinder/Laettner, if there is not a meaningful criteria by which Laettner was the better player then Laettner is not in the discussion. He is in the discussion of greatest college players but not the conversation of the[\u] greatest college player except to say "you can argue for x based on this or y based on that ... Laettner had a great career but here is where he falls short of the top guys."

I have to disagree with you there.

Many times, college coaches prepare players for pro careers. They teach them the things that they would need to be good defenders, good offensive players, and good. I just don't see that jump in Duke players.

[lethalweapon3]

sooooo what was the thread question again?

~lw3

[Dsinner]

I don't think the system at Duke hurts the pro careers of the players there. It has never been about Coach K ruining guys with great pro tools. It has always been about the hype setting the bar too high for hyped players without the tools to be stars whether at Duke, UK, or wherever.

On Alcinder/Laettner, if there is not a meaningful criteria by which Laettner was the better player then Laettner is not in the discussion. He is in the discussion of greatest college players but not the conversation of the[\u] greatest college player except to say "you can argue for x based on this or y based on that ... Laettner had a great career but here is where he falls short of the top guys."

Why would I argue Laettner vs Alcinder when I agree? My point, the point you are arguing despite being shown PROOF otherwise, is that by many other people Laettner is indeed in the conversation. Maybe not by your criteria, maybe not by mine but by many is without a doubt (I've already linked you the proof to back that up) in the conversation. You're obviously not going to admit this since no one is better than Alcinder in your eyes but just remember not everyone else has the same basketball vision err goggles that you have.

[Dsinner]

I have to disagree with you there.

Many times, college coaches prepare players for pro careers. They teach them the things that they would need to be good defenders, good offensive players, and good. I just don't see that jump in Duke players.

In the 2009 season alone Duke had 14 guys in the leage. That was the most out of any ACC team (arguably the strongest basketball conference). Explain that please and that was just one season.

Jesus, Laettner (a loooong NBA career) Brand,Ferry, Boozer, Battier and HIll to name just a few and these are all Forwards which Duke is even further famous for not developing. Besides college systems are way over hyped when it comes to their determining a players development. Ask Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, LeBron James, Amare Stoudemire, and Dwight Howard if they fetl coach K would have prevented them from becoming the players they are. Wait, they didn't even go to college. Point being Duke is just as successful as any other school at producing NBA players. The problem is people expect every Duke player to be an NBA all-star. That simply doesn't happen in the real world.

To answer the other post, not sure what the other questions were but the point I was trying to make is that IF a college player had to be on the Dream Team,. Laettner was the deserving candidate. Which then turned into Laettner is considered by many to be the greatest college player ever. Those were the only two points I was making.

[Dsinner]

I have to disagree with you there.

Many times, college coaches prepare players for pro careers. They teach them the things that they would need to be good defenders, good offensive players, and good. I just don't see that jump in Duke players.

In the 2009 season alone Duke had 14 guys in the leage. That was the most out of any ACC team (arguably the strongest basketball conference). Explain that please and that was just one season.

Jesus, Laettner (a loooong NBA career) Brand,Ferry, Boozer, Battier and HIll to name just a few and these are all Forwards which Duke is even further famous for not developing. Besides college systems are way over hyped when it comes to their determining a players development. Ask Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, LeBron James, Amare Stoudemire, and Dwight Howard if they fetl coach K would have prevented them from becoming the players they are. Wait, they didn't even go to college. Point being Duke is just as successful as any other school at producing NBA players. The problem is people expect every Duke player to be an NBA all-star. That simply doesn't happen in the real world.

To answer the other post, not sure what the other questions were but the point I was trying to make is that IF a college player had to be on the Dream Team,. Laettner was the deserving candidate. Which then turned into Laettner is considered by many to be the greatest college player ever. Those were the only two points I was making.

[Diesel]

In the 2009 season alone Duke had 14 guys in the leage. That was the most out of any ACC team (arguably the strongest basketball conference). Explain that please and that was just one season.

Jesus, Laettner (a loooong NBA career) Brand,Ferry, Boozer, Battier and HIll to name just a few and these are all Forwards which Duke is even further famous for not developing. Besides college systems are way over hyped when it comes to their determining a players development. Ask Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, LeBron James, Amare Stoudemire, and Dwight Howard if they fetl coach K would have prevented them from becoming the players they are. Wait, they didn't even go to college. Point being Duke is just as successful as any other school at producing NBA players. The problem is people expect every Duke player to be an NBA all-star. That simply doesn't happen in the real world.

To answer the other post, not sure what the other questions were but the point I was trying to make is that IF a college player had to be on the Dream Team,. Laettner was the deserving candidate. Which then turned into Laettner is considered by many to be the greatest college player ever. Those were the only two points I was making.

Of those 14, how many of those have played worthy of their pick or their press?

Has Shelden played worthy of his pick?

How about Reddick (co-player of the year in college basketball)?

Uhm,,,Daniel Ewing?

Luol Deng playing like a 7th pick?

Most of the Duke players are players with good fundamentals who come off the bench because they lack the pro talent. They have been taught to play in a system and when they get to the pros, there is no system. You either have talent and can do anything or you don't, The only player who played all four years and was not systematized was Grant Hill. His father played a strong role in him developing though. The rest of these guys are bound to come off the bench as a specialty player. Since the days of Danny Ferry Duke has never been a college that you finished and came out as a star.

No Duke player from the last three decades has been a core player on an NBA titlist, and just four—Grant Hill, Christian Laettner, Elton Brand, and Carlos Boozer—have played in an NBA All-Star game.

Think of that List....

Elton Brand = Didn't finish at Duke and was a consistent street baller at the Ruck.

Carloz Boozer = Left Duke Early.

Grant Hill played all 4 years at duke but had his father's guidance towards becoming a star.

Christian Laettner probably rode the fame of Dream Team 1 to the Allstar game.

We had the ability to watch Shelden. You know what happened to Shelden? It wasn't that h couldn't.... it's that when he got to the pros, there was no Coach K constantly pushing him! Coach K pushes, motivates, and directs, but sometimes, you have to let a player find their own way. I think that's the failure in the systematization of Dukies. They become peices of Caoch K's chess board but when they get to the pros, they are expected to be able to move themselves. So yeah, coach K can fuss, cuss, and snort his players to wins, but when they leave, there's no pro coach that is going to baby them like that. In the words of Jim Rome, "It's a grown man's game!!"