Jamal Wants Out

[djyogi77]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5504907&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines

Jamal Crawford for Melo.

I like this idea. I think they should keep him on the team and Trade Marvin or Bibby or the combination of them to get younger or better guys. Prince would be a good trade.

[Crank]

Yeah he moves WITHOUT the ball but once he gets the ball the ball stops. Hence, the "motion" stops. Hence his being so good in an iso heavy offense. Hence why it is far from "rediculous." Look I like Craw, alot, but I still say his numbers go down if he has to pass tha ball after he recieves it. Not rocket science here.

Actually it doesnt stop and it didnt stop last year . We didnt isolate Crawford nearly as much as Joe in fact I would say that Crawford was our most effective pick and roll player . Considering last year Jamal was either spotting up for a jumpshot or running the high screen and roll with Al or Zaza the majority of time I dont get where people think we cleared out the side like we did for joe and let jamal go to work because that almost never happened.

Some of you have a twisted view of basketball. No matter what offense we ruin when the clock is running down the ball is gonna find its way into Joe or jamals hands its the way the league works. If you design an offense that doesnt get your best offensive players better and easier shots or FEWER shots then your offensive is a failure .

[djyogi77]

Yeah he moves WITHOUT the ball but once he gets the ball the ball stops. Hence, the "motion" stops. Hence his being so good in an iso heavy offense. Hence why it is far from "rediculous." Look I like Craw, alot, but I still say his numbers go down if he has to pass tha ball after he recieves it. Not rocket science here.

I agree with you man. I think also if they signed J.J. for about 90 Million. They could have kept Childress too, to address perimeter defensive problems and offensive boards. Oh well.......I definitely think Marvin is the 1st player of the core to be let go. Horford's presence on this team is not hard to quantify. The guy is a winner and a leader don't be fooled by his stats. The problem is he and Josh are truly playing the same position. Josh has more skills than Horford because of his athleticism and slighter frame. If Josh's shooting should improve a lot of these what if scenarios go away.

Actually it doesnt stop and it didnt stop last year . We didnt isolate Crawford nearly as much as Joe in fact I would say that Crawford was our most effective pick and roll player . Considering last year Jamal was either spotting up for a jumpshot or running the high screen and roll with Al or Zaza the majority of time I dont get where people think we cleared out the side like we did for joe and let jamal go to work because that almost never happened.

Some of you have a twisted view of basketball. No matter what offense we ruin when the clock is running down the ball is gonna find its way into Joe or jamals hands its the way the league works. If you design an offense that doesnt get your best offensive players better and easier shots or FEWER shots then your offensive is a failure .

I agree Joe and Jamal took a lot of tough shots last season. What I hope for the new offense is that it will keep interior defenses busy with their match ups. I hope to see more screen rolls to free up the perimeter players and get the bigs easy baskets as well

[tremor]

Actually it doesnt stop and it didnt stop last year . We didnt isolate Crawford nearly as much as Joe in fact I would say that Crawford was our most effective pick and roll player . Considering last year Jamal was either spotting up for a jumpshot or running the high screen and roll with Al or Zaza the majority of time I dont get where people think we cleared out the side like we did for joe and let jamal go to work because that almost never happened.

Actually JJ is one of the best (the best last season) in the league when shooting off the pick'n'roll situation.

[swanlee]

This sucks, so we were going to be pretty much the same team as last year, now we are pretty much going to be the same team from 2 years ago. Don't know what so many here dig on Jamal but we don't win 50 games without him last year.

[Anansi]

This sucks, so we were going to be pretty much the same team as last year, now we are pretty much going to be the same team from 2 years ago. Don't know what so many here dig on Jamal but we don't win 50 games without him last year.

Co-signed and on top of that the beat down we took from the Magic in the playoffs would of been even more epic as he did at least lead us in scoring against them.

[DJlaysitup]

This sucks, so we were going to be pretty much the same team as last year, now we are pretty much going to be the same team from 2 years ago. Don't know what so many here dig on Jamal but we don't win 50 games without him last year.

Everybody (with half a brain) has known what the Hawks management were planning this year. 'trade Craw at the deadline for a solid big'...Duh?

Drafting Craw Jr. was an epic tell. I'm sure Craw Sr. (or more than likely his agent) figured....need to be at a team where I'm more valuable..and have a new contract. Plus - we all know the Hawks ownership is tapped out. No way are they gonna offer a decent extension.

Craw is our only real playing card if we want a solid big - he knows that.

If I were Craw Sr.'s agent I would say to him to do exactly this. Strike when the iron is hot. Get yourself a combo trade and new contract. I would guess Craw is worth $30M for 3 years to a few teams.

[DJlaysitup]

If we trade for Melo, an extension is a must.

Yep supe...Bingo....it would have to be built into the deal...that's why it won't happen.:kickcan:

[jerrywest]

Everybody (with half a brain) has known what the Hawks management were planning this year. 'trade Craw at the deadline for a solid big'...Duh?

With less than half a brain working, I think, Hawks need an expiring deal to sign Horford without going over the luxury threashold next summer. If we had a regular owner, we would have cashed in for JC1. ASG are too cheap to risk going over the lux. With our big positions stacked with our version of the 3 super amigos (Powel, Thomas and Collins), Craw might be more valuable for the 2nd half of the season than just about any other expiring marginal big man.

[DJlaysitup]

With our big positions stacked with our version of the 3 super amigos (Powel, Thomas and Collins),

Obviously you are being sarcastic JW...it took me a few minutes to figure it out though. :thumbsupsmileyanim:

[Diesel]

Everybody (with half a brain) has known what the Hawks management were planning this year. 'trade Craw at the deadline for a solid big'...Duh?

Drafting Craw Jr. was an epic tell. I'm sure Craw Sr. (or more than likely his agent) figured....need to be at a team where I'm more valuable..and have a new contract. Plus - we all know the Hawks ownership is tapped out. No way are they gonna offer a decent extension.

Craw is our only real playing card if we want a solid big - he knows that.

If I were Craw Sr.'s agent I would say to him to do exactly this. Strike when the iron is hot. Get yourself a combo trade and new contract. I would guess Craw is worth $30M for 3 years to a few teams.

No disrespect but I love how people automatically assume that just because we drafted JC2, that he's going to be good or great. This kid hasn't played a qtr of real bball and some of us have him replacing a near allstar??

[DJlaysitup]

No disrespect but I love how people automatically assume that just because we drafted JC2, that he's going to be good or great. This kid hasn't played a qtr of real bball and some of us have him replacing a near allstar??

Very good point D but I'm just thinking it was a bit of a "tell" on the part of management. If you are running a cash-strapped team and you need a big to compete - you look at it logically. Can't get a real big at that place in the draft. Get your best replacement for your #1 trade-able asset. Teams will be wanting firepower around the deadline.

P.S. - you sell your second round pick for basically your first round pick's salary. Free Craw Jr. Then you cross your fingers.

Edited August 30, 2010 by DJlaysitup

[MaceCase]

This sucks, so we were going to be pretty much the same team as last year, now we are pretty much going to be the same team from 2 years ago. Don't know what so many here dig on Jamal but we don't win 50 games without him last year.

You know, 2 years ago this team won 47 games with Josh and Al missing 22 games between them. Us winning 50+ plus games is as much if not more indicative of them being healthy than just Jamal's presence.

[AHF]

I told you all I was right! I brought this up about 3 weeks ago when I saw Sekou Smith at a Kroger store by my house and he told me it was going to happen. trade him for a center and lets move on

Kudos on that. We should not limit our options by extending him now.

[jerrywest]

a little more revealing article in Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2010/08/hawks_crawford.html

But he wouldn't comment on even playing for the Hawks in 2010-11. "I don't want to talk about next season," he said.

When asked if he was prepared to potentially leave Atlanta for a fifth NBA team, he said, "All I wanted to do is be growing up is in the NBA. If I am in the NBA, I am fine. I feel like I have a lot of basketball left. I can play at a high level for a long time. The best is yet to come for me."

[swanlee]

You know, 2 years ago this team won 47 games with Josh and Al missing 22 games between them. Us winning 50+ plus games is as much if not more indicative of them being healthy than just Jamal's presence.

Did you even watch us last year? We probably only win 42-45 games at most without Crawford. The only good thing is we wouldn't have even made ti to the playoff to watch us get killed by Orlando. Give him his extension, I rather doubt we would get a good big man from anyone for crawford and crawford is pretty valuable to THIS team.

[Diesel]

Very good point D but I'm just thinking it was a bit of a "tell" on the part of management. If you are running a cash-strapped team and you need a big to compete - you look at it logically. Can't get a real big at that place in the draft. Get your best replacement for your #1 trade-able asset. Teams will be wanting firepower around the deadline.

P.S. - you sell your second round pick for basically your first round pick's salary. Free Craw Jr. Then you cross your fingers.

I don't disagree with the thinking of replacing an outgoing asset.. like JJ was. However, I don't think we were looking to draft a big. It's not an exact science and it fails more times than it succeeds.

[MaceCase]

Did you even watch us last year? We probably only win 42-45 games at most without Crawford. The only good thing is we wouldn't have even made ti to the playoff to watch us get killed by Orlando. Give him his extension, I rather doubt we would get a good big man from anyone for crawford and crawford is pretty valuable to THIS team.

No, I clearly did not watch the team last year or the year before when Flip was keeping the team afloat when Josh and Al was out.

[Dsinner]

Actually it doesnt stop and it didnt stop last year . We didnt isolate Crawford nearly as much as Joe in fact I would say that Crawford was our most effective pick and roll player . Considering last year Jamal was either spotting up for a jumpshot or running the high screen and roll with Al or Zaza the majority of time I dont get where people think we cleared out the side like we did for joe and let jamal go to work because that almost never happened.

Some of you have a twisted view of basketball. No matter what offense we ruin when the clock is running down the ball is gonna find its way into Joe or jamals hands its the way the league works. If you design an offense that doesnt get your best offensive players better and easier shots or FEWER shots then your offensive is a failure .

Nearly everyone of Craws shots was with a hand in his face. You have a twisted view of the hawks if you saw ANY ball movement whatsoever. It wasn't that we had JJ isolating and only JJ. That's the only type of offense WE had period. Basically what you're talling me is that we only called ISO's when JJ was in but when Craw was in we magically had some sort of ball movement that still ended up with Craw having the ball at the end of the clock.. Really?

[Crank]

Nearly everyone of Craws shots was with a hand in his face. You have a twisted view of the hawks if you saw ANY ball movement whatsoever. It wasn't that we had JJ isolating and only JJ. That's the only type of offense WE had period. Basically what you're talling me is that we only called ISO's when JJ was in but when Craw was in we magically had some sort of ball movement that still ended up with Craw having the ball at the end of the clock.. Really?

Obviously you dont understand what an isolation actually is ?

When Craw came in the game we didnt clear out the side for him while he tried to take his man one on one . We hardly ever did that even at the start of teh season but as the season went on when Craw would come into the game we would go to a high screen and roll game where he would take the screen and either take the midrange jumpshot ,drive to the basket for a floater ,or dump it to either Zaza,Joe smith, or Al . The majority of Crawords other points came from transition or spotup threes from the corners hence him making the 7th most threes in the league.

Crawford can certainly take his man one on one but last year he probably got to do that 2-3 times a game the rest he was either in transition in the screen roll or spotting up for threes .

We had plenty of ball movement but our offense often stagnated in the 4th quarter but we were 11th in the league in assists in the league as a team so please dont feed me the we didnt move the ball. We did move the ball we just have to do it better and more consistently in the 4th quarter .

Some of you have never followed the nba if you think that for one second that no matter what kinda offense we run that the ball is not gonna end up in Joes or Craws hand in the 4th quarter . Any offense that doesnt get the ball to your best players in the 4th in the nba is doomed from the start . We just have to do a better job of creating easier baskets for the guys instead of relying on Joe and sometimes Crawford to do it all themselves .