NBA must stop this BS!

[T21]

... LeBron... Melo... Deron... Dwight... Who's gonna be next!!!???

I truly believe that this negative trend must be stopped and dealt with in a proper manner!

...I'm just sick and tired of these over paid (that's an understatement) cry-baby egoists who stumble at the first hurdle, give up, blame and accuse everyone else for the lack of results and want to go to so-called promise-lands, perfect situations, big markets!

C'mon! It's becoming a culture!

Basketball (NBA) was, is and always will be one of the greatest sports! No one individual is greater than the sport! Greatest stars were the biggest fans of this game (Nique, MJ, Larry, Magic...)... and they made it only for these bloodsuckers to ruin everything! If it was not for the true fans... well... this game wouldn't be around at all...

Remember that Nique, Barkley, Malone & Stockton, Ewing... never won the whole thing, but that didn't make them give up on their teams, cities, fans... It took MJ like 7 or 8 years...

These kids should come to the ground!

The way things are shaping up... we'll have a league comprised of Knicks, Celtics, Heat, Bulls and Lakers!

BTW, I'm not sayin' all players are the same, and that they're the only ones to blame... but this is getting out of hand!

:thumbsdownsmileyanim:

P.S. Honestly... if someone offered me LBJ and Bosh to our Hawks before the start of the season... I would have gladly refuse the offer! I'd rather stick with what we've got and see this team grow...

Edited February 7, 2011 by T21

[NineOhTheRino]

simmer down T21..Last I checked this is America. A man has a right to seek work wherever he can get it.

I've interviewed for other jobs while working at the old one. If Melo, Bron or any athlete wants out that's their right and their business.

Now from a Hawks fan perceptive I hate it but...

It will all work itself out on the court. If a defenseless NY Knicks team thinks it can beat the Hawks in a 7-game series I call bs. Hawks would rip the Knicks with Melo to pieces in 5 games. Yep.. mark that down an put your house up in Vegas on that baby!

Edited February 7, 2011 by NineOhTheRino

[Joker]

... LeBron... Melo... Deron... Dwight... Who's gonna be next!!!???

I truly believe that this negative trend must be stopped and dealt with in a proper manner!

...I'm just sick and tired of these over paid (that's an understatement) cry-baby egoists who stumble at the first hurdle, give up, blame and accuse everyone else for the lack of results and want to go to so-called promise-lands, perfect situations, big markets!

C'mon! It's becoming a culture!

Basketball (NBA) was, is and always will be one of the greatest sports! No one individual is greater than the sport! Greatest stars were the biggest fans of this game (Nique, MJ, Larry, Magic...)... and they made it only for these bloodsuckers to ruin everything! If it was not for the true fans... well... this game wouldn't be around at all...

Remember that Nique, Barkley, Malone & Stockton, Ewing... never won the whole thing, but that didn't make them give up on their teams, cities, fans... It took MJ like 7 or 8 years...

These kids should come to the ground!

The way things are shaping up... we'll have a league comprised of Knicks, Celtics, Heat, Bulls and Lakers!

BTW, I'm not sayin' all players are the same, and that they're the only ones to blame... but this is getting out of hand!

:thumbsdownsmileyanim:

P.S. Honestly... if someone offered me LBJ and Bosh to our Hawks before the start of the season... I would have gladly refuse the offer! I'd rather stick with what we've got and see this team grow...

With scouting being better and there being more elite players with mediocre talent around them, they have trades. Look at Barkley, Philly wasn't good, left and took Phx to the Finals. T-Mac left too. It's nothing unusual, it's just that the best NBA player did it and everyone is up in arms. If you want to keep great talent, win and get great talent around them.

Edited February 7, 2011 by nbasuperstar40

[Admin]

I agree and am getting a little sick of these "super" teams as well. I've heard a lot of the games greatest players from the past talking about this and how they'd NEVER want to team up with the other great players to form a super team, how they were driven by trying to BEAT those guys, not to join up with them. I really feel for the smaller market teams who don't have owners with incredibly deep pockets that just cannot compete against teams like the Knicks who can afford to be $30 million over the luxury tax with a borderline or worse playoff team year after year.

[T21]

With scouting being better and there being more elite players with mediocre talent around them, they have trades. Look at Barkley, Philly wasn't good, left and took Phx to the Finals. T-Mac left too. It's nothing unusual, it's just that the best NBA player did it and everyone is up in arms. If you want to keep great talent, win and get great talent around them.

... Sir Charles left after almost 10 years... and PHX gave Philly 3 very good players (Horny, Lang, Perry).

I agree that if you want to win you need to assemble great talents... but these kids don't even try...

P.S. That's why Knicks are stayin' pat, knowin' that they will have Melo without subtracting any talent of their own, or Draft picks...

[T21]

simmer down T21..Last I checked this is America. A man has a right to seek work wherever he can get it.

I've interviewed for other jobs while working at the old one. If Melo, Bron or any athlete wants out that's their right and their business.

Now from a Hawks fan perceptive I hate it but...

It will all work itself out on the court. If a defenseless NY Knicks team thinks it can beat the Hawks in a 7-game series I call bs. Hawks would rip the Knicks with Melo to pieces in 5 games. Yep.. mark that down an put your house up in Vegas on that baby!

Don't get me wrong... I don't mind free market... and I've done the same things as you. Sure, everybody has the right to do what's the best for them ... but my friend, we're not talking about starving people in Africa and unfortunately we don't receive pay checks these guys do...

What I'm tryin' to say is that as long there's a fair deal in place (sounds like old US of A) it's fine by me... but as I said Knicks will get Melo for nothing, that's why they're not interested in a trade... they know he's coming one way or the other.

P.S. I agree with you that we'd have an upper hand on Knicks... even with Melo...

Edited February 7, 2011 by T21

[Joker]

... Sir Charles left after almost 10 years... and PHX gave Philly 3 very good players (Horny, Lang, Perry).

I agree that if you want to win you need to assemble great talents... but these kids don't even try...

P.S. That's why Knicks are stayin' pat, knowin' that they will have Melo without subtracting any talent of their own, or Draft picks...

I agree but what about KAJ. I guess every case is different but all these players want to leave a legacy. The Knicks were hoping to sign Joe, Amare, and Melo. Ended up with Amare and Melo. I hope the Hawks can take a bite out of Utah or New Orleans. Or Steve Nash has a change of heart about staying in Phx.

Edited February 7, 2011 by nbasuperstar40

[AHF]

I hope the next collective bargaining agreement shifts more of the leverage to management with star players because - as a fan - I like watching stars build with the team that is their identity rather than this escalating trend of speculation that Deron Williams is leaving Utah, Carmelo is leaving Denver, CP3 is buying time to leave NO, etc.

It makes Kevin Durant all the more likeable for me.

I hope to see either greater differences in what the "home" team can offer (now the incumbent team can offer a bit more money and one more year on a contract if they have bird rights) or a franchise tag for each team that would guarantee premium money to the athlete but gives team the leverage to keep their franchise players. I think in the long-run that makes for a healthier league, a better product, and more money for both the owners and players.

[Joker]

I hope the next collective bargaining agreement shifts more of the leverage to management with star players because - as a fan - I like watching stars build with the team that is their identity rather than this escalating trend of speculation that Deron Williams is leaving Utah, Carmelo is leaving Denver, CP3 is buying time to leave NO, etc.

It makes Kevin Durant all the more likeable for me.

I hope to see either greater differences in what the "home" team can offer (now the incumbent team can offer a bit more money and one more year on a contract if they have bird rights) or a franchise tag for each team that would guarantee premium money to the athlete but gives team the leverage to keep their franchise players. I think in the long-run that makes for a healthier league, a better product, and more money for both the owners and players.

NO doesn't have the interest to draw a key player. Plus Durant has Westbrook. I am sure if CP3 had Horford he would never leave NO. Or if Melo had Joe he wouldn't either. MJ might have left Chicago if Pippen wasn't there. Hakeem was in the largest pop of Nigerians, so he was more at home in Houston than anywhere else. How can you build a team when the cap is too tight. Not everyone is LA. You have to win in the draft but you can't get a top 5 pick unless you suck and if you got an elite player, that's impossible. Why should players stay there if the team can't really beat the best or try to get the best talent because no one is trying to trade you Kevin Love for free. The problem is, it's too hard to get a great player with another great player. Look at Orlando. Atlanta is one of the few teams with three great players, just not an elite one. The reason they want to lower salary is so every team can contend but there just aren't enough game changers in the NBA. That's the issue. Lebron was there for 6 years for crying out loud. That's a long time and look at the best the roster has been. They could have keep him but didn't go for Joe Johnson or resign Boozer back. They had Boozer rights and could have signed him a year later but wanted to be cheap and now look that them. There basically finished. There is no one who can carry them in this draft. I think players should be able to leave UFA after their rookie contract.

[Wretch]

I think my biggest problem is the attitude. Free agents have always gravitated towards big markets and winning programs. Melo to NY doesn't bother me so much because honestly, I think he's excited to have an opportunity to represent NY/NJ. I understand that 100%... I daydreamed of playing for the Hawks up until I graduated High School.

But the attitude of those guys in Miami... I think that should be discouraged as well as all the plotting/scheming, etc. Guys like LeBron need their own team. I really hate that he's down there with Wade. I will never look at him the same. Very good player, but I would have much rather seen him in Chicago or NY (I really wanted him in NY, the NBA isn't the same without a good team there). And you could just see the attitude in all their faces...like they had already won.

In the interest in parity and small markets, I think something should be done too about teams stockpiling talent - taking paycuts, tampering, and whatnot. It's just so cheezy.

I hope the next collective bargaining agreement shifts more of the leverage to management with star players because - as a fan - I like watching stars build with the team that is their identity rather than this escalating trend of speculation that Deron Williams is leaving Utah, Carmelo is leaving Denver, CP3 is buying time to leave NO, etc.

It makes Kevin Durant all the more likeable for me.

I hope to see either greater differences in what the "home" team can offer (now the incumbent team can offer a bit more money and one more year on a contract if they have bird rights) or a franchise tag for each team that would guarantee premium money to the athlete but gives team the leverage to keep their franchise players. I think in the long-run that makes for a healthier league, a better product, and more money for both the owners and players.

Amen to that AHF.

[Joker]

I think my biggest problem is the attitude. Free agents have always gravitated towards big markets and winning programs. Melo to NY doesn't bother me so much because honestly, I think he's excited to have an opportunity to represent NY/NJ. I understand that 100%... I daydreamed of playing for the Hawks up until I graduated High School.

But the attitude of those guys in Miami... I think that should be discouraged as well as all the plotting/scheming, etc. Guys like LeBron need their own team. I really hate that he's down there with Wade. I will never look at him the same. Very good player, but I would have much rather seen him in Chicago or NY (I really wanted him in NY, the NBA isn't the same without a good team there). And you could just see the attitude in all their faces...like they had already won.

In the interest in parity and small markets, I think something should be done too about teams stockpiling talent - taking paycuts, tampering, and whatnot. It's just so cheezy.

Amen to that AHF.

The Lakers did the same thing with KAJ and Magic and no ill words. Miami not even that good. Just three great players and a bunch of scrubs. It's not like their LAL in the 80's who was deep and talented at every position with two top 10 players of all time. It doesn't bother me. What bothers me is LAL and the Gasol deal. That bother me. This Melo deal isn't so bad because he only wants to play in NY so oh well, as long as they don't get Dwight, CP3, or Melo, I am cool with it. I am pretty sure no one here would be complaining if we landed Wade or James. The NBA has never been fair, one player means too much and it limits teams potential. I still like our chances, just v. certain teams.

[Admin]

... Sir Charles left after almost 10 years... and PHX gave Philly 3 very good players (Horny, Lang, Perry).

Who is that, Wilt Chamberlain??

[Joker]

Who is that, Wilt Chamberlain??

Hornacek who was only there for a half a season. He was there as long as Bob Sura.

[T21]

Who is that, Wilt Chamberlain??

That's a good one!

:go ahead:

[Admin]

Hornacek who was only there for a half a season. He was there as long as Bob Sura.

Ahh I was thinking that was a typo and was supposed to be Horry ... oh well it provided a laugh for me :)

[capstone21]

I don't like these super teams either. However, one drawback about the super teams is that they don't have players to surround them. Miami has the worst bench and the worst starting center and pg in the league. These teams will not be able to afford to get other players to surround their guys. So a lot of the other teams will not have the super stars but they will be deeper and could potentially expose the super teams weaknesses.

[AHF]

I am sure if CP3 had Horford he would never leave NO. Or if Melo had Joe he wouldn't either.

I think that is wishful thinking. How far apart are Nene and Horford's numbers this year, for example? The idea that a market like NO can keep a superstar with a wandering eye - which seems to be becoming the norm - is a stretch for me. Shaq left Orlando with a talented supporting cast (Penny, Ho Grant, 3D, etc.).

MJ might have left Chicago if Pippen wasn't there.

Why would that have made the league better for fans? Not sure where you are going with the Hakeem reference.

Why should players stay there if the team can't really beat the best or try to get the best talent because no one is trying to trade you Kevin Love for free. The problem is, it's too hard to get a great player with another great player. Look at Orlando. Atlanta is one of the few teams with three great players, just not an elite one. The reason they want to lower salary is so every team can contend but there just aren't enough game changers in the NBA. That's the issue.

That is all fine, but I don't think it addresses the issue of what makes the league the most entertaining for fans which is where I am coming from. To me, teams being able to keep their best players makes the league more entertaining.

Lebron was there for 6 years for crying out loud. That's a long time and look at the best the roster has been. They could have keep him but didn't go for Joe Johnson or resign Boozer back. They had Boozer rights and could have signed him a year later but wanted to be cheap and now look that them. There basically finished. There is no one who can carry them in this draft. I think players should be able to leave UFA after their rookie contract.

Of course, Cleveland is basically finished with Boozer screwing them over royally, their making a play for Larry Hughes (wrong guy), and them losing their best players from last season's team (i.e., Lebron, Shaq, Varajao) and dealing with a variety of injuries to their already depleted roster (Mo Williams, etc.). I think it is tough to argue they wouldn't be in the hunt this season if Lebron hadn't ditched them given that they have averaged over 55 wins the last 4 seasons with appearances in the NBA finals and EC finals. Instead, Lebron left they hanging in the wind and unable to execute any alternative plan and then bagged them on national television - screwing over both the team's ability to rebuild as well as the morale of the fan base.

Cleveland's issue wasn't spending money. It was doing everything it could to try to appease Lebron - which led them to make some bad basketball moves to try to keep him like acquiring Antawn Jamison and Shaq. If Lebron wanted it, he got it in Cleveland. It just wasn't enough when he had been planning to ditch Cleveland for a "superteam" with Bosh and Wade for some time.

At a minimum, the NBA should start tightening the collusion rules so they apply to players under contract not being allowed to collude on those types of plans with someone else's player under contract.

[Wretch]

The Lakers did the same thing with KAJ and Magic and no ill words. Miami not even that good. Just three great players and a bunch of scrubs. It's not like their LAL in the 80's who was deep and talented at every position with two top 10 players of all time. It doesn't bother me. What bothers me is LAL and the Gasol deal. That bother me. This Melo deal isn't so bad because he only wants to play in NY so oh well, as long as they don't get Dwight, CP3, or Melo, I am cool with it. I am pretty sure no one here would be complaining if we landed Wade or James. The NBA has never been fair, one player means too much and it limits teams potential. I still like our chances, just v. certain teams.

There has never been anything like what Miami did.

The Lakers drafted that team YEARS after they acquired Kareem. That's a little different from clearing out all of your players (except your ALL PRO), dumping a franchise draft pick, and signing 2 top tier free agents - one of which taking a paycut just to complete the silliness. If we're draw similarities to the Lakers, then liken it to Gary Payton and Karl Malone jumping on Kobe and Shaq's coattail. Even then, both players were well out of their prime and neither had any interest in becoming the central figure in the Lakers offense (especially GP who couldn't adapt).

As for the Gasol deal...not in the same category either. Memphis dumped salary and is trying to rebuild. Not at all different than us dumping Shareef & Ratliff for Rasheed that we had no intentions on keeping...OR us dumping Rasheed on Detroit for a late 1st. All of that is just business as usual in pro sports.

This Miami BS is an all new thing. Players thinking they can just form megateams to steamroll to a title. There was no salary dumping, both teams benefiting. There was no trade. This was a team with an identity already in place. It was Wade's team. Adding Bosh STILL made that Wade's team all day long and they still would have had Beasley.

But these guys go out and max Bosh, then slide LBJ in on a *wink*wink* paycut and then DUMP a player like Beas to do it. This is something different, it's just downright cheezy, and should most definitely be discouraged. Unless teams start trying to copy the model and we'll have 4-5 mega teams in the NBA.

Most of the guys who played look down on this whole thing and agree.

It's BS. Legal BS, but it stinks all the same.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Wretch

[Joker]

I think that is wishful thinking. How far apart are Nene and Horford's numbers this year, for example? The idea that a market like NO can keep a superstar with a wandering eye - which seems to be becoming the norm - is a stretch for me. Shaq left Orlando with a talented supporting cast (Penny, Ho Grant, 3D, etc.).

Why would that have made the league better for fans? Not sure where you are going with the Hakeem reference.

That is all fine, but I don't think it addresses the issue of what makes the league the most entertaining for fans which is where I am coming from. To me, teams being able to keep their best players makes the league more entertaining.

Of course, Cleveland is basically finished with Boozer screwing them over royally, their making a play for Larry Hughes (wrong guy), and them losing their best players from last season's team (i.e., Lebron, Shaq, Varajao) and dealing with a variety of injuries to their already depleted roster (Mo Williams, etc.). I think it is tough to argue they wouldn't be in the hunt this season if Lebron hadn't ditched them given that they have averaged over 55 wins the last 4 seasons with appearances in the NBA finals and EC finals. Instead, Lebron left they hanging in the wind and unable to execute any alternative plan and then bagged them on national television - screwing over both the team's ability to rebuild as well as the morale of the fan base.

Cleveland's issue wasn't spending money. It was doing everything it could to try to appease Lebron - which led them to make some bad basketball moves to try to keep him like acquiring Antawn Jamison and Shaq. If Lebron wanted it, he got it in Cleveland. It just wasn't enough when he had been planning to ditch Cleveland for a "superteam" with Bosh and Wade for some time.

At a minimum, the NBA should start tightening the collusion rules so they apply to players under contract not being allowed to collude on those types of plans with someone else's player under contract.

Horford is much better than Nene. This is like the Steph Curry 2.0 stuff again right. Horford would be a superstar with CP3, no question about it.

I agree about the collusion, that's really making me mad. There was always some going on but now it's out of hand but in reality, I think the internet just make it more notable. Cleveland wanted to keep Boozer. Didn't happen. Don't say they got screwed, they were being cheap and it bit them in the *ss. Lebron wanted Joe or Redd and ended up with Hughes. The rest of Cleveland decisions were acting in a manner like Orlando is currently doing, limited but they have to do something.

I could care less about entertainment, I talk to these players and they have good reasoning and this moving team stuff isn't unusual but a lot of these players lack loyalty but these teams do to. So I don't have an issue with it. The NBA do what they can, they put in place where teams have better rights than other teams on the market. Look at the Hawks and Joe Johnson. He would be a Knick right now if it wasn't for his Bird Rights. Cleveland have the same rights but Lebron left for Miami for less money.

[Joker]

There has never been anything like what Miami did.

The Lakers drafted that team YEARS after they acquired Kareem. That's a little different from clearing out all of your players (except your ALL PRO), dumping a franchise draft pick, and signing 2 top tier free agents - one of which taking a paycut just to complete the silliness. If we're draw similarities to the Lakers, then liken it to Gary Payton and Karl Malone jumping on Kobe and Shaq's coattail. Even then, both players were well out of their prime and neither had any interest in becoming the central figure in the Lakers offense (especially GP who couldn't adapt).

As for the Gasol deal...not in the same category either. Memphis dumped salary and is trying to rebuild. Not at all different than us dumping Shareef & Ratliff for Rasheed that we had no intentions on keeping...OR us dumping Rasheed on Detroit for a late 1st. All of that is just business as usual in pro sports.

This Miami BS is an all new thing. Players thinking they can just form megateams to steamroll to a title. There was no salary dumping, both teams benefiting. There was no trade. This was a team with an identity already in place. It was Wade's team. Adding Bosh STILL made that Wade's team all day long and they still would have had Beasley.

But these guys go out and max Bosh, then slide LBJ in on a *wink*wink* paycut and then DUMP a player like Beas to do it. This is something different, it's just downright cheezy, and should most definitely be discouraged. Unless teams start trying to copy the model and we'll have 4-5 mega teams in the NBA.

Most of the guys who played look down on this whole thing and agree.

It's BS. Legal BS, but it stinks all the same.

I see your point on the Lakers but the Heat thing just didn't bother me much.

As for the Gasol trade, come on, a bunch of teams could have gave you a young talent and an expiring for Gasol. It's worked out as Marc is good but before that deal was an albatross.

I think their was some collusion but there was legit thoughts that Wade could go to Chicago and Bosh to LA or Cleveland. I agree that it looks pretty bad.

There is a lot of illegal and unfair crap in sports, I don't like it but players need to have to right to leave or else don't cut guys like Etan Thomas. What about them? It's only for guys like Lebron? That's my issue. You guys have no issues trading Smoove but have an issue with Lebron leaving. That's what I am talking about. You can stand proud and then want your team to trade someone. Keep everyone on this team together, it's fair. Joe didn't take less money, what's the issue?